Alex987

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1307590033' post='2727576'] I see you're new and you've fallen into the trap of reading Dochartaigh posts. I suggest clicking on "My Settings," "Profile," "Manage Ignored Users" and add him. [/quote] Lol, yes. I know I am not convincing him as has probably been said by many people before. The only people I care to convince are the ones not posting outrageous comments and just silently observing.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1307567520' post='2727263'] UINE's history is UINE's history. It is not R&R's history. It is not my history. Thus, it is up to neither of us to decide what is best for UINE. Trying to pass this travesty off as something good is just !@#$%^&*. R&R is just riding the high life while they can and have begun abusing other alliances along the way. This most certainly has colored many alliances' perception of R&R and not for the better. [/quote] Lol, are you serious? UINE history is UINE history and not R&R history? I'm sorry, but when you go to war because your allies haven't received small amounts of reps that should take 1 month in 6 months' time, YOUR history is MY history. Because now I need to go and get those reps. And you say to wait 4 more days? Are you serious? How many times has R&R gov contacted keve trying to get the aid? OF COURSE when war already started he's going to claim innocence! Do you really think after 6 months those 4 days were really that significant? Somehow when they've been lying for the past 6 months they're going to tell the truth for the last 4 days? No, that is wrong. Riding the high life and begun abusing other alliances? Where do we profit in that treaty? Tell me in 1 area where R&R directly profits from that deal, I'm waiting. You know where we profit, from ending the stupid wars that cause so much more headache than they're worth. This war was more headache than it should be worth, because we are fought every step along the way over something so petty as paying $36 million in reps for raiding AiD!

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1307562608' post='2727202'] We all think Keve was an idiot, and we all think your war was totally justified. What we think is ridiculous is R&R imposing charter changes, raid rules, limits on gov, etc. The distinction between the two is simple enough to understand. [/quote] I did not hear the discussion of the terms so I didn't know this even until NoFish posted the quote but those terms are all what UINE wanted. They were given what they asked, and all of the terms were still ensuring they do what they promised. They promised to keep keve out temporarily, pay the reps, and not start any more conflicts. That's ALL the agreement does. The only way R&R benefits from that treaty is ensuring peace so we do not need to spend money for no reps anymore. Edit: Keep in mind that the raiding of an AA is what put them at odds with AiD in the first place, which started the whole $36 mil reps situation.

[quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1307561656' post='2727185'] It's not your place to make sure UINE stays out of situations like this. If they want to see reforms, they can do that on their on terms without having them shoved down their throat during a war. [b]UINE didn't pay so you punished them, take your reps[/b] and leave you have no right to dictate their inner workings indefinitely or even at all. The fact that you think this is acceptable is astounding and speaks volumes. [/quote] These are not our reps, they are AiD's for the techraiding of 5 of their members. @ Dochartaigh: Lol, I love this switching of opinions. When R&R declared war everybody was like "Hmm, yeah keve is getting what he deserves, nobody likes keve". Now that the war is over and something's being done, we're the only ones that want keve out? No, like was said again and again, all of these promised reforms were what allured us to peace, we want to avoid future conflicts with UINE. Their history has shown that reforms need to be ensured, not just promised, and that they have had problems with many alliances repeatedly. We are ensuring that we do not need to fight any more costly wars for allies again (keep in mind this was for allies since R&R received 0 reps) Edit: And also what NoFish quoted above...

Like I said, everything in this treaty the UINE government has promised to carry through with anyway. We are making sure that they are carried through. And Term 5 is not intended to be a never-ending clause that limits Term 1. UINE claimed innocence and guilt at the same time by saying that they allowed keve rule like a dictator, and that they would change it to ensure that war wouldn't happen again. We wrote it in treaty form. Like MajorLu (the current UINE leader) says on the UINE announcement, she tried to issue democratic reforms before, but they were avoided. Being that MajorLu is the appointed leader by UINE (NOT R&R), those reforms would be made anyway. UNLESS they were just empty promises to finish the conflict quickly. This is most likely not the case, but like I said before, UINE's history has required these measures to be spelled out letter by letter.

I understand all of the controversy over the dictation of the terms, but they are not ridiculous. I will go through the terms one by one why they are not ridiculous. 1: Current gov says that keve is the root of all evil. Fair game, keve cannot be in gov for ONE ROUND. All that does is allow the current gov clean up UINE like they say they will, keve can return when he cleans up his. 2: No explanation needed, pay the rest of reps 3: Similar here, ban on techraiding for allied nations (which caused the whole AiD reps situation to start), even though they can still techraid unallied nations 4: UINE claims that this war was a result of keve not letting information escape to the rest of the alliance? Whatever, we can sympathize with that too, although it's not the most robust argument. I understand that there are good people under an oppressive government. Now there are elections. No more claiming innocence from not being involved or knowing what is going on. 5: Redundant point in my opinion. An attack on R&R or our allies can warrant war anyway, this is just making sure the result of further aggression is obvious. Not a SINGLE one of these terms is pointed at taking away from UINE's position maliciously to benefit R&R. We asked for no reps. The terms install a government of people that were ALREADY in the alliance (unlike the comments that we should install an R&R viceroy) and were running the alliance during keve's absence. The only thing that this treaty does is reiterate the obvious course of action. All of these terms were already promised by UINE when the war ended. The government was already going to remove keve, pay reps, not tech raid alliances, have some GA involvement to prevent dictatorship (not even explicitly stated, just vaguely stating "by direct GA involvement", not "by elections every month"), and not have further wars against R&R. These were already promised by UINE. The ONLY thing this treaty does is make sure that UINE follows through on their promises, because frankly they are less than trustworthy given their history. I hope that can change with better leadership like has been promised...

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1307381117' post='2725472'] Well "interessante" is just "interesting" in portuguese. [/quote] Actually, in italiano... o/ R&R, onward!

o/ Dos Equis! We are the only bloc that bowls overhand! xD

Good luck you guys, you were good allies in the war. o7 CMEA

Let's start now, message everybody when you find the last person (or when anybody else recruiting the last member finds one)

Resources: Aluminum, Cattle Nation Link: [url="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=437926"]My link[/url] Preferred Color: Orange, Aqua, Maroon (no preference between the 3)

Ruler: Alex987 Nation: TriState Empire Nation Link: [url="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=437926"]My link[/url] Resources: Aluminum, Cattle Team: Orange (can change to Aqua or Maroon) Looking for a 5-person Long-Term trade circle.

Time to go to war! [img]http://i.imgur.com/u7Ei4.png[/img]