[Oculus Third Decree]

I wonder what Caustic the Great will say about that.

 

He made a lot of insulting comments in the other thread. And guess who is laughing now?

[monsters incorporated]

First of all, we haven't declared war on anyone yet.

 

Declaration of war would require unanimous decision by the SPATR Leadership.

 

Right now we are only sending foreign aid to Monsters Inc.

[A Kaskus Clarification]

I would like to add that the Untouchable Nexus treaty between Limitless Nexus and Badlands is still active. (Although it is only binding for Badlands, not for SPATR - in accordance with the SPATR-Badlands Merger Treaty).

[Late DoW (on purpose)]

This is a bold move and I like it. It shows that SPATR Leadership was not mistaken when unanimously approving the PIAT with Monsters Inc.

 

Good luck Monsters! And happy hunting!

 

By the way...

 

I fully support this. Alliances like Valhalla, OBR, TOP, Polar, GATO, DBDC etc should heed this example. It is just a matter of time before you're next and you are better off with friends enemies of your enemies than without.

That said, you will not be alone. Best of luck.

 

OBR? GATO? Valhalla? You are joking, right?

 

And DBDC is cooperating closely with DT and NG, who are both members of Oculus. Where will this lead remains yet to be seen...

[2D Treaty Web, powered by RI5]

Here is the list of the current treaties of Swash Plates And Tail Rotors:

 

MDoAP with Kaskus

ODoAP with NEW

ODoAP with Stripes

PIAT with Monsters Inc

Protectorate with Badlands

 

Additionally there is also one more treaty with Kaskus, but it is superseded by MDoAP anyway. We are also members of economic pink team treaty (PECS).

[Argent - LPH war stats thread]

SPATR issued a verdict stating that Rey the Great is the enemy of SPATR. After I noticed that Rey the Great has emerged from peace mode, I asked our ally Kaskus for assistance, which they provided. I would like to thank Kaskus for their help with this matter.

 

Of course, it's up to Kaskus how they prosecute this currently ongoing war with Rey the Great. SPATR may or may not send others after Rey the Great depending on whether we deem this to be necessary for the proper execution of the verdict.

[Bounty on Rey Rey]

Rey the Great is still the enemy of Swash Plates And Tail Rotors. I would like to thank our allies Kaskus for providing assistance.

[ODN Election Results]

But in a representative democracy, checks and balances are desirable to avoid concentration of power.

 

So you don't want one person to have too much power. In SPATR this is solved much more easily without all this complications. (We are not democratic alliance, but the same method can be applied in democratic alliances).

 

 

It is not a question of incompetence or stupidity, although such a system does provide a hedge against those vices - and we have seen the damage they can do in the politics of Bob - but of ensuring that the General Assembly's will can be effectively channeled through representative institutions and executed on their behalf.

 

And who determines what constitutes "General Assembly's will"?

 

 

I guess we mean what we say we mean, not what you say we mean.

 

I based my guess on what Alexio15 said:

 

So some random nut job can't get into power and run the alliance into the ground. That's why alliances have check and balance. Mine is the chancellor's in my alliance. ODN have the senators.

 

I think he was quite clear that "checks and balances" exist to protect from stupidy of elected officials. And it makes sense to me - if officials are elected by popular vote, chances are that they will be incomptent or stupid. So you need these checks and balances to somewhat mitigate that.

[Sengoku, have some honor.]

 

Except, sengoku didn't do anything stupid? If they did launch attacks it would be to goad a vulnerable potential opponent into doing something foolish

 

I guess that by "something foolish" you mean defending their alliance?

[Deadweight]

OBR/RotR means hitting Themis, that's not happening, rolling Pax a second time could happen, SPATR wouldnt be a raid, that would have to be an extermination. FAN is FAN and has been raided by DBDC previously so I'm guessing they're on the blacklist for a little while longer, 3% just got raided(by bones), TIO means upsetting R&R and NATO, which would lead to serious complications for DK at the very least. the circlejerk that sprang from last war has removed just about all the targets you listed, besides Pax and you.

 

You made a specifc point about number of nations in top 250 which fit certain conditions - and that's what I disputed. Whether war between DBDC and any of the alliances which I listed is likely or not is a different matter.

[Deadweight]

Which is why DBDC is stuck currently, since all of their allies are also allied, there's realistically less than a dozen nations in the top 250 not in DBDC allies(or one chain away), or GPA.

 

There is much more then dozen such nations. The alliances which have nations in top 250 and that are not GPA, DBDC or DBDC allies or one treaty chain away are: SPATR, OBR, RoTR, Pax Corvus, Old Guard, FAN, TIO, MI6, III Percent.

[Sengoku, have some honor.]

Based off the math Cuba should be over 60 billion, if not more.

edit: this is assuming he didnt like buy and resell a bunch of land or something, but I kinda doubt that'd happen.

 

I don't think you are correct in regards to Cuba warchest. I would rather trust my sources. However, could you provide this math (input data and the formulas)?

 

Back on topic though: since this thread is about spying against MI6, it would make sense to perhpas show the actual spy reports?

[Sengoku, have some honor.]

If the powers that be wish to hold onto their infra and technology numbers merely to be the last ones on the planet, then so be it. If I were in leadership I'd be planning for a more enjoyable conflict to spend the 10-100+ billion some people have saved up rather than sit around until the lights go out.

 

100 billion? Nobody is even close to that. Not even the WTF nations who saved for years.

[ODN Election Results]

All democracies have them.

 

 

The Ombudsman is for oversight. The role has no bearing on the right of exit, which naturally exists.

 

What you seem to be struggling with, murtibing, is that if an alliance is to be governed by the will of its members, rather than by a paramount leader or an oligarchy, then it needs a clear system or rules setting out how that will is to be discerned and translated into decisions. A democratic alliance will have different governing structures than an imperial one, an oligarchic one, an anarchic one and so on.

 

The separation of powers and ombudsman are not necessary traits of democratic alliance. But I guess you both mean that in democratic alliance they are needed because members may elect someone who is incompetent or outright stupid. So you have all this "separation of powers", "checks and balances" and so on to somewhat mitigate adverse effects of electing people to office by the means of popular vote.

[ODN Election Results]

So some random nut job can't get into power and run the alliance into the ground. That's why alliances have check and balance.

 

In SPATR we simply don't allow stupid persons into Leadership. So we don't need "check and balance".

 

 

Alexio has given you a partial answer to the issue of checks and balances, although our system includes more layers than that, with a judicial branch as well as the legislative and executive.

 

To what end?

 

 

We also have an ombudsman with unfettered access to all areas to be the eyes and ears of the General Assembly, whose servants we all are.

 

Ombudsman? To what end? If member doesn't like something, they can leave.

[ODN Election Results]

If you want a serious answer, you can consult our Charter, and learn which positions are elected by popular vote and which are appointed by elected officials, subject to approval by a different branch of government. We have checks and balances like you wouldn't believe.

If you want the flippant answer, come to the Senator with flippers.

 

First of all, I haven't asked "Senator". I have asked the one who announced the election results ("Secretary-General").

 

Anyway, I'm not interested in specifics - who is elected and who not and why - I only asked whether the voting mentioned in the announcement was popular or not. From your answer I infer it was a popular vote. (Although I forgot to ask wheter it was equal too). From your reply I know that some officials are elected by popular vote, while others are appointed by those elected. The rest is footnotes.

 

One more question though: why does ODN have "checks and balances" (and separation of powers)?

[Ramblings from the Imperial Rocking Chair]

Alliances know that Pacifica and Umbrella are looking good so work hard to stay in good with them hoping that when it comes time to dump and burn some, it won't be them.

 

I don't know which alliances are doing so - but SPATR definitely isn't one of them.

[We're watching you]

The group dosen't need ideology to be successful.

 

As far as the "CubaQuerida-clause" is concerned I guess that the purpose thereof is the treaty manoeuvring during war.

[ODN Election Results]

 

Only in some quarters.

 

Then it means it wasn't a popular vote.

[ODN Election Results]

Our members have voted, and we are pleased to present our new gov.

 

 

Was this a popular vote?

[Peace, Intelligence and Aid Treaty between Monsters Inc and Swash Plates And Tail Rotors]

We in SPATR are not concerned with the so called "sides". We will defend ourselves and our allies in case of an attack. We may also incite war ourselves or join a war incited by our allies.

[Peace, Intelligence and Aid Treaty between Monsters Inc and Swash Plates And Tail Rotors]

Peace, Intelligence and Aid Treaty between Monsters Inc and Swash Plates And Tail Rotors

 

Alliance Monsters Inc and Alliance Swash Plates And Tail Rotors (henceforth referred to as the Parties) agree to enter into the following treaty:

Article I.

The Parties shall refrain from perpetrating any act of war against each other.

Article II.

If such situation arises that one of the Parties obtains any information that is related to the security of the other Party, that Party shall communicate such information to the other Party.

Article III.

The Parties may provide financial and technological assistance to each other. Both Parties agree that the extent of such assistance will be affected by internal and international situation of the both Parties.

Article IV.

This treaty may be terminated by either Party by issuing the statement of such intent to the other Party. The cancellation period is 48 hours, starting from the moment when the other Party learned or was able to learn about such statement. Both Parties may agree to waive the cancellation period.

Signed for Swash Plates And Tail Rotors,

Untouchable - The Boss, Security Council Member
Sgt Gus - Main Rotor Blade, Security Council Member
Fasser - Berserker Brigade, Security Council Member
Zxcsd - Wing Man, Security Council Member
Murtibing - Grand Inquisiteur, Security Council Member
Lord von Manteuffel - Executive Officer
Nashorn - Legionnaire

Signed for Monsters Inc,

Lord Hitchcock - Mike Wazowski

 

[An announcement from Three Alliances]

I'd like to have an argument about whether this is a bloc or a three-way treaty, please.

 

There is no need to argue, as the Article IV clearly answers that question.

[An announcement from Three Alliances]

Optional Military Pact between Stripes, Kaskus and Swash Plates And Tail Rotors

Alliance Stripes, Alliance Kaskus and Alliance Swash Plates And Tail Rotors (referred to as the Parties) hereby enter into the following agreement:

Article I. Ad pacem.

The Parties agree to not perpetrate any acts of war against each other.

Article II. Ad securitatem.

If one of the Parties acquire information relating to the security of the one of other Parties, such information should be presented to that Party.

Article III. Ad bellum.

The Parties may provide assistance to each other in times of war. The Parties agree that such assistance is optional on both alliance and membership level.

Article IV. Ad finem.

This treaty can be cancelled by either Party by issuing the statement of such intent to the other Party or Parties. In such situation the treaty remains in force for the period of 48 hours, unless Parties, between whom the treaty is cancelled, agree to waive the cancellation period. If such situation arises that this treaty is cancelled or otherwise terminated, the cancellation or termination only affects reciprocal rights and obligations of the Parties beetween which it occured. All other rights and obligations incurred by the Parties on the grounds of this treaty remain in force.

Signed for Swash Plates And Tail Rotors,

Untouchable - The Boss, Security Council Member
Sgt Gus - Main Rotor Blade, Security Council Member
Fasser - Berserker Brigade, Security Council Member
Zxcsd - Wing Man, Security Council Member
Murtibing - Grand Inquisiteur, Security Council Member
Lord von Manteuffel - Executive Officer
Nashorn - Legionnaire, SPATR Ambassador to Stripes

Signed for Kaskus,

Blackorchid - President
GantanX - Vice president
Collegekid13 - Minister of foreign affairs

Signed for Stripes,

Xanth - The Murray
Smurthwaite - Commander of Nukabeers
Jrasion - the least creative person ever
Redarmy - Commander of Communist Affairs
Eviljak - TCA Spy
justtrentjohnson - Just Trent
gowfanatic - What did the pirate say when his peg leg got stuck in the freezer? Shiver me timbers!

 

[We're watching you]

I think you're looking at it wrong, the message from the clause is don't attack us.

If an ally was stupid enough to attack Oculus then that's the allies fault for attacking an ally of their ally, why would you cancel a treaty on the chance that you may go full retard if you decide to keep the treaty.

However I don't know WTF they have going on but that's just my thoughts, I think you're looking too far into this simple text which I think is a basic clause if you're starting a massive bloc of alliances with the type of intent they have in terms of politics.

 

Attacking your own ally is always bad - it is dishonourable.

 

Attacking ally of ally may be bad or not - it depends on the situation.

 

And I wouldn't call attacking ally of ally "full retard". It is something which happened many times. The most recent example is NSO (Non Grata ally) attacking CA (which is also Non Grata ally, as CA is their protectorate on paper).