magicninja

I woulda said hegemonious but hey I guess that's why we can't get along.

Maybe people do accept info all the time. I've never had the luxery personally. Still you don't see them open ly showing it or advertising that they do. Why? Because there are consequences for doing it. That has always been known. So maybe you do it but you just don't get caught but when you do you have to pay the piper. "Everyone" doing it does not make it right. Not in the least.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t=0&start=0 http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t=0&start=0 These were just in the last few weeks. So what has changed since then?

Get in line why don't you?

Since that one was used as defense for why some in tC have gotten info then yes I would say it makes a difference. Even then I think it was about spying or plotting or whatever so even that still fell under the defense of your own alliance that I brought up earlier. However, in this case the guy took it knowingly. He could have said no. FFS the guy could have said no.

If my allies go to war over it I will back them up on it.

Then you misunderstand me Sponge. I'm saying if you got a real beef then do it. You should stand up and do what's right for yourself. Pacifica is obviously doing it. All of you have the same right. I understand how you got that impression. After all it is me. I'm not trying to "bait" anyone into attacking. If you feel wronged then fight. Pacifica feels wronged. They're fighting to keep their alliance secure. Though with you on the case they have a steep hill to climb. If you don't mind people passing info about your alliance around, fine. Do nothing. That is your right too. Don't look down upon those who won't stand for it though.

He didn't receive it from a leak or disgruntled Pacifican. He took it straight from a known spy ring. I'll say it again if anyone can prove that NPO took screenies from someone knowing what they were getting then by all means give Pacifica your thoughts on who is responsible and what the punishment is.

I didn't say I agreed with their interrogation tactics. I only said they had a right to submit to the offenders a punishment that they believe is fit. the same as MK would have the right to punish them as they see fit. You may not have noticed but Pacifica is a target for spies. I'm sure they have more than the average alliance ya know per capita. So if I were them I would want to make a firm but not too overbearing punishment to at least try to deter any further spying. We all know it won't work and VOX and every other spy organization will continue to target them but hey sometimes you need to make your mark and enforce it or else nobody would care if they accepted screenies of NPO's forums any more because all you will have to do is put up a public apology and stay away from gov for awhile. Seems a bit unfair to me to ask someone to play soft like that. Especially when it involves alliance security.

So you don't mind spying on any level?

Well it seems to be the reasonable approach. Here's you a few posts back: "It's all a moot point because while NPO is certainly willing to do something about it when other people do it to them, no one is willing to do something about it when NPO does it. We can sit here and complain about it until we're blue in the face but until someone steps up and does something to stop all this nonsense nothing is going to change." What's the difference between what I said and you said?

Then prosecute. No one is stopping you. You must have the evidence since you were party to it. Step and Let them have it. If you don't want to you're either scared or not bothered by it. Both very troubling if it's coming from you.

I know, but it was right in his mind. Which is the point. Everyone has a different standard to grade crime and punishment. Either the offending alliance takes the punishment or fights it. I'm hoping for fights even if I would've accepted the single ZI for myself if I had done the deed. I probably would expel a member from my own alliance for being so foolhardy to put the whole alliance at risk for being curious. You have a right to say what punishment is fair to those that wrong you. I won't fuss. Just give everyone the same respect.

Spies even on this level used to be perma-zi'd. I believe NPO offered up a single ZI(with the no selling infra restriction, yes) and that was that. In all fairness each alliance can dictate punishment as they see fit. If a single ZI is what NPO wants maybe people could respect it? No? Well of course it wouldn't be asking too much if it was tailsk wanting to ZI AUT and destroy Soldier for a few comments on IRC which is by far a way less crime then spying. Hell it wouldn't be too much to ask if it was any other alliance save those allied to NPO would it?

Well since the sides are evened up and quite possibly against Pacifica these days and with actual spying being mostly hated around here they could conceivably lose more allies if the charges were proven and severe. Then, I think a strong coalition could do it if they had their !@#$ together.

I know I quoted a movie. If you go back and have seen the flick maybe you can piece it together. If not it's no big deal. I wouldn't chastise you or anyone for accepting evidence of spying from someone else. I would only look at you cross if you were sending out spies to try to find some sensitive intel on another alliance that was meant to aid you in some other way.

We don't know but the only info they used in this case was to defend their alliance. That much has been shown.

Maybe to an extent. However, the guy actively stuck out his arm and accepted the package. He wasn't tricked into it or anything. That's the point.

Fine, then everyone does it but it's only a problem if you get caught right? I wouldn't take screenies of Vanguard's forums if they were offered up. I would take poroof of Stumpy spying on us. "I may be a !@#$%^& but I'm not a !@#$@#$ !@#$%^&."-George Cloooney, From Dusk til Dawn You're sick man.

I hear things. Hell this war was supposed to start in late February.

I agree. Loose lips sink ships. Well tell me then KingSrqt, if someone came to you and said hey I got evidence this guy is spying on you for so and so...would you take it? How about any of you? Would you take it? Now if someone came to you and said hey I got screenies of this alliance's gov forums do you want a peek? Would you take it? Which seems more wrong in your mind?

Hey then why am I selling infra when you could be buying? Also if you want the info out there that's on you. Some may not want it out there. @potato I know what he meant. I was just showing him the difference in this situation. @azaghul The guy asked if he wanted screenies of NPO's forums and the guy said yes. He knew what he was getting. He may not have asked for it but he knew what he was getting. He actively chose to take what the guy was offering. If the guy had posted the link and said "Look at these sigs I made!" That is a different story. He wasn't actively seeking it but he got it anyway in that case.

Once you agree to accept screenies from a foreign forum you aren't passively doing anything. You've just actively sought the info. I don't think NPO would like their warchest requirements becoming common knowledge anymore than any other alliance would.

I can guess with some certainty they attained it from an unsavory character. I can't prove it though. Read my previous post.

Ok I didn't wanna split hairs but hey why not? I think there is a fundamental difference in spying to defend your alliance and spying to gain sensitive information that could help in the destruction of an alliance. Both are underhanded and in my view wrong in principle. However, I can more tolerate taking information to defend yourself. It's not like NPO is seeking screenies of Vanguard's or MK's or Rok's or Gremlins private high security forums to help them win the next war. They are trying to plug leaks in their own alliance. I think there is a difference. I'm sure those of you who wanna hate on the powers that be will want to look past the difference but hey that's why you're here.