Beefspari
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Posts posted by Beefspari
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[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1330479629' post='2930306']
Didn't expect a lop-sided contest, more just a Ninja vs GOONS thing then a Ninja vs GOONS, MK, Umbrella deal.[/quote]
If you [i][b]really[/b][/i] expected that, you haven't been paying attention.
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[quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1330477307' post='2930271']
Not at all; I'm saying you have no right to the cockiness and chest-puffing which your members have exhibited in this thread. You only get away with these things because the lulz-lovers at MK take joy in the spectacle, not out of any respect your alliance has earned for itself on Bob[/quote]
Why is it alliances with poor political ties are always ragging on people who have strong political ties? Why are people like you incapable of understanding that having strong, trusted allies is something we're proud of? It's something we worked for, and it improves us as an alliance. Does having allies like MK and Umbrella cause us to lose our identity? No. It just means we have friends that back us. A good alliance needs a strong internal [i][b]and[/b][/i] external. We have a strong external through DH and PB. Our treaties strengthen us as an alliance. Having powerful allies makes us powerful.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisfffL4.jpg[/img]
Saying we'd be nothing without our allies is a non sequitur. [i][b]Of course[/b][/i] we'd be weaker without our allies ([i][b]everyone[/b][/i] would), but the point is we don't have to worry about that because we [i][b]do[/b][/i] have allies. Being in a strong position politically, whether entirely through internal, entirely through external, or a combination of the two, affords an alliance certain perks. We have [i][b]every[/b][/i] right to be proud of our current political place, because we worked our way to that point. Your what-if scenarios mean nothing. Maybe we wouldn't be cocky, chest-puffers in a hypothetical world where we don't have allies. But we do. So this tangent is meaningless.
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[quote name='MrMuz' timestamp='1330447295' post='2930037']
Then don't buy tech from them. The policy is meant to discourage unsolicited tech purchase, understandable when tech is such a valuable resource.[/quote]
Yeah that's kind of the point. Anyone who does see this thread is saying "Wow, that's a terrible policy. I'm not into donating money, so I'm going to stay away." That works fine and good until someone who [i][b]hasn't[/b][/i] seen this thread gets their money stolen. Then someone's going to be pissed. And this will escalate. It's an oil drum waiting for the first spark to set it off.
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[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1330444507' post='2930027']
Congrats not requesting outside aid while being on the dogpile side of the last war. o/
[/quote]
So your goals for us to be a tolerable alliance are to not ever get aid, not have or utilize allies, and mostly just be in losing wars. Some alliances are all over that, but I'm afraid it's not our style.
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[quote name='r00tn00b' timestamp='1330443535' post='2930024']
close. missed it by thaaaat much. it has to be deliberate war aids. in this case 3m/50t/2000s from more than one person in the same alliance and this had no ill effect on the raided nation. the issue we had was with another alliance interfering with our nations war. if they had waited till the war ran its course or contacted us for letting the nation go (which would have been a simple task on the mercy board for taking income away from our members) this would not have escalated at all.
[/quote]
Really, it's more just questionable aid. A tech deal is an easy excuse so we might not always handwaive it. A couple times we've questioned the authenticity of aid and just asked for equal compensation. IE, just 3m. In this case it was more since it was tech and soldiers.
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[quote name='r00tn00b' timestamp='1330442337' post='2930018']
to be fair they only have 57 avalible slots since 3 ran to pm before the dows happened. and I have confidence the rest will.be filled. missing a few on day one isn't a crime.
[/quote]
To clarify, we're currently at 89% slot usage with 51 slots out of 57 filled. Not everyone was on last night so it's understandable not all the slots got filled then.
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[quote name='7BitBrian' timestamp='1330146459' post='2927915']
And speaking of War. Every single Alliance promised me safety from war. Not a single one promised me I'd get into it. This is a game about War and Politics right? Why would I be pixel hording? I like PvP. I don't want you to protect me from war, I want you to have my back as we ride into battle, together. Don't promise me safety, promise me we'll play this game right and get into some !@#$ together. Come at me bro.[/quote]
I came here thinking this would be whiny but this paragraph is actually pretty good. I don't get to use this line very often these days: you should join GOONs. We're fighting a war right now. Which evolved from people aiding a nation being raided. Raiding being something we do all the time. I've personally fought 70 individual wars, and dropped over 80 nukes (sometimes just because I felt like it). I 0 NSed a guy last week. Anyway, I'm not going to try and do a sales pitch. If you're interested go look at our forum. Some of the stuff is public, like the mercy board. Should be enough to get an idea.
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If it means anything, I have no actual dislike for STA as an alliance and we don't have any interest or reason to fight them. Sure, I think Tyga talks too much and the things he says are sometimes baffling, but a lot of individuals are like that (even amongst allies). If anything I think STA has improved recently after their last treaty cancellation.
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[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1330415357' post='2929867']
Doesn't look like an emotional break down to me in the slightest, as much as you wish that to be the case, clearly this post is well formatted and made in a rational manner, or you could stop being mardy and trying to paint people like that when they make valid points against you, but i expect nothing less tbh especially from the likes of you.
"OHHHH NOESSS hes proving me to be an idiot, must character assassinate with crap about his emotional state!!!!!!!!" shut the hell up.
Que the usual idiots claiming I'm a schattenman clone or fan or something along they lines.
[/quote]
Sorry if I misrepresented myself: I didn't read what he said. All Schat posts say exactly the same thing. The only part I pay attention to is how long they are, so I know for how long to laugh. I have a formula that converts words typed to seconds laughed. Anyway, it's impossible to make me look like an idiot in this instance (other cases, it can sometimes be pretty easy). This debate revolves around the idea that it's okay to aid warring nations sometimes, but not all the time. GOONs does not hold that stance. That's pretty much the end of the debate. The fact that it spawned its own Schat thread with him trying to argue that different types of wars should be handled differently in regards to aiding warring nations is just hilarious. He could type 150,000 words (and probably enjoy it), and it would still be a laughable stance.
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[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1330417369' post='2929888']
Although if you're going to have your tech raid policy effect others like this, it does make it people who aren't in your alliance's business what your tech raid policy is and whether you follow your own rules.
[/quote]
Newsflash, [i][b]all[/b][/i] tech raid policies affect other people. You can't raid unpiloted nations. Basically all of the complaints here boil down to this: "Raids aren't wars, and while you can't aid people at war, you can aid people being raided." That's fine if that's your policy, but it's not ours. Never has been, never going to be. The same as the people who try lawyering their way out of our policy about getting reps from alliances that attack us aggressively. Your slanted world-view of semantics and technicalities does not influence our policy.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL3.jpg[/img]
CBs are usually debated pretty hotly for any war. When I was young and naive I thought that there was such a thing as a "pure CB." Something that was so cut and dry that nobody would argue it. Very direct things like declaring a war (roguery), alliance spying, or blatantly aiding fighting nations. But no, I've lived through people justifying each and every one of those actions based on increasingly questionable criteria. In this case, "Aiding warring nations is all right because it's a different [i][b]kind[/b][/i] of war. This time." The most baffling thing is how [i][b]we're[/b][/i] being called inconsistent, when we aren't the ones saying it's okay to aid warring nations sometimes, but not all the time. Well, enjoy that stance, but it's not going to change anything.
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I just came to giggle at the latest Schat thread. I guess we had been losing our touch, since it had been a while since Schat had an emotional breakdown on our account. So it's good to see him revived. I'm also genuinely curious what percent of Schat's threads are about GOONs. Also, number of words: 1511. The extremely harsh terms we imposed on MONGOLS was a 1000 word essay. Just saying. Okay, toodles!
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[quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1330410535' post='2929818']
You read Schatt's topic and still think you're right? Just how bliss is this ignorance that you folks wallow in?
[/quote]
This really resulted in another Schat thread? This is the best Christmas ever.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisyayL5.jpg[/img]
In all seriousness, I feel exactly the same way. When this topic originally came up and we were looking at the fact that we were going to war, I was sitting there looking at the facts. I said to myself "Self, we're in a situation where people blatantly sent a nation at war 3m/50t/2000s packages and then refused to negotiate compensation. We're going to go to war with this incredibly damning evidence. And you know what? People are still going to say we're wrong. I can't wait to see their arguments."
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It's really quite insane the lengths people go to just to oppose our stance. I quite often wonder to what extremes we could be faced with and still be in the wrong. In fact, I already know the answer. Because we've been DoWed on by alliances in the past who [i][b]literally[/b][/i] have no reason to attack us, and people still supported it. It's hard to take any comments like "you still think you're right?" seriously when I already know that even when we're really, [i][b]really[/b][/i] right, we're still wrong.
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[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330400589' post='2929703']
So, just to clarify. GOONS will attack anyone who provides any assistance, be it financial or military, to the target of a raid but will not assist a GOONS raider at all? I just want this policy to be clear.
[/quote]
Yes. With the stipulation you understand our policy doesn't [i][b]guarantee[/b][/i] assistance but [i][b]allows for it[/b][/i]. And we're talking "Help my raid is going bad" / "Sucks for you" and not "My target just got 15m/250t/10000s from CoJ"
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[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330397907' post='2929678']
Precisely.
[/quote]
We've always been consistent on this issue. Deciding that raids aren't wars and have different rules would be the opposite of that. We've also consistently not let people aid people we're at war with. If anything this war is pure consistency.
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[quote name='death from above 82' timestamp='1330397431' post='2929673']
This is not true- 3 nation did send aid- 1 was excepted and the other 2 were canceled- after GOons intered negotiations- couldn't agree on amount. next we went to your mercy board. Still no conclusion- the whole time getting taunts from your quick witted bullying mouths. Really was there any other option
[/quote]
Welcome to the mercy board. We taunt everyone there. And the resolution was entirely in your control. You guys had a money option out and were also given a timeframe. You not only rejected the offer but let the timeframe expire. It's not our fault you decided not to compensate us. You also went to the mercy board and performed poorly. I'm sorry that two options weren't enough for you. But it's also not our responsibility to make fixing your mistakes easy on you.
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[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330397038' post='2929663']
The facts are that you didn't like a raid target getting a leg-up so you decided to declare on those helping them out. It is all about the raid and all about ensuring your future raids remain one-sided beatdowns for your members.[/quote]
No, it's all about not sending the message that it's all right to aid people we're at war with. That has always been our stance and it's not about to change because you believe raids are different than wars and should be held to different standards.
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[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330396745' post='2929658']
As far as I'm aware GOONS as an alliance had not declared war on the raided nation so I don't see how you claim that MONGOLS committed an act of war against you by aiding the raided nation.[/quote]
Three goons hit one nation. Three MONGOLS aided that nation. MONGOLS gov condoned the action and had no intention of resolving the issue. This is not a 1 vs 1 scenario. This is the policies of GOONs vs the policies of MONGOLS. Is this really so hard to understand?
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeriso_oL8.jpg[/img]
[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330396855' post='2929659']
A raid is a war when it suits you for it to be so.
[/quote]
Historically, when has GOONs made a distinction between a raid and a war? As I said we usually raid in packs. And if one of our people messes up and raids someone inappropriately, people come to GOONs gov. Because it's an alliance issue. And always has been. Everything you're saying you're pulling from literally nowhere.
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[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330396387' post='2929652']
I'd be cool with it. As I said, STA members raid at their own risk. I can't make it any clearer than that.
[/quote]
We don't share the same views on raid vs war as you and that's all there is to it. A raid is a war, and is held to the same standards as any war. Which includes third parties not getting involved.
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[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1330390751' post='2929582']
Not "GOONS couldn't handle the heat of one nation." The [i]attacker [/i]apparently couldn't handle the heat of one nation. As if MONGOLS poses any threat to your alliance as a whole. You'll probably end up with spoils and reps that outweigh any damage, and have a nice large-scale raid out of it.
[/quote]
There were three raiders. But anyway, it's not about if MONGOLS poses a threat. Do you think we believed NPL posed a threat when they were recruiting our raid targets? It's about policy and principle. It's about not letting people step on our alliance. And there's no way we're going to send the message that you can aid people we're at war with and get away with it.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L3.jpg[/img]
[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330391588' post='2929597']
If you took my comments as "raiding is wrong, so there!" then I seriously call into question your comprehension skills.
[/quote]
Obviously on some level you at least begrudgingly accept raids. The disconnect seems to be that you don't consider a raid a war. For that reason you believe it's okay for people to aid people you're raiding and do nothing about it. That's fine if that's your policy, but we happily disagree. I'm curious if this extends to all wars or just raids. And what, exactly, separates the two.
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[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330395371' post='2929640']
GOONS is "defending" its members who raided because the raid went bad (i.e. the raided party received financial and military aid to help it fight back against the GOONS raiders). They are bailing out the nations that raided by attempting to cut off assistance to the raided nation. If this is not assisting a nation that raided then I'm not sure what would consitute assistance to a raider.[/quote]
This has nothing to do with the raided nation. Or the raiders. This isn't a war about a raid, it's a war about aiding people. If this was about "bailing out" the nations having problems, we could've just filled all their slots with 3m/2000s. But it's not about that, and saying it is is completely ludicrous. You really think we DoWed on a 22-nation alliance just because a raid wasn't going well? Or that we'd rather attack an alliance than just, I don't know, send aid? We did this to cut off aid flow? Really? [i][b]Really?[/b][/i]
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisfffX3.jpg[/img]
[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1330395945' post='2929646']
You say you don't allow "war-aid" to those "we" are at war with. Does that mean that every GOONS raid is considered to be an alliance-wide war against the target?
[/quote]
Yes, because we usually raid in packs anyway, and anyone we raid is solo or in a small AA. And if we're raiding one we'll probably raid them all. I fail to see where the line between raid and war is. Unless you're suggesting we just go around raiding 25+ nation AAs for fun. Because I can assure you if we did, they'd consider it an alliance war. Are you saying you think it'd be okay for us to raid anyone we wanted if we just don't call it an alliance war?
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[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1330382597' post='2929498']
you wish you know but even i donot know
goons has lose 220k ns before even nuke have attacked
enjoy your aroused while you still have an allience for using it
[/quote]
Doomhouse is probably the only group of people around that make more fakeposts than legitimate detractor posts, leading me to be confused as to who exactly is saying stupid things as a joke and who is saying stupid things seriously.
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[quote name='lord bitburg' timestamp='1330380154' post='2929467']
Only a matter of time till the curb stompers, call in allies.
[/quote]
I just made a blog about this. It's great how things work out sometimes.
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[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1330376364' post='2929434']
I think GOONS owes MONGOLS an apology. While they certainly are guilty of aiding GOONS' tech raid targets, the amount of money, land, and tech stolen in this raid will be much more than what GOONS would have gotten otherwise. Anyone who doubts the charity and compassion of MONGOLS should be ashamed of themselves.
[/quote]
If they stole some stuff, aiding the defending nation is totally okay! That's not really how reps work, so have fun trying to enforce that as the new global policy on how to deal with people aiding nations at war.
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[quote name='death from above 82' timestamp='1330364800' post='2929332']
you first tech raid started on the 16th- beefspari had a post earlier stating the aid was sent on the 18th- that post is in the forum of our treaty with kaskus. i will try to copy and post here.
[/quote]
This nation sent 3m/50t/2000s: http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=301708
This nation sent 3m/2000s: http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=419699 (now deleted or cancelled)
At least two other nations also sent 3m/2000s, but were most likely cancelled. One of our members, Bad Horse, had been tracking this since the 18th. It's detailed more on our forums as we've been discussing it since the 18th.
Our first contact was in regards to multiple aid offers being sent to the same nation by MONGOLS:
Message: Hello sir, I am a Nigerian prince of the Goon Order of Negligence and some other stuff. It has come to my attention that [b]several members of your alliance[/b] have been sending aid to Lord von Manteuffe, who is currently at war with GOONS nations.
The response from MONGOLS:
Message: he was already tech dealing with mongols on 2/14 as you will see, he is new and a friend in Rl of [b]some of our members, you guys are gang <removed> him and they sent aid[/b].
It's possible some of that aid was cancelled. I wasn't keeping close enough tabs on it to know how many went through, which ones were cancelled, and which ones were deleted. And I didn't think to take screenshots on the off chance aid gets deleted. It doesn't really matter though as he was sent tech [b]and soldiers[/b] by MONGOLS who refused any compensation for their actions. Even in the context of a single aid package, he was still sent military aid during combat. When confronted about it, MONGOLS told us to push on. This end result is cut and dry.
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[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1330365634' post='2929337']
Declaring on people isn't part of Schatt's modus operandi. He puts together hilarious coalitions of giant idiots who spectacularly fail at instigating wars by covert means instead.
[/quote]
You forget the part where they pay us reps and then never shut up about it.
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MONGOLS DOW
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1330477134' post='2930268']
Mercy board posting is a waste of time, but good luck and enjoy the war Mongols.
[/quote]
Plenty of people have had wonderful mercy board success stories. It does require a certain amount of competency though.
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