2burnt2eat

During Negotiations, which we decided to over look, until it became a common occurrence. You forgot the three other warnings we gave UCR over a four-day period in which Slonq decided to continue to attack in spite of this. We began attacks on certain other nations in UCR as we had the foresight to expect a counter-attack. Although, a few nations of ours did not turn out for the attacks, which is disappointing. The parts where you systematically keep omitting the fact that UCR continued to attack, lie, and buy time over a four day period. This is not a case of ICB pushing a little guy around because they can, it's a case of kicking a little guy back into place that thinks he's invincible and can do whatever he feels like without a repercussion. I have no idea who you're referring to, UCR or ICB in the first part. As for the second, why, yes, we did ask for reparations in the form of tech after FOUR DAYS of ATTACKS by THREE DIFFERENT NATIONS versus ATTACKS on ONE nation on ONE day. Especially when all wars and attacks were made after Dasi stopped attacking, there was no reason to do this whatsoever. Especially with negotiations. There was no reason to continue to do this with four chances. What is so hard about this concept? Especially when 100 tech is an extremely miniscule amount, especially with the high amounts of damage Dasi took. How hard-headed can you be? Agreed. Go away. I don't know how "wrong" we can get with four opportunities we gave UCR to back out. Anybody could see a storm-coming, and the fact that they attacked anyway knowing this is quite entertaining.

We asked for reparations after they continued attacking, despite us. You know how being attacked by 3 people for 4 days is ridiculously much for one day of attacks on one person? Along those same lines. As for our Charter, the only way you can make the contradiction is if a backfired raid includes every attack AFTER that raid by ANY and EVERY kind of nation. I thought I was pretty concise in what I meant when I wrote the thing. It's sad that we'll probably have to end-up revising the thing to stop the e-lawyers. And I love how people only focus on this, and I have barely seen any coverage over the rest of the issue. Let's face it, attacking after receiving a message that ICB would take action if you did is just plain silly by anyone's standards and by whatever you're doing. The fact that they did this three times before is even sillier. And let me clear up another lie Yes you did. In fact, you did it four times. In fact, RA2Leader sent you ALL of my messages. And I know for a fact when you received our ultimateum that he read it in the early hours of that CN Day, posted it on your forums, and then you decided to attack in the late hours of CN after reading it. Everyone was quite aware what was going on. What we didn't know was our badly you didn't want to get peace. When we attacked, they finally got a wake-up call and started really negotiating, at least RA2Leader. This situation was being settled when Slonq decided to post his infamous fake expose on ICB. This shows another time UCR says one thing and does another. If you want to blame it on no internal fluency, fine, fix it. However, I do know that you knowingly got our messages each time and did choose to attack.

We didn't start asking for reparations after the first few rounds of attacks, when it hit day three and four, it got old pretty quick. As stated before, he should be left alone with his raid target. This isn't the case with these extra attackers attacking in 'retaliation' despite President Dasi halting all attacks. These continued far past punishment. A bad-placed for a raid, isn't worth a sentence for ZI, especially when the member complies.

Well thank you for that, however when arguing with so many people, it's hard to get all the right words out to describe the situation. And especially over such a heated topic! The small alliance had the gall to provoke the fight, fight the fight, and continue the fight. We knew this going in led by someone like Slonq.

We didn't. I'm also in a position of knowing. If we're going to fight with opinion over this, then mine would have to be more creditable as I was there. K. We didn't attack a nation then ask for reps. Dasi's attack was not ordered by our government or anything. It was a misplaced raid made by a newbie, he paid the price for it. When they decided to milk this opportunity for all it's worth, they went way too far. As for UCR's Charter and Ours, I have no problem with that. I pointed that fact out to them when they were using our own charter to justify their attacks, and how we couldn't legally get involved while they jaunted. All I did was use the same Charter and point out the flaw all the while dismissing how they were misusing our Charter to justify their continued attacks.

If you punch a bigger kid with friends, over and over, and are TERRIBLY SHOCKED to see yourself get punched back, you deserve what you get too.

I refer to attacking during negotiations multiple times over a raid, lying, and trying to e-lawyer the guy who wrote the charter over a six-month period as provocation. Please explain to me, why would you attack when you the alliance government told you enough is enough, if you carry this any further we will counter your attacks? But of course, I believe might makes right. Which doesn't explain why UCR had four.. or five chances to back out on good terms but rejected them all the same! A few frames of the film, and you judge my character to put out the cliche of how I think I'm right because our alliance is stronger.

Completely puzzling to think that we would say that our member would be on his own with the guy he raided, but then defend him from continued, daily attacks from multiple other nations! Our charter says we do not defend someone whose raid-target fought back. Of course that's rephrased. Its common for nations to be retaliated on that made a wrong target out of a nation. However, it's not common for retaliation to be taken to the extremes just to provoke the member's government. Along with their 'negotations' during the whole time.

This is a repetition of an argument we keep getting. He deserves what he got coming because he attempted a raid. But yea, now he knows how all gang-banged raid targets with all-out strikes with everything feel! Oh wait, that's not a raid..

I never said "the court of public opinion is only in session for large groups", or that small alliances weren't allowed to post on the OWF. Quit putting words in my mouth. We didn't want attention as we've always minded our own business, until UCR government made us have to choose whether we should risk stirring things up to defend our alliance's integrity from these multiple, and continued provocations, or get worm syndrome and bow out the door. But thanks for saying my piece is well-written!

If we wanted to portray them as the bad guys, we would've posted on the CN forums before them. If we had a bloodlust, we wouldn't of negotiated other hot issues with other alliances. Let's stop the presumptions, but I am flattered that you take us as an example of how bad our CN world is becoming

We're clear on that. He did attack a member, which they decided to defend. However, their retaliation went WAY above what was called for. Apparently if I'm not in a position to judge what's the right punishment, you shouldn't either. We don't have a problem with the initial counter-attacks on Dasi. We do have a problem when you continue them for days on end only to aggravate our government. And it's all shocking what happens when we've had enough, isn't it?

I did not pick and choose what parts of my Charter to follow. It says if the RAID goes wrong. A raid on one nation upon another. Clearly, a raid includes only the raider and the raided. It says if the raid BACKFIRES then we won't take action. These continued attacks by others are not apart of a "raid". If you don't like the wording, I'll put in an amendment for you! I'm not outraged. But, we do have a problem where you continue to attack an alliance knowing full-well what the consequences would be and then go play the poor, defenseless victim, all the while trying to provoke an alliance to attack you. I'll stick my neck out for members that have behaved, or made a mistake. As the leader of my alliance, I'm pretty sure I do have a say in how far you decide to take attacks on members of my alliance.

The destruction of a nation over a raid that he stopped attacking in on day one is paying the price? Oh yea, that's totally paying the price. What's a guy get that goes rogue? Thanks The damage he's already sustained has been more then enough. We did expect counter-attacks. We were okay with it. When UCR continued to attack him after already waay more damage has been done despite ICB telling them enough was enough multiple times, they decided to attack anyway. And we haven't 'sheltered' him for the last 4 days, what would exactly be enough to satisfy you for his 'consequences'? Zero-Infrastructure?

He's away. Naturally he'd get beat-up after four days of attacks by three nations. And another joined in today. And he has paid the price. Four days at war with three nations... and today it's five days with four... Hermmm.. Nope! This raid should be treated with ZI! Humble as ever, RV

Read the OP, your skim-reading is fail :/

I do claim that attacks from two additional nations, and the attacked nation for the next four days despite ICB government imploring UCR to stop, to be far above a back-fired raid. This was UCR trying to flex muscle. They decided that snubbing ICB four times, even with a warning of 24 hours of what was to come, was the best course. And I'm not upset about anything, I'm too mellow. Still love ya' RV

And then get Slonq to go at his antics again, then rinse, lather, and repeat!

Yes, our member raided them, but he stood down as ordered, and we were completely willing to pay for the damages and everything. However, we tried... three.. four.. well, at least four times to resolve this issue, and Slonq decided to escalate it each time.

Or atleast we tried.. four times.. But we're totally in the wrong for not trying it a fifth time. Anyway, Brengstklau counters your propaganda, and raises you one, Slonq!

I love how Slonq can post propaganda, and everybody immediately takes it it at face-value, and as the truth.

After this wonderful piece of UCR propaganda by Slonq Here, which thrust us into the limelight as the evil oppressors.. it has become necessary for us to disperse such falsehoods. And as much as I enjoy looking evil and all the free advertisement we'll now be getting, I'd much rather have the whole story told. We apologize in advance, we didn't want to post such a small alliance matter on the OWF, but you can thank Slonq for that.. Our story begins with a relatively new nation of Brengstklau raiding one of the members of the once-were obscure Union of Communist Republics. This was brought to our attention by RA2Leader, and we then proceeded to order our member to stand-down, and file in war reports to figure out the reparations. Then, four hours after talks begin, Premier Slonq and their Minister of War, ZeroRemorse, decided that the best move was to launch counter-attacks on President Dasi; needless to say, the initial three attacks from three different nations did more than what President Dasi ever did. A surprised Brengstklau tries to inquire as to what they were doing when 1. Talks just began over the raid, and 2. President Dasi did not launch any new attacks and stood down. Even though they decided to attack during negotiations, Brengstklau shrugged it off, informed UCR government to launch no further attacks on Dasi, and we could get back to the talks (we were still willing to pay reparations at this point). UCR responds that they're not doing anything, and then begins their attempt to e-lawyer our Charter. Let me make this very clear: Brengstklau DOES not help members whose raids go wrong, and their target fights back. However, it's standard practice for alliance Governments to negotiate raids launched on other alliances from newbies. Furthermore, we told them that this non-intervention only covers the war between the Raider and Raided, and not these newly-launched attacks ordered by their government which continued despite ICB gov. protest. If you want to e-lawyer our Charter that way, you'd also have to do it on the flip side with: If you want to play technicalities, then from your own game we have the right to defend ourselves as this is an attack on the whole of Brengstklau, an act of aggressive war, UCR. However, we again restate that attacks from TWO OTHER NATIONS is much more than a raid backfiring with the defender attacking back. UCR's Response: More attacks. The next Day: More Attacks. President Dasi never launched one attack besides the one's he sent at his raid target on day one. We then alerted UCR government that they should stand down and stop attacking, and also that with the excess amount of attacks (hell, even day one was pushing it), we would want reparations for the many times damage Dasi sustained even when he standed down, and did not attack but was attacked anyway. Of course these reparations would be minus the damage Dasi did. UCR then responds to us that reparations will not be paid as damages are about equal (impossible, let's just think, 3 nations attacking on two days compared to one attacking another once?), but they did say they would now tell their members to stand down. Great! ICB thought. But.. UCR attacks again. Another UCR metaphorical middle-finger to Brengstklau Government, and more snubbing. We then told them that reparations would definitely be necessary. Our man has not attacked again, and a stray raid does not mean the destruction of a nation as if he was going rogue. With the continuation of attacks, we required it. As they continued to lie to our face about peace while attacking, saying one thing and doing another, we finally had enough. We weren't going to be pushed around because they think they could get away with it. We gave them 24 hours to STOP attacking Dasi, apologize for the ruddy way they have been handling things in the way they've been 'negotiating', attacking, and lying to us all at the same time, and to pay 100 tech (extremely lenient for the extra damage Dasi has received). When we tried to work things out, they attacked, when we asked them to stop to get back to talks, they attacked again, we asked them again, and they continued. And with our terms laid out, and after they were informed that we would take actions against them if they did not comply, they decided to CONTINUE to attack. Brengstklau then put it's money where it's mouth was. We've had enough of UCR telling us one thing and doing another. We're tired of being stringed along, of all the metaphorical middle-fingers they gave us when we tried to reach a solution, and the "What are you going to do about it?" attitude they acted, and walked in the whole time. Well, we're doing something about it. UCR, we gave you three chances, and we made it clear to you what we would do if you continued to snub us and attack our member anyway when he stood down. After four days, enough is enough. It's clear you won't stop, so we'll obey our Charter and defend our member from YOUR AGGRESSIVE and continuously PROVOCATIVE actions. Last night, Brengstklau informed UCR that we were recognizing these continued government-ordered, sponsored, and condoned attacks, and along with their insults, as acts of aggressive war on us. But sure, both of us can claim the defensive for the hell of it. As for GDA taking part in their evil protectorate's actions, just think. If that was the case, GDA would be all over UCR in wars like flies over dung.

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=203561 Seller right here, though it's not my nation, he's been a reliable seller in the past. I'm also the de facto salesman for the alliance for getting tech deals so

http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_...tion_ID=1001053 Iron and Spices

Just go away already, zig.