Peace for NONE

[Rooman33]

Your energies would be better expended on more productive concerns.

I'm not concerned with your two-dozen man alliance. In fact, I single-handedly ended our war with your small alliance specifically because I was not interested in fooling with you.

We're not trying to tell you how to run your little group. We don't care what you do. We really don't. Don't kid yourself, you're not that important to us. You weren't even on our radar screen until someone suggested (24 hours before we declared) that we hit NONE as our next war. All we're saying is that "how you do things" caused you to be targeted because, if you weren't using a glitched AA, we would have realized you were 1/4 our size and never attacked. It's as simple of that. I think by now everyone can see through your attempts to make this one day war into something bigger than it was, something more than it was. It was a mistake. I mistake I apologized for - but one which never would have happened if not for your employment of the AA glitch. I'm not telling you what AA to fly. I do NOT care what you do. All I'm doing is explaining, very plainly for those who understand English, how it is we made the mistake of attacking an alliance 1/4 our size. Yet, you continue with the sanctimonious dribble. I'm not letting it stand. We can go back in forth ad infinitum. It's not happening. I'm not going to let you misrepresent what happened, misrepresent us.

I realize these little conflicts are good PR for you, and to you like to keep these types of discussions going as long as you can... but in this instance, I think you're just making yourself look bad. We targeted you because we made a mistake - a mistake made possible because of your employment of a glitched AA, but a mistake nonetheless. We immediately realized the mistake, apologized, and offered peace. Instead of being reasonable about it, you're trying to pretend like this was some super sekrit plot to "bend you to our will," like we don't want you to organize. I'm going to say this very plainly, so that maybe you will get it this time:

The UJA does not care, at all, how NONE chooses to organize. We've only mentioned the AA glitch because it was the source of our mistake to target NONE in the first place. We don't care if NONE keeps their AA, changes their AA, disbands, grows, quits or anything else. We do NOT care. Their actions going forward are inconsequential to us and, in truth, were inconsequential before we hit them. If they had been identifiable in-game, we never would have made the mistake of hitting them - an alliance 1/4 our size.

Did you get it that time? Or are we going to go through another round of your pompous and fallacious allegations? Seriously, as I said earlier, the holier than thou bit is getting old and wearing thin.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Rooman33

[Walford]

For someone who doesn't care about us, you sure are banging the hell out of your keyboard on our behalf.

We have three options: create a traditional alliance, hide amongst the other non-aligned or make ourselves distinguishable from the other non-aligned. We have opted for the latter.

Your approval is not required.

Have a nice day.

[Rooman33]

For someone who doesn't care about us, you sure are banging the hell out of your keyboard on our behalf.

We have three options: create a traditional alliance, hide amongst the other non-aligned or make ourselves distinguishable from the other non-aligned. We have opted for the latter.

Your approval is not required.

Have a nice day.

Wow, even when it's in bold, you can't read:

The UJA does not care, at all, how NONE chooses to organize. We've only mentioned the AA glitch because it was the source of our mistake to target NONE in the first place. We don't care if NONE keeps their AA, changes their AA, disbands, grows, quits or anything else. We do NOT care. Their actions going forward are inconsequential to us and, in truth, were inconsequential before we hit them. If they had been identifiable in-game, we never would have made the mistake of hitting them - an alliance 1/4 our size.

Do as you please, we don't care. I'm merely replying here to prevent you from misrepresenting us. And I will continue "banging my keyboard" for as long as it takes.

[Walford]

Well, yes you do care and plan to force us to bend to your will one way or the other. Force hasn't worked. Haranguing us in the forums hasn't worked, so you have stated that you intend to petition Admins to intervene so we can no longer distinguish ourselves amongst the other non-aligned. Your object is to make it so we will then be left with the choice of creating an alliance that you approve of or sinking in hiding amongst the other non-aligned.

You are trying to force us to play the game the way you want us to.

You will fail.

[Rooman33]

Well, yes you do care and plan to force us to bend to your will one way or the other. Force hasn't worked. Haranguing us in the forums hasn't worked, so you have stated that you intend to petition Admins to intervene so we can no longer distinguish ourselves amongst the other non-aligned. Your object is to make it so we will then be left with the choice of creating an alliance that you approve of or sinking in hiding amongst the other non-aligned.

You are trying to force us to play the game the way you want us to.

You will fail.

Dude, get over yourself and face reality. We don't care what you do, and don't intend to force you to do anything. You're a sub-20 man alliance hiding behind an AA glitch... you need to get over the delusion that you're relevant. We don't care about NONE, we don't know NONE, we don't expect to ever cross paths with NONE in the future. If it weren't for the fact that your size is hidden behind an AA glitch, we never would have crossed paths with you in the first place.

Your attempts to make it seem like we're "out to get you" are either flat lies and propaganda or blaring ignorance. At this point, I honestly can't tell which.

OOC: Yes, we will be reporting the AA glitch to admin so that future misunderstandings like this don't happen again. We don't care what you do (or don't do) in response.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Rooman33

[Walford]

Yes, we will be reporting the AA glitch to admin so that future misunderstandings like this don't happen again. We don't care what you do (or don't do) in response.

It is by no means a foregone conclusion that Admins will comply with your request to deny us the ability to distinguish ourselves from the other non-aligned. But we will make our case for keeping things as they are. We don't want to create an alliance and would rather not revert to hiding amongst the non-aligned again.

The last time we did that in Standard, a coalition of tech-raiding alliances banded together for the express purpose of hunting us down and either forcing us to create an alliance they approved of or driving us from the game altogether.

Only a fraction of us survived that series of devastating wars. A very hard-core fraction.

NONE is a haven for non-aligned who wish to connect with each other and VOLUNTARILY offer protection/support, but not have to deal with participating in a government and other things that independent nations hate.

A typical NONE member will have been an independent nation who came to the aid of his buddy under attack by a wimp who hides behind an alliance while victimizing the non-aligned. Then he found himself and his buddy being gang-attacked by the alliance and demands made that the attacked nation and his defender apologize, change AA to POW status, pay extortion, etc. Why? Because non-aligned are not allowed to defend each other.

NONE provides an alternative to independent nations who are willing to work together and fight to the bitter end.

All nations in TE currently have three very distinct choices:

Be in an alliance

Be an isolated independent

Be in NONE

You aim to deny us all one of those choices. Not without a fight you won't.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Walford

[Rooman33]

It is by no means a foregone conclusion that Admins will comply with your request to deny us the ability to distinguish ourselves from the other non-aligned. But we will make our case for keeping things as they are. We don't want to create an alliance and would rather not revert to hiding amongst the non-aligned again.

That's fine, but we'd be remiss were we not to point out the glitch.

The last time we did that in Standard, a coalition of tech-raiding alliances banded together for the express purpose of hunting us down and either forcing us to create an alliance they approved of or driving us from the game altogether.

Only a fraction of us survived that series of devastating wars. A very hard-core fraction.

Ok...

NONE is a haven for non-aligned who wish to connect with each other and VOLUNTARILY offer protection/support, but not have to deal with participating in a government and other things that independent nations hate.

This is no different from any other alliance. I know of very few alliances on Steve where membership and compliance are mandatory.

A typical NONE member will have been an independent nation who came to the aid of his buddy under attack by a wimp who hides behind an alliance while victimizing the non-aligned. Then he found himself and his buddy being gang-attacked by the alliance and demands made that the attacked nation and his defender apologize, change AA to POW status, pay extortion, etc. Why? Because non-aligned are not allowed to defend each other.

We really don't care if you defend each other. But if you're going to lump yourselves with all unaligneds, then your alliance size is over 360, not below 20. And our attack on you was not a curb stomp. Clearly that's not the case. Let's not be disingenuous here.

NONE provides an alternative to independent nations who are willing to work together and fight to the bitter end.

All nations in TE currently have three very distinct choices:

Be in an alliance

Be an isolated independent

Be in NONE

You aim to deny us all one of those choices. Not without a fight you won't.

We're not trying to deny you anything, get it through your head.

We

do

NOT

care

OOC: We don't care what you do in response our reporting the AA glitch to admin. Respond however you feel necessary.

IC: Whatever. Stop pretending like we're "out to get you." This isn't a conspiracy. The 60+ nations of the the UJA did not get together and form this massive conspiracy to "bend NONE to our will." As has been explained over a dozen times now, we attacked you because we overestimated your numbers, and we overestimated your numbers because your actual size was hidden behind an AA glitch. As soon as we realized you were 1/4 our size (less than a full day into our attacks on you) we apologized and offered peace and you've done nothing but smear our name and lie about our intentions since.

If we really wanted to wipe you out, as you claim, we would have done it We were well on our way. But we're opposed to curb-stomps, so we withdrew the instant we realized that's what was happening.

OOC: To avoid further fiascoes like this, we're going to report the AA glitch to admin and explain the confusion and trouble it has caused. How you do or don't respond to it is your own business. We couldn't care less.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Rooman33

[Folger Soldier]

This is getting out of hand...

Walford, I can appreciate your dedication and stead-fast support to your alliance, but Roo is not attacking you in any way. We all simply want to see this thread come to a respectable end. Roo made a mistake, and he's a good man for admitting it, and he's not suggesting that you turn your original alliance into "one of us".

Roo, I know you're trying hard to end this on good terms, but it will take the both of you agreeing to do so.

This thread needs to end.

[Dochartaigh]

hahahahahahahahaha. Walford can always entertain and ensure that he turns himself into a victim/martyr/Jesus of TE now i guess. honestly, your best option with Walford is to ignore him. plain and simple. anything you say to him, he will twist far better than any spin man i have ever seen. sure it will make little to no sense except in Walford's world, but it will sure as hell be frustrating to you and amusing to the rest of us.

[Lochiel]

Walford, I can appreciate your dedication and stead-fast support to your alliance, but Roo is not attacking you in any way. ......

..... Roo made a mistake, and he's a good man for admitting it, and he's not suggesting that you turn your original alliance into "one of us".

He also gave you, Walford, a chance to promote you group in an honourable way

you seriously missed that chance with your arrogant and ungracious posts here.

Roo took the time to re-asses the situation between youselves & UJA

He was respectful - and apologetic to your group

Dude, seriously... get over yourself. You're not a martyr or a crusader.

You have a vastly over inflated sense of self and worth.

It took a long time before he eventually retorted with the absolute truth ^Above^

NONE was an amusing little idea - which had some merit - It's credibility is disappearing with every post you make.

If ever a group DESERVED to be Curbstomped in TE - it's Your's

I WON'T call you an Alliance - and your posts here show that you are merely a minor irritant.

This will be my ONLY post on this thread btw

Edited October 9, 2009 by Lochiel

[Walford]

That's fine, but we'd be remiss were we not to point out the glitch.

There is no glitch. We are non-aligned who have decided to band together and distinguish ourselves from the others so those who wish to avoid us can do so

This is no different from any other alliance. I know of very few alliances on Steve where membership and compliance are mandatory.

You will not force us to adhere to your definition of an alliance. We are organized non-aligned with no government. Those who join us are only asked to reserve their military capacity for mutual defense.

We really don't care if you defend each other. But if you're going to lump yourselves with all unaligneds, then your alliance size is over 360, not below 20. And our attack on you was not a curb stomp. Clearly that's not the case. Let's not be disingenuous here.

Yes, you explained that you were looking for an evenly matched contest [after your initial sneak attack before and after update of course]. You were frustrated that you could not easily determine our numbers and demanded a roster. We responded by giving you hints on how to figure that out for yourself. Other groups that tangled with us were able to figure this out w/o any hints and they avoid us. They didn't go wringing their hands on the forums and planning to whine to admins to stop our terribly unfair practice that allows us to survive on our terms.

We're not trying to deny you anything, get it through your head.

We

do

NOT

care

We don't care what you do in response our reporting the AA glitch to admin. Respond however you feel necessary.

Regardless of your intention, if we are denied the option of distinguishing ourselves from the other non-aligned we will be forced to hide amongst them again. This angered the tech-raiding alliances who said that we were baiting them. So we were hunted down. The consequence of this was we lost many dozens of friends whom we shall never see again because they quit the game rather than comply.

We have found a way to avoid being in an alliance while at the same time providing a means for tech-raiders to avoid us. I am telling you that your intended action will result in this option being taken away. That is a fact.

Stop pretending like we're "out to get you." This isn't a conspiracy. The 60+ nations of the the UJA did not get together and form this massive conspiracy to "bend NONE to our will." As has been explained over a dozen times now, we attacked you because we overestimated your numbers, and we overestimated your numbers because your actual size was hidden behind an AA glitch. As soon as we realized you were 1/4 our size (less than a full day into our attacks on you) we apologized and offered peace and you've done nothing but smear our name and lie about our intentions since.

If we really wanted to wipe you out, as you claim, we would have done it We were well on our way. But we're opposed to curb-stomps, so we withdrew the instant we realized that's what was happening.

Yes, you beat us up, robbed us of tech, land and cash, then apologized when you found that the fight wouldn't be as sporting as you hoped. We never asked for any apology nor did we ask for mercy. We take on all comers.

And now you intend to subject us to operating in conditions that nearly wiped us out once again. If are forced to hide amongst the non-aligned and be subject to extermination as a result, we will conduct ourselves accordingly.

To avoid further fiascoes like this, we're going to report the AA glitch to admin and explain the confusion and trouble it has caused. How you do or don't respond to it is your own business. We couldn't care less.

Other alliances that have tangled with us before have figured out how to avoid us because we are distinguishable from the other non-aligned. We didn't have to explain it to them as we did with you. They didn't become all outraged at how we distinguish ourselves or complain that we are exploiting a glitch -- which is a left-handed way of saying that we are cheating.

Let's sum things up here; you attack us w/o provocation and expect all to be forgiven.

You insult us by accusing us of cheating.

You tell us that you plan to subject us to being forced to surrender our sovereignty by forming a traditional alliance or operating under conditions that nearly wiped us out before.

Forgive me for not being gracious about this.

[Dochartaigh]

There is no glitch. We are non-aligned who have decided to band together and distinguish ourselves from the others so those who wish to avoid us can do so

You will not force us to adhere to your definition of an alliance. We are organized non-aligned with no government. Those who join us are only asked to reserve their military capacity for mutual defense.

seriously? really? if you have banded together, then you have *wait for it people* aligned yourself with others. which means you are no longer non-aligned. Fact is, whether you to realize it or not, non-aligned are called non-aligned due to the fact that they stick to themselves and have not banded together in any way. You have decided to make a group of people willing to defend one another against outside attacks in which you are the main spokesperson. which means that you have made at least what can be considered a pseudo-alliance. so please just get over yourselves in stating you will not conform to anything.

the only thing you won't conform to, is not using a glitch to mask your AA which makes it more difficult to find your members. other than that, you have an alliance that is akin to LSF. so yes, you are a conformists in ways and non-conformists in others.

[Walford]

I have been asked to stop my end of this conversation by my comrades and I shall comply.

My opinions are my own.

Attempts to deny the in-game options that allow us to survive on our terms will be resisted. I fully recognize that Admins have ultimate authority on how the game operates. If need be, we in NONE will adjust accordingly with our sovereignty being the ultimate object as always.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Walford

[Rooman33]

There is no glitch.

Please provide for me, then, the in-game listing and analysis of everyone flying the NONE AA... I'll wait...

We are non-aligned who have decided to band together and distinguish ourselves from the others so those who wish to avoid us can do so

You will not force us to adhere to your definition of an alliance. We are organized non-aligned with no government. Those who join us are only asked to reserve their military capacity for mutual defense.

Call yourselves whatever you want... you're an alliance in everything but name, apparently.

Yes, you explained that you were looking for an evenly matched contest [after your initial sneak attack before and after update of course].

That's how wars are fought Walford, welcome to Steve.

You were frustrated that you could not easily determine our numbers and demanded a roster.

No, that's not true at all. I demanded a roster when you started whining that your numbers were a lot smaller than we thought they were. I wanted proof that what you were saying was true instead of having to spend the two hours (which I did) digging through 360+ unaligned nations to find those flying the NONE AA.

We responded by giving you hints on how to figure that out for yourself.

Hints? Seriously? Who do you think you are?

Other groups that tangled with us were able to figure this out w/o any hints and they avoid us. They didn't go wringing their hands on the forums and planning to whine to admins to stop our terribly unfair practice that allows us to survive on our terms.

Yet another false mischaracterization. The only one whining here is you.

Regardless of your intention, if we are denied the option of distinguishing ourselves from the other non-aligned we will be forced to hide amongst them again.

If the AA glitch is fixed... you will be distinguished from the unaligned nations... that's the whole point, you're currently not distinguished from the unaligned natuions unless someone wants to sift through nearly 400 nations manually, looking at each nation's AA.

This angered the tech-raiding alliances who said that we were baiting them. So we were hunted down. The consequence of this was we lost many dozens of friends whom we shall never see again because they quit the game rather than comply.

We have found a way to avoid being in an alliance

No you haven't. You're a group of people who defend each other, have forums, embassies, leaders, etc. You're an alliance.

while at the same time providing a means for tech-raiders to avoid us. I am telling you that your intended action will result in this option being taken away. That is a fact.

No, it's not a fact. OOC: If admin fixes the glitch, you'll still be listed as NONE, but you will be distinguished from the unaligned nations which is what you claim to want.

Yes, you beat us up, robbed us of tech, land and cash, then apologized when you found that the fight wouldn't be as sporting as you hoped. We never asked for any apology nor did we ask for mercy. We take on all comers.

Yet you continue to baawwwww...

Edited October 9, 2009 by Rooman33

[Rooman33]

And now you intend to subject us to operating in conditions that nearly wiped us out once again.

We don't intend to subject you to anything. OOC: There is a glitch in the game that we would like to see fixed. How you respond to our efforts to fix that glitch is your own business.

If are forced to hide amongst the non-aligned and be subject to extermination as a result, we will conduct ourselves accordingly.

Other alliances that have tangled with us before have figured out how to avoid us because we are distinguishable from the other non-aligned.

Only through a direct nation search. There are over 360 "none" nations. OOC: NONE =/= and so the game needs to be able to distinguish between None and NONE.

We didn't have to explain it to them as we did with you. They didn't become all outraged at how we distinguish ourselves or complain that we are exploiting a glitch -- which is a left-handed way of saying that we are cheating.

No one is "outraged at how you conduct yourselves," I'm outraged that you keep misrepresenting our intentions and actions. And I will keep correcting you for as long as necessary.

Let's sum things up here; you attack us w/o provocation and expect all to be forgiven.

We attacked you because we incorrectly estimated your size, and our estimate was incorrect because your alliance size is hidden by the AA glitch.

You insult us by accusing us of cheating.

I don't believe I ever once said you were cheating.

You tell us that you plan to subject us to being forced to surrender our sovereignty by forming a traditional alliance or operating under conditions that nearly wiped us out before.

I never once said anything of the sort and, on the contrary, explicitly said that I couldn't care less about what you do.

Forgive me for not being gracious about this.

It's the lack of reason and maturity that bothers me, not so much the grace.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Rooman33

[Rooman33]

I have been asked to stop my end of this conversation by my comrades and I shall comply.

My opinions are my own.

Attempts to deny the in-game options that allow us to survive on our terms will be resisted. I fully recognize that Admins have ultimate authority on how the game operates. If need be, we in NONE will adjust accordingly with our sovereignty being the ultimate object as always.

We're not trying to deny you anything. OOC: Our planned appeal to admin is nothing more than our wanting to fix a flaw in the game which makes it impossible to analyze NONE nations separately from None nations. Glad to see this conversation has come to a close.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Rooman33

[King MyLife]

Why Wilford or Walford (whatever) must keep on with insults after the man admits to his mistakes...Sounds like he really wants to get his alliance %^& kicked...Dude just take the apology and move on...You keep on with this and you will be looking for the great CURBSTOMP..Which i hope is ordered for you can shut yout %^&%*&@ mouth..

Edited October 10, 2009 by mylife125

[HisK Owns You]

Walford you really need to stop...

[jhannaway]

So let me get this straight.

NONE is not an alliance according to Walford.

It makes total sense... because None members don't fly the same AA.... oh wait

Well, at least they don't have forums... nevermind

I guess you can't be an alliance if you don't have anyone in charge/speaking for you.... oops

Surely since None isn't an alliance they wouldn't have any rules/foreign policies/embassies etc...

Well I guess since they are truely unaligned they wouldn't ever have reason to communicate or support/defend each other...

Can someone please explain to me how they aren't an alliance? As much as they seem to not want to admit it I can't think of how they are any different than any other alliance in TE (perhaps minus a DoE I haven't checked to see if they have one)

Besides the fact that in TE anyone can be attacked at any time for any reason. UJD was doing you a favor when they realized you were vastly outnumbered. As for the sneak attack/update hits, every single alliance does that before an attack. Why would an alliance post a DoW before they hit their opponent? They would lose a huge strategical/tactical advantage for doing so.

Your policies are your own choices, but whether you want to believe it or not you are taking advantage of a glitch and you have to deal with both the benefits and consequences of that decision.

[NinjaPirate]

Rooman maybe you should just finish Walldorf's alliance once and for all

[Walford]

Alright, I have dropped out of this discussion, but everybody wants to keep beating this dead horse.

We have forums so we can communicate with each other and coordinate defense.

We have ONE policy; our military is used for defense only. Those who start wars are not eligible for protection and may even be kicked off our message board.

We don't have a government and nobody can be ordered into battle. That is all voluntary.

Originally, we flew different flags, were on different color teams and our alliance affiliation was "None" just like all the other non-aligned who operated in isolation.

As a courtesy to those who wish to avoid us, we found a way to distinguish ourselves from the other non-aligned.

As a courtesy to those who wish to establish diplomatic relations, we have allowed outsiders into our forums and establish embassies.

We didn't have to do any of this, but we offered these compromises for those who have been reasonable with us.

I'm sorry if you all don't like the way we operate.

I'm sorry if you think that the non-aligned are not allowed to connect with each other, give each other advice and have the option of defending each other if they choose.

It is such a pity that when considering whom to attack, you cannot click on one link to see who we all are, how strong we are, our activity levels, etc. That is because we are not an alliance.

Would you like us to go back underground? That can be arranged.

You can threaten us, you can attack us, you can create walls of text, you can sanction us, you can nuke us, you can say "you are an alliance" 10,000 times etc. etc. It won't make any difference.

We are NONE and will remain so.

No matter what you do, no matter what you say, no matter how many you are, no matter how strong you are, no matter how hysterical you become, we will still be here playing they game the way we see fit.

Period.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Walford

[partymaster]

You can threaten us, you can attack us, you can create walls of text, you can sanction us, you can nuke us, you can say "you are an alliance" 10,000 times etc. etc. It won't make any difference.

We are NONE and will remain so.

No matter what you do, no matter what you say, no matter how many you are, no matter how strong you are, no matter how hysterical you become, we will still be here playing they game the way we see fit.

Period.

That is what I like to see, alliances being themselves

[Elric]

Everybody seems to be hung up on the word alliance. I would say NONE acts more like a coalition. They share ideas and information, and when a nation in their coalition is attacked, individual nations can volunteer to defend the nation that was attacked. In essence it is a network of nations that tries to put together a group to defend their friends when needed. They have no other known, coordinated goals or political strategies that I am aware of. NONE does not engage in any offensive wars. So although they do have some features of a traditional alliance, NONE also lacks some of the basic features of a traditional alliance... Maybe everybody can meet in the middle and stop arguing about this?