R&R-Viking

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1281458770' post='2409804'] Defending yourself against a spy attack makes you a rogue? Maybe I should spy your defcon. Then when you attack me, you'll be a rogue. Right? [/quote] If he's unaligned when you do it, yeah, that would make him a rogue. If you do it to him while he has the AA he has, I'll enjoy coming out of peace mode.

[quote name='Matt Miller' timestamp='1281457398' post='2409776'] Though we seem to disagree on several things, I must say that I'm impressed with your honesty. Most people that think along the lines which you do would be afraid to say so on the OWF. [/quote] I'm honest to a fault. I'm sure I've given government members fits before and I'm sure I will again, but there's no reason to hide my personal feelings on these issues, especially when people try painting me into a position I don't hold. I'm not a Karma shill, and I didn't necessarily hate the Hegemony, it just happened that the Hegemony did what they did to my friends and I and as such I didn't endorse them. If I get to participate in some retribution, I'm not too proud to do so. Besides, I've yet to meet a person on Planet Bob that intimidates me, because I view the citizens of my nation as dirt and I don't particularly care if they get bombed to death. What do I have to be afraid of?

[quote name='Matt Miller' timestamp='1281455938' post='2409737']I never said NSO was clean here, they screwed up to. I'm just saying taking this to all out war wreaks of warmongering. I thought the entire basis of the Karma war and everything post that time was to end that sort of behavior. I don't think that was hyperbole, it's a good comparison as far as I'm concerned. You are justifiably allowed to disagree.[/quote] Remember all the inter-Karma drama during that war? Yeah, that was because a fair number of people within Karma did not agree with the peacenik message that was being sent. You would do well to remember that the next time you want to trot Karma out as a point of reference. To people like me, what you say linking us to Karma is irrelevant, because people like me weren't necessarily supporters of Karma like you think we were.

[quote name='Qazzian' timestamp='1281456011' post='2409741'] If someone launched spy attacks against one of your alliance mates, you would consider that an act of war. Adzz spied on Sedrick, Sedrick responded to an act of war. If there are no other spy ops prior to the one launched by Adzz, then that doesn't make Sedrick a rogue, since he's responding to hostile action. If there is proof of something before, that may change things. But right now, the public information is Adzz spied, Sedrick responded. [/quote] While he was unaligned/being rejected by MHA. If you're interested in facts, surely that point can't be forgotten.

[quote name='CptGodzilla' timestamp='1281454365' post='2409703'] hahaha, it was rather funny. also good luck GOD. [/quote] it was plural, because one just wasn't enough

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1281454259' post='2409698'] Uh, a screenshot of the rogue's warscreen has been posted multiple times, or you can go look up Sedrick in game and see the aggressive wars from unaligned status yourself. There is no doubt as to the material facts of the case. [/quote] This right here. Whatever happened before he "joined" NSO is irrelevant, because NSO wasn't involved at that point. To act concerned about facts now, instead of pre-admission like every other alliance, is incredibly selfish and dumb.

[quote name='Matt Miller' timestamp='1281451817' post='2409651'] You make a very good point here and quite a valid comparison between The Hegemony behavior of ~2 years ago that was so heavily demonized and the current behavior of Rok and their supporters like you. Thank you for mentioning it here. [/quote] I don't believe I've ever demonized the Hegemony outside of trying to get you all to stop subjugating me or my alliance. If I can watch as the same happens to you, that's great and I'm happy. If I could put a Viceroy to IRON right now I'd do it, because you guys treated R&R like crap under my watch to the point of calling us a cancer, and I have a bone to pick. One of us here is a hypocrite, and it's not me.

[quote name='Matt Miller' timestamp='1281451183' post='2409634'] The real truth here is not that the 6 million is a big deal. It's really about Hoo feeling more important than everyone and attacking NSO with several other alliances because he can. Oh and Heft dared not take Hoo's word for the holy gospel of Admin. Hoo doesn't need to produce evidence, his word is law... [/quote] You guys never needed evidence, why need it now? 'Cause you're outside looking in?

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1281409032' post='2408928'] oh how they talk tough when the odds are in their favor. [/quote] I talked like this when \m/ was beating down my alliance in GWIII. Try again. Why don't you go ask some old time R&R'ers how I handled negotiations with Philo back then.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281406225' post='2408880'] I don't know, I'm not privy to the internal workings of NSO. But what I can tell you is that it's no incriminating act once NSO realized that RoK had no will to discuss a peaceful solution to a simple problem. [/quote] It's not an incriminating act, no, peace mode is a valid tactic. I should know, I'm in it. However, if Heft ordered them in after he had the aid sent, then that goes along with the "Rogue Heft" line of thinking. If another member of the NSO government did it, well, that shows maybe this wasn't just Heft's problem, and he's been made into a convenient scapegoat. [quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1281427146' post='2409337'] So where did Hoo provide the evidence? Thats right. [/quote] The guy had active aggressive wars before he joined NSO. If NSO is worried about what happened before those wars, why didn't they get to the bottom of the situation [i][b]BEFORE[/b][/i] they let him join?

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281404109' post='2408810'] You are misrepresenting my position. I am not saying that Heft did not commit transgressions against RoK. No matter how bad what Heft did was, the fact is that [i]those superior to Heft immediately sought to resolve the issue.[/i] RoK ignored this. Because RoK ignored this, they are in the wrong. It has nothing to do with Heft being warned, Heft sending aid, Heft nuking RoK nations, Heft threatening to disband RoK, or whatever other real or imagined wrongs Heft might have done. Those in charge of NSO, those in a position superior to that of Heft, did not approve of Heft's actions and sought a resolution with RoK for the transgressions committed by Heft. RoK refused to hear what NSO had to say and instead wrongly pinned Heft's actions on NSO, when NSO clearly disagreed with the acts. RoK is clearly the aggressor in this.[/quote] So did Heft order the nations of NSO into peace or did someone else?

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1281400213' post='2408709'] of course the counter-argument is that even if RoK doesn't have 134 members online, neither does NSO. in reality it's an even race between the aggressor and the defender, with the advantage going to the alliance with more members (even with a lower turnout percentage-wise, they can still get more nations to attack). it's a curb stomp, plain and simple. stop trying to look honourable, the only people you're fooling are the idiots who would eat it up for their own benefit. [/quote] I actually wish more alliances would pile on so we get more of this.

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1281402091' post='2408751'] My favorite part is where RoK declared war on NSO, and then NSO acted surprised. [/quote] That's good, but the better part is when a bunch of people act like aiding a rogue is commonplace and minor. What a paradigm shift in the community, literally overnight.

[quote name='Jonathan Archer' timestamp='1281396911' post='2408600'] I can see why talking to real people would be a problem for you, there isn't any bold face in a real conversation. [/quote] I'm sure there is, and that's why he's here now. So bold it breaks mirrors from 50 feet.

Let him type in bold, it's pretty clear he can't war so it wouldn't be sporting to take what little he has left.

[quote name='Deezznutts' timestamp='1281395460' post='2408546'] [font="Arial Black"]How did I chicken out? Im fighting right now its called strategy dumbass if i could get one or two people not to attack and sit on there hands well that just good strategy![/font] [/quote] Anarchy is a hell of a strategy.

[quote name='Deezznutts' timestamp='1281394763' post='2408530'] [font="Arial Black"]Do you have anything to offer beside hanging on my every word and quoting me like my your all mighty god?[/font] [/quote] No, not really.

Do you have anything to offer other than rampant spelling mistakes in bold font?

[quote name='Deezznutts' timestamp='1281394205' post='2408509'] [font="Arial Black"]Haha that kid is funny. You guys attack mostly the weak lower level NSO nations like myself then talk big like you did something difficult your a joke![/font] [/quote] Look who is commenting on people talking big, everyone!

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281391966' post='2408444'] I'd expect it from GOD and \m/, but not VE. You are better than this. [/quote] Aiding a rogue is a minor infraction, why do you object?

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281391458' post='2408434'] Except RoK didn't need to seek negotiations, because NSO was doing that. RoK only had to merely accept to enter negotiations. But they couldn't. They wouldn't. They didn't want to. Because that might get in the way of smacking around NPO's side of the web. And what was your original question? I apologize but I haven't the time to dig it up. It might have been something I've already answered, or maybe it was a weighted question. I try to answer all reasonable questions. [/quote] ugh, seriously? well if anything at least I got a laugh out of this

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281389314' post='2408375']The implication you made is that NSO was preparing for a war that they wanted. That is absurd, and proven untrue by the fact that they called off their allies. Why on earth do you think that NSO just woke up one day and decided that they wanted to get rolled?[/quote] No, the implication I'm making is that maybe Rok didn't pursue additional negotiations based on the actions of NSO. I don't think NSO wanted this war at all, however I think they tried to get out of it in a completely incompetent way. Now ignore that and tell me what I'm [i]really[/i] thinking, just like I know you will. e- and you still haven't answered my original question, or even addressed it at all, why is that?

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281388315' post='2408344'] Again with the reasoning that "The victim actually wants the crime to be committed on him!" Really? Maybe it had to do with the entirety of RoK.gov making themselves scarce and it being a common sense precaution. Just a thought. And I'm the one who needs to take off the tin foil [/quote] If you would stop spinning for your side for a second and re-read what you quoted I said, I'm not saying either side did anything. I'm merely pointing out that getting told "don't aid", then aiding and hitting PM probably looks suspicious to the people you supposedly wanted to negotiate with. You probably do need a tinfoil hat if you read what I typed and came to the conclusion that you did. I have a suggestion, lay off the posting for awhile and gather your thoughts, you're clearly fighting too many fronts at once and it's readily apparent that you can't handle it. e- and you didn't answer my question

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1281387565' post='2408311'] I am curious as to how a 4k ns nation was supposed to be able to pay back large amounts of money while under attack and not being allowed any aid? [/quote] They can't, that's why 4k nations shouldn't go rogue. If I drive drunk and kill someone without having insurance, should I go scot free because I'm poor?

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1281385513' post='2408242'] [color="#0000FF"]I hate to interrupt you little tirade, but haven't I and several others already explained that the aid never should have been sent, and that it was a mistake on our part? In fact, I did that as soon as I spoke with Hoo.[/color] [/quote] too little, too late it seems