Cat Land reforms again.

[SWAT128]

[quote name='Peggy_Sue' timestamp='1281150134' post='2403385']
Not knowing one of more than a dozen signatures from a treaty that sadly went the way of dinosaurs isn't relevant.
Nor is it relevant to know that the downgrade of that treaty was known on the OWF before it was known in the then-current gov offices of UPN. ... but that is just one of the reasons it is a bit sad.

Everyone knows a bit of trivia, Haf.


SWAT, I hear you found fault with not sending CMs before a ground attack? I did the same many times but didn't get to hear from you about it.
[/quote]

Maybe I just forgot to tell you.

[johnathan buck]

[quote name='Alexander The Second' timestamp='1281078216' post='2402520']

Here is locke's profile link - [URL=http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=338829] Locke[/URL]


out of 8 wonders he has not a single war wonder... no mp, no sdi... 30k NS...


[/quote]



Think you would know what a bank nation you fail hard man real hard.

Shotgun91

[Alexander The Second]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1281137242' post='2403190']
There's a good reason I don't have any war wonders; I won't be active enough or have reliable access enough to manage my nation in war time, I'll be stuck in peace mode. Been that way for the last 6 months (read [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Alestor"]my wiki[/url] if you like, it's even in my profile).

Any more questions, or are you satisfied?
[/quote]

Just one more...

how many times do you post on these forums daily?


Seem pretty active talking and researching profiles to be to inactive to fight a war or get nukes...



[quote name='johnathan buck' timestamp='1281157435' post='2403491']
Think you would know what a bank nation you fail hard man real hard.

Shotgun91
[/quote]


you can get mp and still be a banking nation... really you can... just don't buy nukes if the bills hurt that bad. Plus even with peace mode it kinda requires you to be in it to not get declared on... At the time if someone declared and sent attacks he would just get studdered down to ZI... not to effective of a tactic

Edited August 7, 2010 by Alexander The Second

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1281151210' post='2403406']
Not knowing all of them is one thing, but the ministers, most of whom were long serving members of Invicta, is another. I'm like...the only upper gov member that hadn't been there forever. Anyway, I had plenty of contact with UPN back then, but it was before you ever joined. Hell, I think you were in TPF at the time.
[/quote]
She was in TPF when you joined SOS Brigade. Yeah.

[quote name='Alexander The Second' timestamp='1281168833' post='2403586']
Just one more...

how many times do you post on these forums daily?

Seem pretty active talking and researching profiles to be to inactive to fight a war or get nukes...
[/quote]
http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Alestor#Hiatus

Check his posting history.

[Alexander The Second]

I can make a wiki saying I am the king of planet bob... the truth would be far from that.

I prefer looking at things like - Active Posts:
4,360 (8.47 per day)


And then asking how he can do that but not be capable of getting nukes and if necessary dropping a few. Figure he takes about 5-10 to read, another 2-6 minutes to post if he types really fast, just for the benefit of the doubt chop the 8 posts a day to 4 a day... war doesn't take much more then that for a day's worth in CN...

reasons he stated don't add up for me.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Alexander The Second' timestamp='1281175347' post='2403607']
I can make a wiki saying I am the king of planet bob... the truth would be far from that.

I prefer looking at things like - Active Posts:
4,360 (8.47 per day)


And then asking how he can do that but not be capable of getting nukes and if necessary dropping a few. Figure he takes about 5-10 to read, another 2-6 minutes to post if he types really fast, just for the benefit of the doubt chop the 8 posts a day to 4 a day... war doesn't take much more then that for a day's worth in CN...

reasons he stated don't add up for me.
[/quote]
He has no posts between January 26th and July 19th of this year.

One short burst of activity does not equate to suddenly being fully active again.

That's why I suggested looking at his posting history.

[Alexander The Second]

I did... but still honestly think were just gunna agree to disagree on this. I just can't see a justified reason to not have MP and SDI yet, even bill payments can be offset just by not buying nukes. Peace mode in conflict, I only see as effective if your alliance is the one declaring war, if the opposite happens nukes and sdi are good things to have on hand.

and still... for someone supporting swats reasons so strongly I believe he should have both, or just wish him luck and let it be done.

wonderful debate, love the points made.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Alexander The Second

[LokiLockpicker]

[quote name='Aimee Mann' timestamp='1281100562' post='2402653']
There's nothing wrong with the logic at all and it's pleasing to see a senator with a degree of colour-based independence who is willing to stand up for himself. If the maroon senators believe that Swat128's long service to his colour in the past is more important than a few weeks of roguery then I can understand why a sanction request from a foreign power over a relatively minor issue would be denied. It's about showing a respect for a ruler's history, and not simply branding them as the ultimate evil because they attacked a few people for a few weeks of an almost 1000 day existence.

No alliance is entitled to sanctions and it shouldn't be a formality that they are granted out of hand. If ODN or UPN or anyone else wants sway over maroon they should either have a good relationship with them, offer an incentive, or be prepared to use force. There shouldn't be an automatic 'yes' just because it's an alliance v independent ruler situation and alliances are used to simply rounding up on the lone ruler in the past because it was the easy thing to do. There are always other circumstances to consider before attacking the trade and aid of a nation and it's nice to see maroon being thoughtful about it.

... assuming that the stated reason for the denial of a sanction is the actual reason, and that it's got nothing to do with a few alliances simply taking the opportunity to thumb their noses at a few other alliances, obviously. I'm just going to have faith on this one.
[/quote]

That logic is like deciding that you shouldn't arrest a murderer because he spent 30 years helping people first, even while he is continuing to murder people in front of you.

[ahough]

I don't understand why people support Swat, it's like allowing a child to kill a bunch of kittens. (At his current NS)


How would you feel if you just started this game and someone dropped down to just screw with you?


Have you guys lost your minds...?

Edited August 8, 2010 by ahough

[SWAT128]

[quote name='ahough' timestamp='1281248988' post='2404369']
I don't understand why people support Swat, it's like allowing a child to kill a bunch of kittens. (At his current NS)


How would you feel if you just started this game and someone dropped down to just screw with you?


Have you guys lost your minds...?
[/quote]

But I never did that.

[SWAT128]

Almost to ZI...

Edited August 8, 2010 by SWAT128

[wickedj]

[quote name='ahough' timestamp='1281248988' post='2404369']
I don't understand why people support Swat, it's like allowing a child to kill a bunch of kittens. (At his current NS)


How would you feel if you just started this game and someone dropped down to just screw with you?


Have you guys lost your minds...?
[/quote]
But he didnt sell anything when he declared on UPN? they knocked him down that small

[Yuletide]

Cat land has the worst members ever. I mean swat, really?

I jest. I've never seen more of a heartwarming and just CB. Even though you have 4k ns, you have the heart of someone with... 5k ns!

[SWAT128]

Cat Land officially recognizes hostilities with Alpha Omega.

[Duncan]

[quote name='SWAT128' timestamp='1281714908' post='2414397']
Cat Land officially recognizes hostilities with Alpha Omega.
[/quote]


The Alpha Omega Member attacking you did so without authorization and was suspended yesterday pending an expulsion review by the Triumvirate.

[SWAT128]

[quote name='Duncan' timestamp='1281720584' post='2414502']
The Alpha Omega Member attacking you did so without authorization and was suspended yesterday pending an expulsion review by the Triumvirate.
[/quote]

Understood. I'll be in touch with you soon.

[kulomascovia]

Hmm, so Maroon senators condone roguery now? Interesting.

[SWAT128]

Cat Land officially recognizes hostilities with The United Nations.

[Un4Gvn1]

[quote name='Duncan' timestamp='1281720584' post='2414502']
The Alpha Omega Member attacking you did so without authorization and was suspended yesterday pending an expulsion review by the Triumvirate.
[/quote]

Hello Duncan!
Is raiding a nation that isn't in an alliance against AO's charter?



Hi SWAT!

[Tiberius]

[quote name='kulomascovia' timestamp='1281732371' post='2414760']
Hmm, so Maroon senators condone roguery now? Interesting.
[/quote]
Im guessing they are looking at the bigger picture that by sanctioning a Nation on Maroon will affect other Maroon Nations. I know from my time on Maroon that its hard as hell to get trades there. While you may think that sanctioning him will do anything trust me it won't. Im pretty sure SWAT has made enough friends in this game that he will be able to get a secret uranium trade and then continue Nuking UPN Nations. Think of the wider picture and open your eyes.

[SWAT128]

[quote name='Peggy_Sue' timestamp='1281884740' post='2416670']
Hello Duncan!
Is raiding a nation that isn't in an alliance against AO's charter?



Hi SWAT!
[/quote]


But I am in an alliance.

[wickedj]

So, i presume SWAT is either PZI'd or EZI'd?

[kulomascovia]

[quote name='Tornado' timestamp='1281885059' post='2416673']
Im guessing they are looking at the bigger picture that by sanctioning a Nation on Maroon will affect other Maroon Nations. I know from my time on Maroon that its hard as hell to get trades there. While you may think that sanctioning him will do anything trust me it won't. Im pretty sure SWAT has made enough friends in this game that he will be able to get a secret uranium trade and then continue Nuking UPN Nations. Think of the wider picture and open your eyes.
[/quote]

I think someone said that he was not sanctioned because of his service to maroon, not because of an issue with trades. And as someone pointed out, this is akin to letting a murderer go free because he has done some "nice" things. No matter what he may have done in the past, punishment should be given according to his current actions. My point was that maroon senators, by refusing to sanction a rogue, have shown that roguery is indeed justifiable in cases in which the rogue is someone they like and in which the victim is an alliance they dislike.

[Tiberius]

[quote name='kulomascovia' timestamp='1281900720' post='2416874']
I think someone said that he was not sanctioned because of his service to maroon, not because of an issue with trades. And as someone pointed out, this is akin to letting a murderer go free because he has done some "nice" things. No matter what he may have done in the past, punishment should be given according to his current actions. My point was that maroon senators, by refusing to sanction a rogue, have shown that roguery is indeed justifiable in cases in which the rogue is someone they like and in which the victim is an alliance they dislike.
[/quote]
Through trading with other Maroon members he has shown a service to the sphere. He may also have done other beneficial things for the sphere such as set up trade circles etc..
Unlike most spheres Maroon will not keel into demands from Alliances, other than being unable to purchase Nukes what will a sanction achieve? If you can give a good reason and not a !@#$%^&* one like it will show Maroon is against Rogues then I will understand your angle, however I just don't and doubt there will be a good reason to deprive 4 Nations of important trade. I am pretty sure UPN are big enough to handle SWAT, if that means getting a Nuke owning Nation to drop to his level then so be it. UPN members joined for protection and the UPN alliance should be able to give that if it offers it to its members.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Tornado

[kulomascovia]

[quote name='Tornado' timestamp='1281901181' post='2416882']
Through trading with other Maroon members he has shown a service to the sphere. He may also have done other beneficial things for the sphere such as set up trade circles etc..
Unlike most spheres Maroon will not keel into demands from Alliances, other than being unable to purchase Nukes what will a sanction achieve? If you can give a good reason and not a !@#$%^&* one like it will show Maroon is against Rogues then I will understand your angle, however I just don't and doubt there will be a good reason to deprive 4 Nations of important trade. I am pretty sure UPN are big enough to handle SWAT, if that means getting a Nuke owning Nation to drop to his level then so be it. UPN members joined for protection and the UPN alliance should be able to give that if it offers it to its members.
[/quote]

Actually, if you read it (it's a couple of pages behind) you'll see that the reason for not sanctioning him is that he used to be an important person on maroon. It has nothing to do with trades. One good reason for sanctioning him is that his income decreases, his bills increase, and any military bonuses he might have gotten will disappear. Of course UPN can handle swat. But it doesn't really have anything to do with my claim that Maroon senators condone roguery.