Rush Sykes
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Posts posted by Rush Sykes
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Here's how things look to me:
1) Moo says something to IronChef about them breaking terms, but IronChef says it's cool
2) IronChef talks to mhawk about it, he thinks she's saying Athens is going to attack
3) mhawk tells Moo Athens is going to attack
4) Moo tells GGA
5) GGA talks to Athens
All a bunch of confusion, with a hilarious result, but no scheming, plotting or anything of the sort. A hilarious communication error that happened to be with people high enough up for it to actually matter.
This is actually plausible. And probably the ONLY scenario where nobody is lying.
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Insofar as I can tell, no one is really at fault. Kinda rare for these situations, but this is like the telephone game you play in preschool where messages get confused and twisted as they pass from person to person. Everyone could have likely handled it better.
I would disagree with the assessment that nobody is at fault. One of the three...Moo, Mhawk, or Ironchef is the originator of the "Athens is going to roll you" bit....All 3 say they heard it 1st from one of the other 3....they cant all be telling the truth. Hence, someone is lying. And one only lies, when one has something to save by lying.
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I still don't see anything along the lines of "I think that..." or "I understand this to be..." All of the logs, even the more complete ones at the beginning of this disaster, have Moo citing some unknown source (later revealed to be mhawk, who confirmed it). Where are we getting the "Moo originated the rumor"? I'm lost!
As near as I can tell, the issue is that Mhawk said he got it from ironchef...who said she got it from moo....who said he got it from Mhawk...
Its a funny circle, and of those 3, one of them is lying, whether intentional or not. That is all I know.
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OK so here's what we have now.
Moo tells Ironchef Athens was going to attack GGA.
Ironchef tells mhawk.
Mhawk tells Moo.
Moo tells Ironchef.
If this was a sitcom, it'd be a smash hit
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"what is this i dont even" has never fit so well in a CN thread before...
Quoted for absolute truth.
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Just as a point of clarification, was the post earlier about TPFs cancellation on GGA AFTER the 72 hour notice, or are we in that 72 hour time frame?
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Dude, in the last 6 months GGA has done what can only be described as the most face-palm worthy !@#$ in the history of Planet Bob. So, frankly, what you or anyone else think makes logical sense or not has no bearing on what GGA does. I wish I was kidding. But, even all that nonsense aside, it is generally safer to simply get the real logs and make your own interpretations rather than take someone else's word for it which may often be personally skewed.
That may well be true, and I concede the point. But, this "manipulation" was based on several assumptions that would have to come true...and if they crafted this as well as they did, to come full circle to them as a warning from Moo, while so much of it was based on dumb luck...then by Admin, I want them to pick me some lotto numbers...that is a lucky streak you dont see every day.
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So we move from one horrible thing to another? Sorry, I'm just not a real big fan of the whole mob mentality. I'd prefer people to show alittle respect and civility. I guess that is asking for alittle to much though, this is Cybernations afterall.
I suppose that depends on your perspective of horrible. When all at once, the masses feel free to finally state their opinions openly, it is human nature that those opinions would be negative opinions of those perceived to have been their oppressor. Looking back at all the 1V, ~ wars of the past, the gang mentality is certainly nothing new.
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Dude, I'm the last guy to defend NPO, but you should probably get the actual logs of the convo rather than someone else's 2nd-hand version.
To you, I would pose the same question I posed to Heft. For the actual logs to matter, you would have to....
1) Accept that GGA told Mhawk they were getting rolled by Athens....
2) Accept that GGA knew Mhawk would tell Moo
3) Accept that GGA KNEW Mhawk would not tell Moo who told him
4) Accept that GGA knew Moo would come and warn them
5) ????????
6) PROFIT!
I mean...really? Seriously?
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That's great hippo of critical thought and civility, thank you very much.
As to your inquiry, gentle traveler, I take issue with the immediate acceptance of a very one-sided portrayal of events as facts, and believe that the only reason such a thing happened was because there are too many people zealously dedicated to believing NPO can only do wrong, and do wrong in the most manipulative and evil way possible. The OP is mostly logs between GGA and Athens government, it looks like, which seems kind of useless when talking about GGA/NPO interactions, and I don't understand why the pertinent details in those (GGA/Athens) logs weren't simply written into the post, unless they wanted to prop up the credibility of their position, or maybe they just didn't feel like writing, which is cool too.
I have no doubt that the basic facts (Moo told GGA peace was being retracted when it wasn't) are in fact true. But the OP then extrapolates from this basic fact the implication that the NPO was devilishly attempting to manipulate their allies into re-entering the war. Critical, even marginally objective, thinking would indicate that that seems like a really convoluted, saturday-morning-cartoon-villain scheme doomed to failure. So to accept this explanation you have to also accept that the NPO, and especially Moo, are enacting absurd schemes to eek out every drop of their allies blood they possibly can, and also that they're really, really, horrendously bad at it.
You also have to ignore the much more obvious explanation, which seems to be true, which is just that "Moo was honestly wrong."
If the given explanation is unnecessarily convoluted, and there is a readily apparent alternative explanation that hasn't been addressed in any way, then anyone who is approaching such a situation objectively, with critical thinking, should quickly go "hmm, this doesn't quite seem right."
Even yourself, good sir, would have to admit, it is rather convoluted to expect that Mhawk and Moo discussed this impending re-declaration of war by Athens with one another, without Mhawk ever once mentioning to him that he got the info from GGA themselves( a fact that, in this case is HUGE, as it would negate the necessity of Moo to go to GGA and warn them about all of this.) This whole package seems to be wrapped way to neatly and tightly. Mhawk has proven, time and again, that he is Moo's most staunch ally. It is unfathomable that at no point when Mhawk was telling Moo all of this, Moo would not say "what is your source" and even more unfathomable that Mhawk would not divulge his source.
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I guess you must have missed all those DoW's by NPO and friends on all those little alliances and the hail fests that followed? This is nothing new, just on the other side this time.
Im REALLY glad someone said this, saves me from having to. Its truly amazing what happens when the left shoe is on the right foot.
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Buffalo Soldier-Bob Marley
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Before you go back to the boondocks,
, several of alliances under the aegis of Karma were just as complicit in the "crimes" committed against other alliances. They took part and were supporters of Pacifica. Besides that fact, what is this list of "crimes"? Does anyone have a definite list of "crimes" that we can see? Is it the list of alliances that people have as propaganda in their sigs? I'm just curious as to the extent of the "crimes" Pacifica and the rest of the "hegemony" are charged with by Karma.
As for the bolded part, CN as a whole, including karma, is just as responsible for not doing something against something they found reprehensible. It's not like the alliances that fight as part of Karma suddenly reached a point where they felt appalled by Pacifica's practices. If what NPO was doing has been so reprehensible, why did all of these alliances just wait as people were driven from the game? Were they cowards or just didn't feel confident that they could win at the time? I await an answer.
This is a pretty short-sighted view of several different things.
Are there alliances on the karma side that have supported NPO, even staunchly supported them, in their commission of global atrocities? Absolutely. Point conceded. There is, a tangible difference though. Were they truly the same as NPO in their lust for power, they could have easily once again supported Pacifica in this endeavor, leading ultimately to a curbstomp the other way. Why didnt they? I will give them the benefit of the doubt, and hope that they finally said "enough is enough." The aqua alliances that Athens and C n G as a whole have worked closely with certainly seem to fit in that mold. The fact is, though, only time will tell. Sometimes, in life, alcholics, womanizers, and gamblers, for instance, look in the mirror and say to themselves, "I have to change or I am headed to ruin." Give them the chance to personify that change, I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised.
As to CN as a whole being responsible for NPOs atrocities, that is both correct, and incorrect at any given time. Example, when C n G formed, we(they, since I was in FINAL at the time, and not a proud Athenian), they were a force in the cyberverse that was appalled at the way innocent alliances were manipulated and herded to their deaths for reasons which amounted to little more than bloodlust. Should C n G on day 1 have declared war on the Hegemony? Not to toot C n Gs horn here, or make us more important than we are, but that would have been just stupid and gotten us killed, probably over and over again. So, being as C n G has some of the brightest minds on Bob in it, they determined that eventually, the political sphere as a whole would shift to an anti-Hegemony stance. Its an inevitable fact. It would be far better for us to be an instrument of change if we were strengthened, hardened, and united both in numbers and spirit when the time arose. Opportunity knocked, and here we are. Had we "done something about it" from day 1, there would not have been a door for opportunity to knock on.
Side note: I tried to sound as eloquent as Archon and show off that fine WVU hangov...errr...education. Be patient, its my 1st attempt at eloquence.
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Damned happy to see this treaty.
Athens is a class act, and I'm proud to have my signature on this document.
Also, Heya, JGoods!!!
Class Act??? With people like RSox and JGoods? They make kobolds look classy!
Oh, and this treaty is AWESOME.
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Jarheads is the place to be post-war!
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If by AirMe you mean Archon
Me buries head in the sand!
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Thanks, except I'm Archon, not AirMe.
GAH...fixed...I was just reading AirMe in another thread and got confused. I blame that solely on Londos stench. He really needs to shower.
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Well, this thread turned out exactly as expected. Hegemony loyalists and members are going to run the same propaganda talking points (ZOMG, KARMA=HEGEMONY IF WE GET BIG REPS, big reps are mean spirited, if you give us big reps you will also do x y and z, and of course my personal favorite "we've done nothing to deserve that level of reparations"). Those members of Karma who are not Hegemony loyalists (the distribution should be fairly obvious to see) are going to advocate large reparations for one of three reasons: Hindering the regrowth of the enemy, assisting in the regrowth of their own alliance, or vengeance. Of course, any mixture of those reasons is also a possible motivation.
So we can sit here and let the Hegemony attempt to guilt trip Karma into giving them lighter terms with any number of hypocritical and ignorant arguments (such as claiming reparations are in violation of what Karma stands for, despite there never having been any formalized statement of precisely what Karma stands for), or you can let the alliances involved set the numbers and you either take them or die. But please, please please, don't go on about fair. Because what you should remember about MK's reparations that everyone loves to cite is this: The justification was "you should be lucky you're getting terms at all." And while I've seen a number of Hegemony alliances valiantly offer to fight to the bitter end, I don't recall seeing any Karma alliance threaten disbandment.
You lost, Hegemony. IRON, TPF, NPO, and the rest of you. You lost very, very badly. And while I'm sure you'll get a number of individuals to fluster and bluster if you get terms that you think are unfair (and take that as you will - I've seen a lot math done in this thread to attempt to quantify "fair"), ultimately you're either going to accept terms or you're going to continue losing. And since the best tactical purpose toward reparations is to hinder the enemy's ability to regrow, by refusing to accept terms you're just continuing to hinder your ability to regrow by allowing yourself to be blown up some more, so I doubt those Karma alliances waiting on you really mind all that much.
If you didn't want to be in this position, there were a million times you could have done something to stop any of the many abhorrent deeds committed by the Hegemony as a collective group. That's what's great about a collective security agreement. But you never did.
I dont like Archon. He says the same thing I say, but it is 1 million times more eloquent and easier to read. I demand that either you stop making sense, or pay me reps for my college tuition, which was obviously wasted. Anyways, READ what this man says, he is most wise.
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Just my opinion on the matter...but....
I feel the reps for the 4 remaining, should be rather large all the way around. Those who want to point out that actions that many Karma alliances were once solid hegemony alliances, to them I say this : Actions matter. Is there anyone who thinks this war would not have turned out totally different had Fark, MHA, GRE, TOP, Sparta, and FOK all took the hegemony side? In my eyes, these alliances stood up and said "Enough". They could have easily stayed with the other side and been involved in a curbstomp the other way. They did not. The remaining alliances, all had the same opportunity to look at the whole situation as it unfolded over the past few months and say "You know what, I cant believe we were a part of this." They, instead, remained loyal to the very criminal that has plagued this planet with unabashed bullying, underhandedness, maniuplation, and herding "friends" to the slaughterhouse. They assisted them in assuming more control over the game than even Admin had. The promoted, threatened, and enacted PZI on people, and alliances, thereby attempting to only let those they deemed fit to play this game, play this game. All the while, their closest allies stood by and did nothing. The TOP's. Gremilins, Spartas, FOKs, MHAs and Farks of the world, had no way to win in this war. If they did the right thing, as they did, and assisted in the dismantling of these self-deified imperialists, they would forever be the rallying cry of the other side..."They did what we did, why do they get to survive." If they stay on the other side, they have to again look at themselves in the mirror and decide if they like enabling the criminal practices of the other side. The 2 sides are completely and totally different. One side could only lose, the other side could not win. What a paradox for them. If karma, as a spiritual entity is real, they may someday pay for their part in those crimes. However, they have paid for their crimes in my eyes, by, in the end, doing what is right, and not what is easy. So, to this end, I say, the reps for all those remaining on the other side, should be steep for all involved. Good people in each alliance? Sure. But you lose the identity of being good INDIVIDUALS when you run with a pack that commits atrocity after atrocity.
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True on the one count. The question is with the second bit of your statement. Couldn't the losing alliance try to hold out for better terms? FAN held out. They got White Peace. IT was a long time coming and you could question if all the time and loss of members and strength was worth it in the end but I think they are quite happy to be back and not attached to paying reps or having to conform to a military decom etc.
FAN held out an got white peace yes. Now ask yourself though, is FANs current white peace REALLY a better term? How much NS did they lose by not being able to build? How many members got weary of playing a game they couldnt really play? The thing is, you can hold out and take a larger beating for smaller reps...but does what you lose, during that harder beating, really outweigh the more you would have to pay? This question really has no answers as the variables are unlimited, and change with every CM fired.
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The second actually was quite appalling, considering Athens was very small at the time, hadn't done that much damage, was defending an ally who also just defending an ally, and only had a few hundred thousands NS and 16,000 tech. It would be the equivalent of TPF having to pay 150,000 tech, or NPO having to pay about 500,000 tech.
This...and We...I...Dont forget.
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Truth be told, no one ever ends up fighting any wars 1v1 any more.
If you are on the "winning" side it's generally because you are at a 2-1 or 3-1 or more advantage.
If you are losing you are generally 1-2 or 1-3 if not worse.
The last war to some extent and this one to the extreme are different than any wars in the past due to the immediate use of nukes and the fact that nukes are so powerful now. Before it was tough to go 1 vs 2 or 3, now it's basically impossible if you are in nuke range and your opponents are even semi-coordinated.
Quoted for truth.
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Thank you. I never payed attention to CN politics until a few weeks ago and because I wasn't around when these things happened, I never know why the haters until I ask. I appreciate you taking the time to clear that up.
Just as long as you understand its really nothing personal. People sometimes take alliance banter too seriously. They are just my opinions, and at the end of the day, mean nothing. Thank you for being respectful.
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You come along and attack TPF in every single thread our name comes up in. What is it exactly that we did to hurt you so?
The truth of the matter is, this is the 1st thread dealing specifically with TPF that I have ever been a part of. Further truth is , I dont know anyone in TPF. But, I have been on the wrong side of TPF and her allies a time or 4. More truth, I have not attacked TPF. I have debated, barbed and jabbed with Mogar on many topics, most because I think he has a narrow view of world events. But, attack TPF....no. The statement you quote is simply a reply to someone in TPF talking about being impressed with 1 on 1 victories. Having watched the way ~ and 1V wars have unfolded....I found this to be utterly hypocritical and amazingly funny. But, I will give you a chance to make me wrong. Find me the last war TPF was in that they won, that even remotely resembled a 1 on 1.....Go ahead, take your time, I will wait. Finally, dont take my posts personally. This thread just happens to be about TPF.
Edit: If you were referring to the dialect exchanged with mhawk in the FAN thread, do note, that wasnt an attack on TPF, it merely an amazement, at the "coincidence" that you are being militarily upended, and suddenly, after nearly 2 years, you wanna give FAN white peace and pretend like it had nothing to do with the current war. Truth be told, I gained a measure of respect for mhawk in the way he handled himself, even though I didnt believe a word he said.
, several of alliances under the aegis of Karma were just as complicit in the "crimes" committed against other alliances. They took part and were supporters of Pacifica. 
The funniest people in CN
in Open World RP
Posted
Funniest Person Overall= Mpol
The person responsible for the single largest laugh I ever got? I wont even mention the name, I will just say.....Did you Polar really too stupid to read?