deth2munkies
-
Posts
2,607 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Gallery
Posts posted by deth2munkies
-
-
[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1320538511' post='2839871']
If you'd bothered to do any research you'd know that Legion and Tetris have agreed to terms and Tetris is only remaining at war because NSO refuses to accept terms. Those terms are that they admit defeat. That is all.
MK and VE are now weighing in to force Legion to white peace NSO or be rolled. Legion are not being unreasonable, NSO are being stubborn and now that VE and MK have volunteered their services to roll Legion for the NSO, the NSO has no reason whatsoever to agree to any peace deal offered by Legion.
[/quote]
Yes, that is precisely what is being said by Legion but is being disputed. It also does not explain why Tetris has not received peace if that is accurate. You of all people should be aware of how the OWF bends the truth quite often and I've learned not to trust it.
The flaw in your logic is unduly blaming these two alliances when so many others can and probably would do the same. NSO has plenty of other treaties to activate, including RoK and TPF who in turn can easily chain for even more. It's quite clear many are becoming agitated by this war being prolonged past the point of usefulness, not just the two alliances here.
As I said, I'm apathetic to this whole situation. It's not something I would do, and I'm pretty certain it's a bad political move, but it's hardly "evil". I'm also of the understanding that NSO will equally be pounded (assuming they have slots left) until they wise up. At worst they become the new FAN, which I would quite enjoy given their former wit has decayed and dulled to the point of mere annoyance. -
[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1320536984' post='2839862']
Not really, after the umpteenth post telling Legion they are being unreasonable for requiring NSO to admit defeat and deserve punishment if they persist I kind of switched off. I was bleeding IQ points.
[/quote]
Nowhere in my post did I make that contention. I have no idea what terms are being thrown around, just that neither side making progress is causing problems that probably are starting to outweigh whatever the issue that lingers between them is. -
[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1320536275' post='2839853']
Yeah Legion! How dare you require the losing party to admit defeat! You are pissing people off! You are horrible and deserve to be rolled!
I think we have reached peak stupid.
[/quote]
Are you even trying anymore? It certainly doesn't seem like it. -
[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1320531039' post='2839817']
I do understand where you are coming from but take MK's allies and then their allies allies and see that the culmulative NS there is over half the NS on Bob. They are allied to the most influential alliances in the game and, by extension, are perceived as the "king."
[/quote]
They are kings in name only, anyone on their side of the web could easily have been said to be "kings". They're only kings as long as people perceive them as greater than they really are. -
[spoiler][quote name='deth2munkies' timestamp='1320528319' post='2839793']
For starters, I already talked about the topic at hand, but it's probably been lost in the shuffle so here it is:
I don't care, it kind of sucks that the Legion, after an extraordinarily rare display of valor will likely have to get hit, but if the NSO goes down too I still consider that a victory.
Now, on to the last billion pages of vitriol to sort through:
It's funny, I've noticed a lot of people railing against this announcement supported the "New Moldavi Doctrine" back when it was announced. That's what's being exercised here, that's EXACTLY what a lot of people wanted. Even in relation to this conflict, reading the first few pages of the dozens of threads on the topic, you have people crying, "Please! Escalate this conflict!" and are now throwing around moral reasons why it's wrong. The real hypocrites here are you out there in the community.
The allegations of "MK being the new NPO" have been thrown around for a while now, and to me they still lack merit for several reasons:
1) The NPO never did this before.
Not once did they intervene in a conflict in progress with a military ultimatum to find peace. If they wanted to stomp someone, they went fishing for a reason, any remotely defensible reason, to do what they did beforehand. You could cite "Breathing our air", but you realize what I am saying is the truth in the majority of the cases.
2) MK does not have a stranglehold on political power.
As much as you might perceive them to have it they really don't. They did back in Karma because people wanted them to have it. Their high level members comprise some of the most eloquent and intelligent minds on Planet Bob (even if their average member quality is markedly worse than most other alliances) and provided the rallying cry that people were waiting for. Now that the revolution has calmed down, they're just a mid-tier alliance with a good top end and decent treaty position. They're far from untouchable. The NPO at it's height was the #1 sanctioned alliance with a bloc encompassing 10 of the top 12 alliances in the game with a few more to spare. The difference here is enormous.
3) MK lacks the support structure that NPO had.
Related to point 2 but in a different way. MK's culture is markedly different from that of the NPO. While the NPO was in control, their culture overflowed and was used as an instrument to depress the populace and keep order. MK's culture is !@#$% insane, with most of the average members being glorified /b/tards. Their cult of personality is waning quickly as it is no longer supported by being the counterweight to an oppressive political culture, they will never have the dominance NPO reached, ever.
Now that we've gotten that out of the way, let's talk about interference in political affairs:
As much as you don't want to admit it, both parties involved in this have a stake in the conflict. Due to treaty chaining, both would eventually be pulled in to any escalating conflict. As this larger conflict would serve no purpose to the two alliances in question and indeed could cause damage to their allies who might end up on opposite sides, it is politically prudent for them to take this course of action, as morally reprehensible as you may think it is.
[/quote][/spoiler]
Considering I literally just made a post on this subject, here it is.
You also allude to, but don't understand one of the fundamental points of Karma:
It was never about morality triumphing over evil, it was about revenge. The NPO pissed a lot of people off but managed to keep enough influence to keep them at bay and there was a breaking point. We were pissed off and weren't trying or willing to establish a new world order, and quite frankly, such a thing never came into existence despite the incoherent ramblings of many, including you.
It's my personal opinion that MK is no longer a place I would feel at home, but it has nothing to do with the reasons you listed. -
[quote name='Flonker' timestamp='1320528912' post='2839799']
This situation was in zero danger of escalating. The time for further escalation is over a month past. And besides, they're not even using the excuse 'to prevent further escalation' in any of their propaganda.
Thank you for playing, sir, and please pick up your cheap lovely parting gift on the way out.
[/quote]
That would be because I'm not spewing propaganda, but analyzing the situation.
You're pissing off a lot of people by not peacing out NSO. Whether you like it or not, escalation is being discussed. I don't know anyone close enough to the Legion to say with any specificity what precisely the negotiations have been like or whose fault all of this is. Frankly, I don't care. If you'd like to ignore facts that's fine, but that's literally all I posted barring my initial recap of my personal opinion. -
For starters, I already talked about the topic at hand, but it's probably been lost in the shuffle so here it is:
I don't care, it kind of sucks that the Legion, after an extraordinarily rare display of valor will likely have to get hit, but if the NSO goes down too I still consider that a victory.
Now, on to the last billion pages of vitriol to sort through:
It's funny, I've noticed a lot of people railing against this announcement supported the "New Moldavi Doctrine" back when it was announced. That's what's being exercised here, that's EXACTLY what a lot of people wanted. Even in relation to this conflict, reading the first few pages of the dozens of threads on the topic, you have people crying, "Please! Escalate this conflict!" and are now throwing around moral reasons why it's wrong. The real hypocrites here are you out there in the community.
The allegations of "MK being the new NPO" have been thrown around for a while now, and to me they still lack merit for several reasons:
1) The NPO never did this before.
Not once did they intervene in a conflict in progress with a military ultimatum to find peace. If they wanted to stomp someone, they went fishing for a reason, any remotely defensible reason, to do what they did beforehand. You could cite "Breathing our air", but you realize what I am saying is the truth in the majority of the cases.
2) MK does not have a stranglehold on political power.
As much as you might perceive them to have it they really don't. They did back in Karma because people wanted them to have it. Their high level members comprise some of the most eloquent and intelligent minds on Planet Bob (even if their average member quality is markedly worse than most other alliances) and provided the rallying cry that people were waiting for. Now that the revolution has calmed down, they're just a mid-tier alliance with a good top end and decent treaty position. They're far from untouchable. The NPO at it's height was the #1 sanctioned alliance with a bloc encompassing 10 of the top 12 alliances in the game with a few more to spare. The difference here is enormous.
3) MK lacks the support structure that NPO had.
Related to point 2 but in a different way. MK's culture is markedly different from that of the NPO. While the NPO was in control, their culture overflowed and was used as an instrument to depress the populace and keep order. MK's culture is !@#$% insane, with most of the average members being glorified /b/tards. Their cult of personality is waning quickly as it is no longer supported by being the counterweight to an oppressive political culture, they will never have the dominance NPO reached, ever.
Now that we've gotten that out of the way, let's talk about interference in political affairs:
As much as you don't want to admit it, both parties involved in this have a stake in the conflict. Due to treaty chaining, both would eventually be pulled in to any escalating conflict. As this larger conflict would serve no purpose to the two alliances in question and indeed could cause damage to their allies who might end up on opposite sides, it is politically prudent for them to take this course of action, as morally reprehensible as you may think it is. -
[quote name='RustyNail' timestamp='1320424165' post='2838412']
I twitter with antici...........................................................pation
This made my Friday even better than it already was.
[/quote]
Damn you, I'd just gotten that song out of my head.
Plus, I'm writing a comprehensive thesis (OOC: Research Paper) on Metaphysics this weekend, so if anything starts up I won't be able to be around the forums as much as I'd like. -
Very interesting approach, it must have taken a lot to make this happen, and I'm eager to see the results.
Also, the way I'm reading it, both parties are going to get stomped on if they don't work it out, not just one side, so everyone criticizing that should reread.
EDIT: I'm going to preempt this argument right now:
"But the Legion is winning, so this is just a threat to make them offer less harsh terms."
Go look at the treaty web and try to make that argument again, and you'll see why it fails so mightily. Just because allies haven't come in yet doesn't mean it's out of the realm of possibility, and from the looks of it, both sides' allies are beginning to get annoyed. -
I love both of you guys, and I'm glad to see that OBR is running around still doing stuff, haven't heard from anyone but Hime in a looong time.
-
I liked you guys for a very long time. It was quite obvious you were having irreconcilable problems recently and I'm glad you finally put it to rest.
-
[quote name='Krunk the Great' timestamp='1319901262' post='2834450']
Im not the accuser, I don't have to do a thing
If you can't point to a post I guess it doesn't exist. (Because if it did, you could)
[/quote]
It's not his fault you don't read the OWF. He admitted it in 2 different threads of the 5-6 massive threads on this conflict already.
Anyway, bout time this happened. Terms for the other 2 should follow shortly. -
I love you Sal.
We need to get the gang back together and not all roll over and die to inactivity
-
Good to see some people man up to mistakes, even (and especially) when the alliance in question is smaller than they are. Might be some hope for you yet.
Also, I thought it was well known that delta has completely run RIA for years now
-
Take your pick:
1) What is this I don't even...
2) Wat?
3) I don't feel raptured.
4) Go away.
(seriously....what?) -
Dammit Zog, don't quit again
-
[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1318966908' post='2828068']
Maybe it's because these wars are happening for...*gasp*...perfectly valid reasons?
Such a strange new world we live in.
[/quote]
The definition of "valid" seems to be in constant flux with those who stand to gain from the war insisting their validity by any means, and those who oppose doing the opposite. It just seems like there are fewer and fewer who actually oppose for two primary reasons that I can divine:
1) The treaty web is clustered such that most people are at most 2-3 treaties away from each other, thus they don't want to badmouth an ally or ally of ally. In the past it tended to be into two separate camps, but that divide no longer seems to exist.
2) There seems to be quite a fear (and legitimate one I'm afraid) of becoming the next curbstomp target thanks in large part to #1. If you're not in the center of the cluster, you're out on the fringe periphery and have no chance thanks to most of your allies being forced to stay neutral while people with allies closer to the center can call in as many as they want without worrying about conflicts.
Don't ask me to pinpoint the center, because I haven't spent enough time researching the web, but I did look it over back when Legion was declared on and that statement seemed accurate. I prefer this to a single bloc dominating (read: Continuum), but it's honestly not much better. It does make anyone tied to any significant alliance unable to speak plainly or call a spade a spade which is why, in large part, I'm staying out of alliances for the moment. -
[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1318961679' post='2828015']
Do you realize how little content you add to the community? Saying whether something is or isn't "interesting?" That adjective in and of itself does nothing to compel to someone your thoughts or feelings on a subject. It's a passive remark that does nothing more but to say "hey, I said something about this subject, look at me."
[/quote]
You're probably correct, I should have just canceled the post.
I had a long drawn out thing written, but then I realized that I lacked the will to properly research it fully given my apathy/disdain for the alliances involved.
The main idea was mainly that it seems lately like there have been several stomps for dubious reasons without the requisite amount of outrage that normally accompanies such events. It brings up poor memories about the state of the world and the treaty web to see things like this. -
[quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1318963982' post='2828041']
I understand and largely agree. I personally am very picky on who I sign with and I think every alliance should do the same.
[/quote]
If everyone were like that, this world would be a much better place. -
A terrible alliance versus one I couldn't care less about.
*sigh* Nothing interesting to be said about anything these days. -
[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1318952864' post='2827947']
Why impressive? It's just a nation that joined.
[/quote]
Don't try to tell me you wouldn't be happy with .22 growth in wartime
-
You know, I don't like this treaty, but not particularly because of the alliances involved.
I'll just leave it at that.
Poor show.
-
[quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1318950337' post='2827925']
If only you were capable of understanding how much Polaris suffered to support your former alliance. We gave up so much to try and protect UINE while its leadership seemed determined to bring about disaster (which of course includes you). Of all people you have amongst the least right to criticize how we handle our allies, for if your allegations were actually true UINE would have been abandoned by Polaris and crushed years ago, not peacefully merged into TIO after years of relative peace.
So you either don't know what you are talking about or are trying too hard.
[/quote]
You know it was funny, I was expecting the nobody criticism, but this is so much more juicy.
It's also the only interesting thing that's happened in the last ~10 pages of this thread. How 'bout we let this one die instead of talking past each other in circles (yes...that makes sense). -
'bout damn time Valhalla got a leader who's at least reasonable.
Congratulations guys.
A Mushroom Kingdom - Non Grata Announcment
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
Yep, saw this one coming. That tears the last bit of respect I had for MK down and I'm afraid not even old times can salvage it anymore.
Au revoir.