Beefspari
-
Posts
1,564 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Gallery
Posts posted by Beefspari
-
-
Nation Strength: 8,499.785
Welp. We're screwed.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeriscryL2.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Lord Caparo' timestamp='1332428170' post='2941601']
Complaining? man they arent complaining, they are just trying to show that we are useless at everything we do just because we throw aid to each other instead of getting other nations to do stuff for us.
[/quote]
I'm not sure I follow this logic of "not getting other nations to do stuff for us" when Kaskus declared in defense of your alliance, they're giving you a lot of aid, and some nations from NEW joined in to assist. Do you really have room to complain about the couple extra nations on our AA covering ranges we don't have nations for?
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L10.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1332425142' post='2941577']
Having a backbone is priceless.
[/quote]
If my two years on this planet have taught me anything, it's that "brave" and "honorable" are synonyms for "going to lose." The only alliances ever attributed with these characteristics are ones that just get destroyed and pay reps. They make foolish decisions like tackling large alliances they can't handle and ultimately fade away into obscurity -- all while people applaud them for their principles. Dozens of alliances and individuals we've destroyed and collected money from in the past have been described as brave or having backbones. But they're where they are, and we're where we are. If that's what it takes to get praise from people like you, you can keep it. Sometimes martyrdom isn't bravery. Sometimes it's just stupidity.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris9_9L3.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1332425393' post='2941582']
I swear hiro was once a member of GOONs?
[/quote]
[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1332425739' post='2941584']
He was, I forget if he was kicked out or he left or what. He posted a bunch of warchests on his way out or some sort of silly public stunt like that.
[/quote]
He was, and then at one point he somehow got the idea that we'd be fighting alongside Tetris in a war. So he ragequit the alliance. Even though we never fought in the war at all, much less alongside Tetris (who we aren't even allied with). On his way out he copypasted a single thread's worth of warchests. Not only were they unlabeled (so even if you saw a bad one you wouldn't know who it belonged to), but a lot of them were actually pretty good warchests. Then we got cash money to take him off the EoG list. Now he just lingers and takes weak jabs at GOONs while spelling words wrong.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL7.jpg[/img] -
EDIT: whoops, double posted
-
[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1332406259' post='2941520']
We will see what your scumbag alliance does when it loses it's first war, not pay reps and skulk off like last time I'm betting.
[/quote]
Your predictions of the future are so spot-on, I have no choice but to believe you. Maybe we'll merge into Tetris once we're defeated.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeriswutL1.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Courland' timestamp='1332388156' post='2941449']
You can continue trying to get blood from a stone, but all you will do is make a desert and call it peace.
[/quote]
I think I proved there's plenty of blood in the stone. The stone is merely stubborn.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL6.jpg[/img]
[quote name='Courland' timestamp='1332391649' post='2941476']
I'm sure you have. However, you're dealing with a bunch of half retarded lunatics. We are much more likely to [s]delete[/s] commit mass suicide when we are no longer able to prosecute this war than pay anything.
[/quote]
I really, really hope this is your official plan. For a lot of reasons, including:
1) I would be really eager to see all the inevitable supportive posts of anti-GOONs who would be applauding your use of such a tactic, when literally the same people so often mention that the old GOONS did a mass-delete and use it as insult-fodder against us (even though most of us weren't in the old GOONS and the jab has never been in any way applicable). Besides which, they had very big (OOC) reasons to do such a thing and you guys don't. Buuuut, if I had a nickel for every time a detractor was a hypocrite, I wouldn't need aid slots.
2) Almost everyone we fight at some point says this, and then they don't do it. I think they just do it as a hollow threat which is supposed to make us reconsider? Notably UOKMB all vowed that they'd fight us until they had nothing left. Instead they fought us for a few weeks and then all joined UPN. Methrage on more than one occasion simply stated we wouldn't get anything and better just take white peace. Oh, and almost everyone we fought in DH/NPO swore that they'd fight us forever before paying.
3) I'd be interested to see if you guys have total devotion to do this. All 40ish nations in Kaskus/MONGOLS are going, huh? Because if not, whoever's left is going to be held responsible for the actions of the alliance. I can't imagine they'd be very happy at you for that. That's a pretty crappy thing to do to your friends who are invested in staying. There are a lot of people who've invested a lot of time into nations (some of which care about that sort of thing). Do you speak for all of them?
4) Even if you did, what would that accomplish? We'd just rebuild with internal and external aid. And know that we attempted diplomacy with a bunch of self-proclaimed lunatics who'd rather delete 40 nations than pay $18,000,000 in reps. Not only is that a win in my book, it's positive PR for us. And it proves that negotiations were never a possibility in the first place.
Well, good luck with that!
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisyayL3.jpg[/img] -
Incidentally, for no particular reason I wanted to point this out. MONGOLS was originally asked for 18m in reps for what was at the time 9m, 50t, 2000s (and possibly other stuff I don't recall). Some of the aid was cancelled but at the bare minimum, 3m/50t/2000s went through. That amount was never negotiated. As of right now, MONGOLS/Kaskus have internally sent:
MONGOLS to MONGOLS:
60m
500t
28,000s
Kaskus/NEW to Kaskus:
90m
22,000s
50t ambiguous *
Kaskus to MONGOLS:
63m
12,000s
MONGOLS to Kaskus:
3m
50t
2000s
250t ambiguous
[size="1"]* Ambiguous means tech sent by itself, not along with money or soldiers (which indicates an intent of war aid). Ambiguous tech may be part of a tech deal and is counted separately for the sake of this exercise.[/size]
So, before we even talk about damage done through war, this fight so far has already cost $216,000,000 + 550 to 850 tech + 64,000 soldiers. We started by asking for 18m, and then 180m once the war started. I suppose you can argue this is a war of principle. But any arguments of our reps being "too high" are just absurd considering how much they've already spent and are going to continue to spend.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL5.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1332288313' post='2940937']
True, I will admit these guys are not what you would consider "winners" in grand scheme of things. But somehow I don't really think that is the point. Its more like, they are Terrorist organizations rather then traditional alliances. They are not really interested in winning so much as they are trying to cause as much damage as they can. You really can't apply the same strategies to them as you would an Alliance that is interested in self preservation more then proving a point. I suppose the question GOON's should be asking is whether or not this is a war worth fighting to its ultimate conclusion, or if the damage done now has sufficiently exacted retribution for what caused the conflict.
[/quote]
We've been through this tons and tons of times. We went through it in Roguefest. We had plenty of cries of "We'll never pay you reps, we'd rather fight an eternal war" during DH/NPO. We've fought Methrage like sixty times and each time he refused to do anything to get peace, but our pockets got lined anyway. It doesn't matter. And I know they think they're new and original and going to fight us forever and never pay reps, but they're not, and they aren't going to pull it off. Nobody ever has. And even if they did, we'd welcome the chance to fight. We've fought hundreds of rogues and the only one who has the ability to last is RUKUNU. And we treat him like a pet and he's part of our newbie training process. Do you really think MONGOLS/Kaskus have the dedication to keep all 40 of their nations at war with GOONs for the next few years? Fighting a superior force day in and day out, who are always going to be backed financially and militarily by the rest of Doomhouse, until all of their nations are under 5k and no longer doing any meaningful damage? I welcome that. I really do.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerishehL6.jpg[/img]
[quote name='Lord Caparo' timestamp='1332294481' post='2940984']
Cough it up :3 we nuked him
(nuked Sardonic)
[/quote]
[right]Everyone has. I'm surprised you didn't catch anything from it.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeriso_oR8.jpg[/img][/right] -
[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1332210208' post='2940467']
I don't see why him being an alliance or individual nation would have anything to do with that, although his ability to pay comes into question if you do try getting reps out of him. If you try getting reps from him that he is unable to pay, then the reps are just an excuse to keep him at war.
[/quote]
Well then, allow me to explain since you don't "don't see why." Rogues and EoGs don't generally pay reps, but alliances do. Rogues and EoGs have to complete mercy terms or be bought off by friends (a procedure you should be well-versed in). If Kaskus/MONGOLS insist he's an alliance through diplomatic ties [i][b]and[/b][/i] insist that they will not accept peace until this [s]person[/s] alliance is given peace as well, that means he's going to be held responsible for his actions and will be expected to come up with something to attain peace. Naturally he's a small [s]nation[/s] alliance and won't be able to pay reps on his own. But there are several creative venues for that. He could have MONGOLS/Kaskus pay his reps for him. He could complete extra mercy terms. He could be made to do tech deals (I believe we did this for you at one point). Obviously we aren't going to force terms on [s]a single nation[/s] an alliance that they have no way to fulfill.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL2.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1332226415' post='2940574']
Nice way to avoid a legit and honest question, I honestly hope that someday GOONS will learn that just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it. Punish an alliance with reparations when all they did was honor a treaty and help a friend in need is really a shame, that is the type of thing that make some of us wonder if GOONS is against this kind of behavior and prefer that alliances behavior cowardly.
[/quote]
No, the "legit and honest question" is "what did we do wrong?" There doesn't need to be any explanation. Reminder that our policy states: We expect reps from any alliance that declares war on us for any reason. They don't have to "do anything wrong" other than declare on us. Which is what they did. It doesn't matter if they can sweet-talk around the issue and say "But-but, but GOoooOOOooooOOONs, all we did is honor a treattyyyyyy!" They declared on us. They pay reps. Period. No avoiding, no deflecting, no skirting. There's literally nothing more to it than that. It doesn't matter if they DoWed on us for shiggles, because they thought we deserved it, or because they were honoring an MDP. Is that too difficult for you to understand?
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris9_9L2.jpg[/img]
[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1332229016' post='2940583']
"Our policy is to ask reps when we are declared on" would imply that is the only time you ask reps
[/quote]
No, that's absolutely [i][b]not[/b][/i] what that implies and if you think it is, that's why you're so incredibly wrong. This policy [i][b]exclusively[/b][/i] deals with alliances DoWing on us. It doesn't say a single word about us DoWing on them. We have different policies for wars we start. Typically we do not demand reps for wars we start. In DH/NPO we got reps from all the alliances that DoWed on us, but not NPO because we DoWed on them. As has been explained [i][b]countless[/b][/i] times however (which you either choose to ignore or simply do not have the capacity to understand), this war started because they [i][b]already[/b][/i] owed us reps and refused to pay. So we were forced to escalate the issue and they are still going to be expected to pay reps before it ends. At least [i][b]attempt[/b][/i] to soak in that information before posting again about how we're contradicting our policy.
[right][img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisfffR9.jpg[/img][/right]
[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1332242468' post='2940625']
I suppose this is as good a time as any to point out that this war is stupid, and everyone is stupid for fighting it. GOONS is incinerating their lower and mid tier over a stupid incident.
[/quote]
If all that MONGOLS/Kaskus accomplish out of this is to "incinerate our lower and mid tier," that means they've accomplished nothing. You aren't going to win a war against GOONs by destroying our 10k NS nations. It only takes a couple aid packages to restore nations of that size. Reps will cover it nicely.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisyayL2.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Lord Caparo' timestamp='1332206558' post='2940441']
After a discussion in #kaskus, i have a question for GOONs, other than Honour a treaty, what has Kaskus done wrong?
[/quote]
These sound like the words of a man who desperately wants to end the war with white peace. Why else would you be asking? There's really no point in talking about it. Or going "Aww, what did we ever do to you?" You attacked us. Shhh. Let's all stop talking and resume fighting until you're ready to pay us reps.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL12.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Lord Caparo' timestamp='1332163839' post='2940192']
If im sure, didnt Wukong send Sigelopisan soldiers to? how is it different then?
[/quote]
More things were sent after I had already spoken to NEW. So I think Sardonic is dealing with this at the moment.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL12.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1332154585' post='2940172']
I bet the logs of both conversations would show that the offers and tone were very different.
[/quote]
They were given by different people, so obviously the tone is different. The aid to MONGOLS also included tech and soldiers so it was obvious and intentional war aid. So yes, the amounts were slightly different. But it was a difference of 2x and 1x. I'm sorry, you can nitpick on details all you want but this war is the result of MONGOLS not cooperating, not GOONs. During the mercy board phase the reps were still an offer. They let that offer expire. This war is a result of multiple instances of incompetence from MONGOLS.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL7.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Lord Caparo' timestamp='1332142712' post='2940147']
And you haven't seen our post labelling them as an alliance to us, therefore they get peace WHEN we do.
[/quote]
So if he's an alliance and not an individual rogue nation, he should have to pay reps to get peace since he DoWed on us?
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL5.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1332129945' post='2940097']
Hm yes, an alliance with various ties has situation resolved with diplomacy. What a surprise.
[/quote]
We approached them in the same way we approached MONGOLS, with the same type of offer. NEW decided on diplomacy, MONGOLS did not.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL3.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1332129121' post='2940091']
I'm fairly confident you'll be doing the entertaining on that board before this world stops spinning.
[/quote]
We already do plenty of entertaining on the Mercy board. I've done terms myself. A goon is doing them right now. Except he sucks at it and is being punished.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL6.jpg[/img] -
Whoops, it looks like the NEW situation was resolved with diplomacy. Sorry we failed to prove anyone right by spazzing out and rabidly attacking them. I think the irony though is that if we do attack them we're monsters and if we don't attack them we're cowards.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris9_9L3.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='sigelopisan' timestamp='1332124872' post='2940047']
I thought only GPA do this kind of solution. The GOONS I knew, fire first, bring friends, talk, ask huge reps for peace.
[/quote]
Nope. Even in this instance we gave them more than one way out of the war. Maybe you don't know GOONs very well. Maybe we aren't as evil as you believe we are.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisyayL1.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='sigelopisan' timestamp='1332124270' post='2940041']
NEW reacted by sending the aid. How GOONS reaction? Talk cheap?
[/quote]
I know you missed a few events, so let me remind you how this war started. 1) Someone sent aid, 2) We asked for reps, 3) They said no, 4) DoW. We're only on stage 1 or 2. If it's your assumption that we just DoW on people without any sort of diplomatic process, you are gravely mistaken.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL12.jpg[/img] -
I think it says a lot about our enemies if they're rallying to post giant paragraphs of support for a single 600 NS nation.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL2.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1332089090' post='2939756']
This I would love to see, doubtful they will pursue this so rigidly as they do with a smaller alliance.
[/quote]
I am doing something about this right this moment. It will depend entirely on NEW's reaction.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL11.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1332075211' post='2939639']
Just demanding something from someone doesnt mean they owe you. If I demand $500m today and you say no its not a good CB attacking you would be akin to a young child demanding something then squealing on the floor if they dont get their way
[/quote]
Expecting reps when people aid someone you're at war (including tech and soldiers) with isn't the same as demanding $500m for no reason. But you are totally and completely free to demand $500m from GOONs and then attack us when we say no. In fact I encourage you to.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL7.jpg[/img]
[quote name='NoMercy' timestamp='1332075797' post='2939645']
"We charge reps to anyone who attacks us aggressively" is just dump if not meant in the technical sense. (meaning to actually post the first DoW, and hit you). If you don't see it in the actual sense, you can extort this definition to every war and every CB that ever existed on this planet. If you are really serious with it, you also must admit that NPO was aggressively attacked by GPA etc. etc.
[/quote]
It's not our business to care what NPO and GPA are doing between themselves. If an alliance decides to attack us, they're paying reps. We don't have to find any lawyers to twist that definition around. Only very slimy weasels would try to argue that the line between aggressive and defensive wars is too blurry to distinguish. Much like the aforementioned people who activated an oA clause and tried to claim it was a defensive war. This thread is literally a DoW on GOONs. Are you really arguing that it's not an aggressive war on GOONs?
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris9_9L1.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1332061097' post='2939582']
Funny to see them trying to get reps in a war they declared, trying to get reps out of Mongols as well.
[/quote]
The war with MONGOLS started over reps they already owed us and refused to pay. Kaskus is being charged for attacking us aggressively. I know these are big, difficult to understand concepts for you so I don't expect it to click.
[right][img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisO_OX1.jpg[/img][/right]
[quote name='Lord Caparo' timestamp='1332062255' post='2939585']
They'll probably try and justify it by saying they are doing the right thing by extorting alliances who come in to defend there ally when they attack them.....
[/quote]
The justification we have [i][b]always[/b][/i] used and will [i][b]continue[/b][/i] to use is that we charge reps to anyone who attacks us aggressively, regardless of their reason. Yes, we're all fully aware that Kaskus is "defending allies." We're also all fully aware that doing so would result in reps. It is just as equally a law of this universe and you must accept it. Sorry, we will not be allowing any alliances to freely attack us without retribution, as convenient as that would be for you.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL11.jpg[/img]
KARMA always comes full circle!
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1332452375' post='2941758']
We need more people willing to declare war for what they believe is right, not less.
[/quote]
It's funny because when we do this, we're bullies and cowards.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisfffL7.jpg[/img]