Rush Sykes
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Posts posted by Rush Sykes
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OP needs moar Tumultuous Papaya!!!!
Anyhow, grats Fark, enjoy your doom!
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I, for one, love FOK, and can understand this.
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That's not the wisest road, Mr Sykes. Just because Heft (or others) may have erred in the past doesn't make them less able to see the same actions in the present. I think this is referred to as 'ad hominem tu quoque' fallacy.
After all, if an embezzler accuses you of embezzling, does his past history have any bearing on whether you stole from your company?
Edit: tags don't work that way? Weird.
Its not about being wise. And its not about accusing. Anyone can accuse anyone of anything. But it is ultimately hypocrisy to condemn anyone for actions that do not even approach the actions that they once committed and/or supported. I am fed up with the sactimonius power structure from the past passing their judgements. They are free to try, as am I, free to label them for their hypocrisy.
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Well I did give up a position of privilege to join an alliance that was a high-profile and relatively vulnerable target from the start. That said, I really don't feel any need to justify or explain myself for the benefit of the public. I'm not here to cleanse my soul and you're not my priest.
Some of the people you believe to be blatantly ignoring their own past may simply feel no need to share their own internal dialogue with you.
Accepted. And those of us who have legitimate complaints from their time in power, see no reason to accep unseen change. As such, I choose to view the judgement of anyone from power, from back in that time, of todays happenings, with hypocritcially covered glasses.
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A misdeed is a misdeed is a misdeed. The idea that because someone once did something wrong they're forever barred from protesting whatever anyone else does is absurd and makes no sense. All it amounts to is an attempt to "other" and marginalize your opposition. Those of us who participated in wars like what you're carrying out right now are uniquely positioned to recognize it for what it is. And let's not get into how plenty of the people unhappy here never were responsible for those sorts of activities.
You are more than free to complain about anything you perceive to be a misdeed. However, when one looks behind ones self at the path that they have come down, they need to simply accept the fact that their current opinions will always be revelled in hypocrisy based on past actions. Can people change? Yes. Do people who were part of that past harbor serious regrets? Yes. Do others blatantly ignore their own past while complaining about the present? Of course they do. Serious question...Which of those 3 categories best fit you?
I do mean that as a serious question, I hope you don't think otherwise. What has changed about you from those days?
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Unless you're in an alliance with under 40 members, a former hegemony alliance, or publicly disagree with former Karma alliances, amiright?
Do I really need to go down the list of publicly disagreeing with Karma alliances? It's funny...AirMe pointed out in one thread, that you are better than this. Maybe he was wrong. It is said elsewhere in this thread, but look at NPO, still under terms, bashing Athens daily...punishment: Zero. If that one example doesnt destroy your entire argument, find me in #Athens, and I can give you a long list of others.
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There goes the whole plan!
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But it's not. Hoo didn't circulate the logs, Warbuck did. Why would Warbuck not remember it and have to look it up if he had been the one thinking it was significant enough to relay on to others? His reaction was a farce.
Then you should start incorporating reason into your logical decision-making processes. In other words: start being reasonable.
The truly funny thing is, the people who SHOULD see this, wont.
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Well, I'm sorry I'm late to this party. I'll clarify from my point of view.
-The New Alliance they were making was going to have an Athens Protectorate.
-They Instead wanted to keep UED and had ample proof King Death II has violated the charter multiple times.
-They had no real protection post coup and asked Athens to help as they were going to be the new Alliance Protector
-I was involved due to my friendship with everyone in UED excluding King Death II.
-I was approached by UED after my joke thread on CN Forum against KDII showing a few holes in charter he edited out for convenience including the clause that says he served life. He set himself up for this.
King Death II refused to get//allow his membership trades from any alliance outside Red Solidarity. When a man puts his ego above his alliance, it's his time to go. In hindsight, I'd do it all over again.
How dare you speak out against the truth and righteousness of the OP.
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Honestly, my respect for TPF has gone up. They are sitting there taking it on the chin while their allies are playing chess.
It may stun the general audience, but I cocnur with this statement.
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Was going to ask the question, and therefore contribute, but Ninten beat me to it. Plus, I think it's probably refreshing if people see my post and think "yeah, this guy's not contributing either" because pretty much no one is.
I did not choose how he worded the question, he worded the question that way, I was simply repeating the manner in which he worded it to be consistent with him. Try again.
Or maybe he really just wasnt asking THEM, he was asking the peanut gallery. Its ok sunshine, if I looked as bad as you after that comment, I wouldnt admit it either.
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I believe that's what he's doing right now. Do we know where to find them? No. Are you being helpful at all? No. Should you shut up unless you're going to contribute? Probably, because otherwise you look like an $@!.
Also, just a thought... only a minor one mind you... Contributing to the conversation is fun, you should try it.
See my response above, and no, I don't think his problem is that they went to Athens, I believe he is wondering if they did go to Athens at all, since there is no reason to.
Well arent you a clever little nipper. Your astute contribution to the topic at hand is noted. Oh, and BTW, asking "why did THEY go to Athens" is not asking THEM, its asking 3rd party onlookers. You see sir, asking THEM would be "Why did YOU go to Athens." Its ok though, I know english a tough language. Comprehension FTW!
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Okay, then why did UED go to Athens? There are hundreds of alliances out there that UED could have gotten help from. I think (but I'm not positive) UED had treaty partners they could have gone to. So why would they go to pretty much same random alliance off the street they don't know, asking for help?
Here is a thought...just a thought though, mind you....Ask them?
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Wow, wait what! How were they set up, please explain this to me
You are pretty thick arent you? They exist, therefore they were set up. I know its a tough concept for you to grasp, give it time sweetie.
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Its nothing alike. TPF talked about it. Athens talked about. No one really did anything. Oh wait maybe it is alike.
You are 100% right. If you ignore the fact that ZH was set up. And then you ignore the logs showing suggestions and directions on how to proceed. If you ignore the logs of ZH having to cancel an OP that was only..."talked about". If you ignore all of those things, then yes, its the same. We appreciate your validation of our CB. Thank you.
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This is lulzy, especially considering the cast of characters involved. Then watching the cast of characters post their "outrage" brought the lulz to a completely new level. I would venture to guess, that in order to destroy a community, a community would a) have to exist and b) want to continue to exist. Its very LOL funny that something like this would be used to feign outrager, especially when the original poster so clearly believes Athens CB on TPF to be just fine. Yes sir, lulzy indeed.
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Say what you want to about M*A*S*H but Im going to give you a little history lesson. I have been with M*A*S*H since March of 2008. We have faught in 2 wars..... no of which we have been the aggressors. We have faught Universalis and HPS in the NoCB war and GGA in the KArma war. Neither of which we were the aggressors. We came in in defense in Legion as they were nuked by Universalis and they lacked some of the upperend nations to be freed up to fight Universalis. We also faught HPs at the time on behalf of Legion because they were overextended
In the Karma war, we faught on the side of Athens by engaging an enemy that attacked them even though we only held at the time a ODP . We thought it was right because alot of M*A*S*H believed in the Karmic ideal at the time and that a good chunk of our body were ONOS expatriots including most of upper end government. During this time, we sat down and had communication with Athens and decided to upgrade our treaty to a MDoAP agreement. Athens treated us like the best of friends while were in Karma and we thought we would be gaining a powerful ally.
When the war ended, at the suggestion of Londo and Athens, M*A*S*H signed a ODP with GGA as well as a protectorate while they rebuilt. This was Athens idea and they wanted every part of it while still in discussion stages. When it came time to sign the treaty, Athens disappeared and never gave M*A*S*H a valid reason why they were not signing the treaty that they had worked so hard for us to make. They still haven't given us a response back.
After the 'Catch Your Breath Accords' were signed and up to including the TPF DoW, Athens has been mostly silent about any communications with us. This is almost 5 months. The only member of Athens that has been in consistant contact with M*A*S*H was Jgoods. In fact, I have it on good understanding that Athens has voted to keep our treaty at least once since then but also worded 'need better communication' as well as our Ambassador posting Multiple threads (20ish?) with only one reply and only 20 views IN OUR ENTIRE EMBASSY. They didnt take the time to know us and are surprised when we decide not to pick up an aggression clause in our treaty. If they had taken the time to know us, maybe then they would have understand better. The reason we were talking to Purple was becuase they had taken the time to know us and are quite fond of us
As for the Athens treaty, it's no real loss when we didnt really know each other. Thank you for not psuedo-wasting our time anymore.
Thank you for the history lesson, although it was not needed. Nowhere in any of my posts, have I disparaged M*A*S*H's history in war. As for the communications, yes you are righ. The vote was taken, and communication was cited. Funny thing that communication though, it IS a two way street. Was the communication between Athens and MASH poor? Yes. Is Athens a guilty party in that? Absolutely. Communication is a two way street however. I communicate with allies, and potential new friends on a daily basis. Ally communications are not meant to be handled in forum embassies (this is my opinion, others may of course differ). Athens has a very active IRC channel. Again, are we guilty of lacking in communication and "not getting to know you"...Yes...That works two ways. Were your forum posts slightly more of an effort than we made? Yes. But only slightly. If the treaty, and the relationship that goes with the treaty, mattered enough to either of us, IRC is where the relationship would build. The effort was simply not there, by either party. It is sad that it happened like this, but, as I have said multiple times now, I think we all can agree it was for the best.
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I don't think you understand a lot of things, Mr. Sykes.
But even if we ignore all of the glaring faults of your tired, well-worn "argument" we're still left with a rather pointless, tired, well-worn argument. It is one thing to argue that one person's past misdeeds can damage their credibility, it is quite another to argue that some people's past misdeeds justify another person's present misdeeds. Which, when it comes down to it, is all the "but you were worse" rhetoric comes down to.
I think I understand a great many things my good man, but thank you for condescending. You would be an interesting person to discuss past misdeeds with, but I am sure neither of us are really in the mood to go there. You can categorize my argument any way you see fit, it is well within your rights. It does, however, fail to make it so. There is one simple message behind this thread, and that is that the CN of today, is leaps and bounds superior of the CN of 18 months ago. I am not suggesting for one moment that any past misdeeds justify any current misdeeds. I am suggesting that the perpetrators of those past misdeeds, can and should, choke on the hypocrisy of trying to paint something in this day and age, as a misdeed.
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So your opinion on CBs is not "Do unto others as you wish to be done", but rather, "Do unto others as they did unto you over the years" That is how you think things should be?
i though someone said something about it being a New Age here.
In fact, I think Im saying quite the opposite. Regardless of anyone's opinion, Athens current CB stacks up head and shoulders above "I dont like you"...which incidentally got roundly hailed by oh so many decrying Athens current CB....It stacks up well against "ZOMG we said you couldnt play anymore and now you are doing a tech deal" CB... The new age is revealed in the fact that people dont fear calling our CB junk, if thats what they really thing it is. The IRON CB of "We dont like you" ...was junk....and it flew, and nobody said a word. The Chickenzilla reroll tech deal CB was junk, and those same people, who decry Athens CB, rallied to the cause behind that righteous CB. If you think our CB is BS, its fine to feel that way, but if you rallied to cause and joined in on the Hyperion and the rest of the noCB beatdown, you probably should shut up for the rest of your life about the validity of anyone's CB. If, however, you are one of the ones who stood and fought against that nonsense CB, as I am, then your opinion on our CB matters to me. It wont change mine, but to me, it certainly does matter.
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This is true, but I think it's fair to say that TPF had other things to worry about at that time. The fact is, by the time they got peace, the operation was terminated. We can go into what-ifs and statements of intent, but the fact is that after TPF left the Karma War – and surrendered to 'the forces of Karma' – they were no longer running a hostile operation.
The issue I have with this rebuttal, is that it is unacceptable to me, that in 17 days, they couldnt find a moment to say, "hey this doesnt need done anymore." I find it perfectly plausible that had it not been for the OOC falling out with ZH, that they fully intended to carry out this mission.
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Why are you judging your CB with past precedents you helped defeat?
And what do you say about people like myself who entered the political field after the Karma war? (Someone who wasn't part of the hail fests you mentioned)
I am not judging our CB based on any past precedents. I am contrasting those who decry the CB as BS now, who stood in full support of CB's such as "I dont like you" and "ZOMG, we said you couldnt (OOC:)PLAY THE GAME(OOC) anymore"...they happened, they are part of CN's history. I judge our CB based solely on the fact that TPF claimed they were in an eternal war because NPO was, yet allowed this OP to continue for 17 days after the "eternal war" nonsense was exposed as BS.
To those who came to CN after the aforementioned period, I say this....Learn from history, or fall victim to a repeat of it.
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TPF held fast to the notion that they believed they were in a never-ending war.
Lucky for us that wasn't the ummmm, case.
Karma cat is purring somewhere.
I suppose that could I not come up with a valid reason that the op carried on for 17 days after TPF finally KNEW that their entire reason for believing the war would never end was no longer present, I would make a snide comment about one snippet of text too.
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The world is your judge, Rush.
Approach the table for peace now before things get worse.
Fear not what is to come, fear what has passed.
In seriousness, I said at the beginning of this affair, that the world would judge us. Its just funny that so many individuals see themselves as "the world".
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...no.
You're not.
You are not our judge.
Grey Council statement of neutrality
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted · Edited by Rush Sykes
Completely Expected.
Damn, I missed the whole last part about RoK....Fantastic job of analyzing the facts and reaching logical conclusions.