War for Freedom

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1289585623' post='2511244']
Then perhaps Ireland should use this ceasefire to release your citizens.
In the unlikely event that war should break out once more, it would be a most wise decision, and a well respected decision to release the prisoners whilst there is a chance to remove them safely.

If Ireland is unable to do with or unwilling too until a peace accord is signed, then it should be made public the locations of the prisoners in the event a peace is not brokered and hostilities commence. However, with any luck, a peace can be brokered and the above precautions will have solved nothing, however, it is better to be cautious.
[/quote]

Ireland has said that they will release the POWs when hostilities are concluded and not before. We agree with them on this. A ceasefire is not the conclusion for hostilities, it is only a respite before either war begins again or ends for good.

[Triyun]

[quote name='Pravus Ingruo' timestamp='1289585966' post='2511246']
And how many more Irish civilians would have died had they simply continued to use conventional weapons against overwhelming force? The Irish are a proud people, they would have fought to the last man, woman, and child. How many more deaths would have been caused at the hands of England's own troops?

The main purpose of nuclear weapons is a deterrent. They are not simply meant to sit in silos and look shiny. If attacked, they are meant to be used to defend your country, along with any other weapon at your disposal. The use of nuclear weapons is much more of a deterrent to being attacked that the threat of the use of nuclear weapons. Look what the Irish did, and look how their attackers responded. The attacks stopped, the advances stopped, and peace negotiations are underway. Had the Irish not used nuclear weapons, what reason would the European Coalition have had to sit down at the negotiating table. The answer is none.

While London was not a military target, it was still a high-value strategic target. It was a massive psychological blow to the English, as well as a significant blow to their morale. In what Ireland did, they knew there would only be two outcomes: either it would harden the resolve of the European Coalition and they would double their efforts, risking more nuclear hellfire on the European continent for both sides, or the English, and by extension the Coalition, would weaken in their resolve, sue for a cease fire, and begin negotiations. As you can see, the Irish gambled, and they won.

While the thought, and action, of attacking a civilian center with nuclear weapons is deplorable, we feel the Irish chose the lesser of two evils. Had they not responded with every force necessary, I can guarantee more than seven million civilians would have died, on both sides.
[/quote]

I completely disagree with assessment of casualties. Almost without question less would have died than were killed in London. Precision weapons mean that military use targets could have been targetted only, hundreds of thousands possibly but not millions. Furthermore, the fall out to the River Thames eco system and the poisonous cancinogenic radiation means we do not know the true death toll. With modern technology, nuclear weapons do not need to be used against population centers to be a deterrent. One can cripple an army group, the English would need army groups to occupy Irish territory or even target the nuclear strike capacity of an opponent. Both are more effective at improving a negotiating posture and do not require massacring millions.

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1289586632' post='2511256']
I completely disagree with assessment of casualties. Almost without question less would have died than were killed in London. Precision weapons mean that military use targets could have been targetted only, hundreds of thousands possibly but not millions. Furthermore, the fall out to the River Thames eco system and the poisonous cancinogenic radiation means we do not know the true death toll. With modern technology, nuclear weapons do not need to be used against population centers to be a deterrent. One can cripple an army group, the English would need army groups to occupy Irish territory or even target the nuclear strike capacity of an opponent. Both are more effective at improving a negotiating posture and do not require massacring millions.
[/quote]

Then in this case we, as allies, will have to agree to disagree on this matter.

[Zoot Zoot]

[quote]While London was not a military target, it was still a high-value strategic target. It was a massive psychological blow to the English, as well as a significant blow to their morale. In what Ireland did, they knew there would only be two outcomes: either it would harden the resolve of the European Coalition and they would double their efforts, risking more nuclear hellfire on the European continent for both sides, or the English, and by extension the Coalition, would weaken in their resolve, sue for a cease fire, and begin negotiations. As you can see, the Irish gambled, and they won. [/quote]

Psychological blow?
Blow to our moral?

No, your assesment is deadly wrong, it was this attack which fueled the frontline soldiers into their frenzy which forced the Irish forces on the border to retreat and lose ground. Their nuclear attack on English military targets resulted in them dropping nuclear ordenance inside their own borders in heavily populated areas such as Newport.

The Empires view on warfare is grim, and England feels pity for any Nation that finds the use of nuclear weapons on civilian centers of no military interest in a counter attack first strike to be acceptable and Justified.

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1289588700' post='2511275']
Psychological blow?
Blow to our moral?

No, your assesment is deadly wrong, it was this attack which fueled the frontline soldiers into their frenzy which forced the Irish forces on the border to retreat and lose ground. Their nuclear attack on English military targets resulted in them dropping nuclear ordenance inside their own borders in heavily populated areas such as Newport.

The Empires view on warfare is grim, and England feels pity for any Nation that finds the use of nuclear weapons on civilian centers of no military interest in a counter attack first strike to be acceptable and Justified.
[/quote]

No, the hundreds of thousands of soldiers that stormed the border at the onset of the war pushed back the border guards, not your soldiers going into a "frenzy".

[Yawoo]

Irish diplomats would meet each of the foreign representatives at the airport where they would all board a private limousine that would be driven to the meeting location. Once there, Irish officials would sit down with the representatives and hear their offer.

OOC: I'd just as soon we skip right to the meeting unless someone has objections to that.

[Kaiser Martens]

In the meantime, Berlin concluded that the world was simply indifferent or in some cases supportive of Nuclear Holocaust. In times like this, it'd wish that Paris still existed as a center of power rather than a fancy shell.

OOC: I have no objections. We should begin.

[Zoot Zoot]

Admiral Joona was the first to speak to the gathered delegates.
"As the Germanic Union negotiated the terms, the Germanic Union should present them."

[Kaiser Martens]

"Alright,

These are terms that I discussed with the Irish Government and then received preliminary approval regarding them from the English Government. Our other Allies have been informed about them but most have not actually voiced their opinion.

It is simple. Ireland will fix the damages to London, and Germanic Union and England will fix the civilian-related damages in Ireland in turn. Germanic Union will guarantee the sovereignty of Ireland for five years and offers as well a non-agression pact, which, as an afterthought I add now, should also exist between Ireland and the others involved to negate any possibilities of further conflict. Both sides get reparations, so both get some form of reparations, and all get peace - a warranty of peace for an extended period. It had already agreed previously even before this that the POWs would be released one way or the other when the conflict ended, so that is decided too."

As Hinna finishes speaking, it would turn out to be only a pause when she says in a much grimmer voice, "The alternative, if war continues, is an all-out Nuclear holocaust. Millions in each nation will die, and the Irish Nation as a whole could be genocided by nukes. Berlin has informed me that they do not want to go down in history as responsible for such a thing, that it would be wholly unacceptable, so for the sake of everyone involved, the war [i]must[/i] end."

Edited November 15, 2010 by Kaiser Martens

[Yawoo]

Field Marshal Griffin, the Irish representative at the talks, spoke up when Hinna finished speaking. "Indeed, the Irish government accepted Berlin's terms when the German government approached them about the possibility of an end to the current conflict. The addition of the further NAPs is also acceptable, my government had already considered the possibility. It is truly in everyone's best interest to end this conflict with the terms already agreed on with Berlin."

[Zoot Zoot]

"Millions already have died Hinna at the hands of the Irish on both sides of the border due to a badly placed nuclear weapon in the Severn, not to mention London. However, early this morning, Parliament was dissolved by the King and Queen after a use of the Royal Prerogative. Being against the war from the start, they have used the ceasefire and peace talks as the time to act. I have with me the full details of the situation for people to read after the talks are over, but you will probably have a memo on your desks in regards to it. Anyway, my standing orders from the Prime Minister were to secure a peace with Ireland, and as it stands, my orders now come from the King who also desires peace.

England must raise some complaints at the terms in regards to Irish punishment. A warcrimes tribunal would be most fitting for the targetting of a civilian metropolis with nuclear weapons. But under present circumstances I cant see that happening.
A letter was faxed to me from the Kings bunker, hand written and addresed to the King of Ireland. I was informed of its contents and I am granted permission to share it with all present here.

The King simply wants an apology from the Irish King for the deliberate targetting of London. He doesnt want it to be a public apology, or anything grand. A simple "I'm Sorry" or something along those lines would suffice. He believes it would go a long way for rebuilding the bridges that this war burnt down.

Apart from that, I can say that England will sign the proposed document, however reluctantly."

Edited November 15, 2010 by Zoot Zoot

[Yawoo]

Field Marshal Griffin chuckled as the English diplomat revealed his King wanted an apology. "The Irish aren't going to apologize for using whatever means necessary to bring the war to an end. You were all warned Ireland would respond in a nuclear manner should you invade Ireland. It was [b]your[/b] coalition that began targeting civilian sites, not Ireland. Did you think Ireland would not respond to the attacks against our civilian infrastructure? Ireland has seen what England and Scotland are - you are not our friends, you took the freedom we gave you and threw it back in our faces when you invaded. There will be no bridges built here today, there will merely be an end to this conflict or not. We are already paying for the rebuilding of London. We will not apologize for using our arsenal of nuclear weapons to defend the Kingdom from the threat of foreign nations."

[Zoot Zoot]

"Then that is regrettable, the precise use of conventional munitions to target civilian infra structure such as port facilities and airports, both of which can be used from a military stand point, or a nuclear weapon of strategic scale against a fully civilian target. It doesnt really add up. The King isnt too fussed as the saying goes in regards to the nuclear weapons used agianst the military formations, it was to be expected after your threat, but a civilian attack was not. England is not asking Ireland to simply "kiss and make up", but progress is progress, it simply depends on which direction you wish the progress to be in. If Ireland proper was invaded, It would be understood. But the invasions took place in Wales, not to mention the Scottish forces were still clearing mines in the UKIM pass.

Anyway, as you dont seem to be interested, do you have a copy of the document in question?"

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1289832067' post='2513575']
"Then that is regrettable, the precise use of conventional munitions to target civilian infra structure such as port facilities and airports, both of which can be used from a military stand point, or a nuclear weapon of strategic scale against a fully civilian target. It doesnt really add up. The King isnt too fussed as the saying goes in regards to the nuclear weapons used agianst the military formations, it was to be expected after your threat, but a civilian attack was not. England is not asking Ireland to simply "kiss and make up", but progress is progress, it simply depends on which direction you wish the progress to be in. If Ireland proper was invaded, It would be understood. But the invasions took place in Wales, not to mention the Scottish forces were still clearing mines in the UKIM pass.

Anyway, as you dont seem to be interested, do you have a copy of the document in question?"
[/quote]

Wales is just as part of the Kingdom of Ireland as the island of Ireland. If you want to go by the logic of "can be used from a military stand point" then London was a military target. The Kingdom's direction is to secure a peace that is in the best interests of the Kingdom of Ireland, not to build bridges or make nice. Now, which document are you referring to? Berlin's peace terms? If so, the German representative is next to you and will be able to pass you the document."

[Centurius]

An obviously irritated Athenian delegation left the room to return a few minutes later.

"I have talked to my superiors and while we strongly disagree with the arrangement as outlined by our German 'allies' we will agree to them at this time. However the Empress has also requested me to inform Ireland of future sanctions. No Irish civilian or military unit will be allowed within the EEZ of the Federation. Likewise Irish nationals will be deported and Irish military in Athenian land will be shot as a foreign invader. Any future use of Nuclear force against civilian targets in Europe will be responded to by Athens with permanent war."

After that a paper with the signature was left on the table and the delegation departed to return home.

[quote]Signed on behalf of the Empress of the Athenian Federation,
Isabella Isai, High Envoy on European Affairs.[/quote]

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1289836666' post='2513608']
An obviously irritated Athenian delegation left the room to return a few minutes later.

"I have talked to my superiors and while we strongly disagree with the arrangement as outlined by our German 'allies' we will agree to them at this time. However the Empress has also requested me to inform Ireland of future sanctions. No Irish civilian or military unit will be allowed within the EEZ of the Federation. Likewise Irish nationals will be deported and Irish military in Athenian land will be shot as a foreign invader. Any future use of Nuclear force against civilian targets in Europe will be responded to by Athens with permanent war."

After that a paper with the signature was left on the table and the delegation departed to return home.
[/quote]

Irish security would halt the Athenian delegate before he could leave the room. Field Marshal Griffin stalked toward the man and in a terse voice spoke to the Athenian diplomat.

"Listen closely, all Athenian citizens are hereby banished from Ireland. All trade, commerce and any other commercial activity with Athens is canceled. All assets will be confiscated. No Athenian citizen will be allowed in Ireland. No Athenian plane is allowed in Irish airspace. No Athenian ship allowed in Irish waters. Your diplomats are banned from the Kingdom of Ireland along with your citizens. Ireland will continue to use nuclear weapons in Europe, on any target, when foreign invaders try to invade Ireland. If the Athenians go to war over that, then Ireland will go weapons free and use any and all weapons to destroy your country. In short, the Kingdom of Ireland is done with your ilk. Security, remove this woman from the country."

Irish Marines would then escort the Athenian delegation to the airport, and out of the country. Irish security forces then began rounding up Athenian citizens, if there were any, and began the deportation process. Assets would be frozen, and then confiscated. Ships, planes and all other commercial equipment, confiscated.

Field Marshal Griffin would return to his seat at the table and say, "With the Athenian's comments in mind, the Kingdom of Ireland can not sign a NAP with them."

Edited November 15, 2010 by Yawoo

[Centurius]

Unfortunately for the Irish no Athenian assets nor citizens ever had come to Ireland in the first place.

[Zoot Zoot]

Joona took the peace terms from the table infront of the German and signed his name before following the Greek, but not before speaking finally.
"Consider Englands stance the same as Athens. Ireland is forever blocked from trading with England, Civilian and Military shipping may not pass through Englands waters and EEZ, this includes the English half of the Channel. Your Nationals currently in England, if any, will be deported and military personel in England for wahtever reason will be arrested and taken to the border and returned to you. Irish based buisiness branches et cetera will be closed down in England. An future use of nuclear weapons in Europe will result in Englands own "weapons free" policy."

With that Joona left the room and made his way back to England.

[quote]Signed on behalf of England and the Crown
Admiral Aleski Joona
Royal Navy[/quote]

[b]A classified message was sent to Coalition Command on his return[/b]

[quote]England requests a meeting with the Commanders of the Coaltion at their earliest convenience.
Signed
Joona[/quote]

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1289837961' post='2513619']
Joona took the peace terms from the table infront of the German and signed his name before following the Greek, but not before speaking finally.
"Consider Englands stance the same as Athens. Ireland is forever blocked from trading with England, Civilian and Military shipping may not pass through Englands waters and EEZ, this includes the English half of the Channel. Your Nationals currently in England, if any, will be deported and military personel in England for wahtever reason will be arrested and taken to the border and returned to you. Irish based buisiness branches et cetera will be closed down in England. An future use of nuclear weapons in Europe will result in Englands own "weapons free" policy."

With that Joona left the room and made his way back to England.



[b]A classified message was sent to Coalition Command on his return[/b]
[/quote]


Irish security would halt the English delegate before he could leave the room. Field Marshal Griffin stalked toward the man and in a terse voice spoke to the English diplomat.

"Listen closely, all English citizens are hereby banished from Ireland. All trade, commerce and any other commercial activity with England is canceled. All assets will be confiscated. No English citizen will be allowed in Ireland. No English plane is allowed in Irish airspace. No English ship allowed in Irish waters. Your diplomats are banned from the Kingdom of Ireland along with your citizens. Ireland will continue to use nuclear weapons in Europe, on any target, when foreign invaders try to invade Ireland. If the English go to war over that, then Ireland will go weapons free and use any and all weapons to destroy your country. In short, the Kingdom of Ireland is done with your ilk. Security, remove this man from the country."

Irish Marines would then escort the English delegation to the airport, and out of the country. Irish security forces then began rounding up English citizens, if there were any, and began the deportation process. Assets would be frozen, and then confiscated. Ships, planes and all other commercial equipment, confiscated.

Field Marshal Griffin would return to his seat at the table and say, "With the English comments in mind, the Kingdom of Ireland can not sign a NAP with them."

Edited November 15, 2010 by Yawoo

[Zoot Zoot]

Unfortunately for the Irish no English assets nor citizens ever had come to Ireland in the first place.

[Justinian the Mighty]

ooc: Slavorussia would like to kick out all of your Athenian Irish and English citizens and recall all of our citizens from Athens Ireland and England unfortunately no citizens of any country in the world ever travel abroad so there's no point in making this announcement apparently. Therefore we will kick our citizens out of their own country so that they can go to another country were they can be kicked out of and sent back to us purely for our own personal "teh lulz."

Fake ooc edit: hurrdurr

[Centurius]

As quickly as they came all forces retreated back to England and from there headed back home through France, the navy moving through allied waters would return to bases in Italy and Greece. Emergency procedures in the mainland were withdrawn and the normal state returned to the Federation however resistance towards Europe was very high.

[Sal Paradise]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1289846747' post='2513693']
As quickly as they came all forces retreated back to England and from there headed back home through France, the navy moving through allied waters would return to bases in Italy and Greece. Emergency procedures in the mainland were withdrawn and the normal state returned to the Federation however resistance towards Europe was very high.
[/quote]

OOC: France is a war zone btw.

[Centurius]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1289847850' post='2513700']
OOC: France is a war zone btw.
[/quote]

OOC: They are well aware

[Kaiser Martens]

It seemed that the war had been postponed rather than truly halted as Hinna signs to make the peace effective. It is clear to her that if it were not for Berlin's attempts, things would have only gone downhill.

It would take some days to organize the aid to Ireland and England. After a week, it would begin. It would take six months for the Union to finish with its tasks. Aside from the Government's aid, a large amount of aid to the victims of the nuclear strike would come as part of civilian initiatives, shipments of donations would be sent. From critical items such as those used for radiation poisoning and cancer recovery therapy all the way to some traditional foods and drinks, shipped from Hamburg and Amsterdam.

Berlin hoped that Ireland would not push its nuclear luck again. They knew how it all would end.