Rajistani

I would have to say TOP. but on GDAs forums, members in good standing can get a read only mask to the government section with the govt.'s approval.

your only .1 away! yay (p.s. i hate your sarcasm) RoK has the most slots in the war... i guess they didn't realize that even though NPO as an alliance is down, its individual nations can still fight =/ I'm sure they will rebuild quickly though.

double post.

Looks good, congrats. www.GDAcn.com if you want to open relations

They were real life friends i believe. 300 million for a nuke or two is hardly cheap. I understand 230 million was for VE nations, and 70 was for Sparta, but still 70 million is steep. We recently lost 3 million of our tNS in war, we cannot afford this, we have members to rebuild. Edit: typo

No GeorgeTheGreat option? Also, who the hell is James dahl?

It can only be paid by nations above 1,000 tech. What is winging? (im being serious, not familiar with the term) How many nations have left VE since you started this war? Exactly. Original terms: "All reparations of technology must be paid by nations with greater than or equal to 1000.00 technology at the end of the above-mentioned 14 day period." Terms reworded: Click Note that the terms are reworded A DAY after NPO posts that. That means they weren't changed while NPO gave the counter offer, or while considering that counter offer. This means Karma wanted it to be 1000 tech after the 14 days (+ the undetermined period of getting 90% of nations in war mode) for atleast 7 days.

Uhm.. its not 2 weeks of war. Its undetermined period PLUS 2 weeks.

1) FAN was offered terms after they violated (theres multiple screen shots of them violating, yeah by 5% over their soldier allowance in some cases, but thats still violating. It was 80% of FAN in violation). 2) NPO has no problem paying reps, or even more than the reps amount. I believe the problem is that NPO doesn't want their banks to be nukes for an undetermined amount of days PLUS fourteen days, and then be forced to pay all those reps. Not all nations in peace mode are banks, some are people who are graduating from college now and don't have time to be on, some are out of the country on summer trips, etc. Also, as the OP suggests, these banks would need 1.8 billion to handle ONLY fourteen days of war, plus whatever more days are added. Turtling gives money to the attacker from the game, not the turtlers' nation. QFT. The terms were changed by Londo. It was originally nations who had 1,000+ tech AFTER the fourteen days of war. Link to change click. Londo said multiple times that "we will not change terms" etc. There are IRC logs posted all over the place.

Not counting that april fools bloc, yeah.

Or something Also, o/ GDA back on the right track

LoSS... ODN... many others. MHA who entered on the other side late in the war even though they had 4 treaties being called on from the other side, before entering on the winning side. But thats neither here nor there

The addition of "Alliance affiliation" to the nations.

FAN said they would only take white peace; NPO is paying the reps, they have no problem doing so. GPA was also the largest alliance in history. Even larger than NPO is/was now/at their peak. But yes, I see your point. You seem to have skipped a few key points: - It can only be paid by people above 1,000 tech - You are saying Every nation in peac emode has been in peace mode since the beginning, thats not the case, only 63 have. So your number 60, suggests all of them have about 2 bill saved, which can't be the case since some are in the middle of jumps (one is at like 5,050 iirc), which means they have little to no warchest. Otherwise they would have put it in infra, especially if they have around 2 billion. Also, if you divide the number of wonders these "banks" have with their seniority and correlate it with the fact that they have never been in war (as moo said in some logs), you will see that they haven't been buying wonders every 30 days. If they had warchests so large, it is probable that they would be doing so. Also, only 25 have bought wonders since the war started, 58 days, which means that approximately 35 don't have an excessively large war chest. - Some others coverd by other people. See above. Also, that 1000 tech was clarified by Londo while i was posting this in the 60 page thread. The original terms said that they had to have 1,000 tech. I believe the problem is not the amount of reps, or the fact that nations will be attacked or forced to exit peace mode. The problem is that natoins will be forced to exit peace mode and stay out of peace mode until 90% of NPO is out of peace mode PLUS 14 days. After 2 months of perpetual war... (73 days after these 14 days).

Its not going to be for only 14 days, as outlined in the post, that would mean 90% efficiency (somewhere it was stated that this is 7 nations still in peace mode), most likely that will not happen. I took into account that nations with a war chest over 50 million at the END of the 14 days will be able to build back up to 5k infra. And that they will be able to send out 3 million indefinitely. It has to be paid by nations over 1,000 tech level. I don't see where this "your" comes from, since I am not NPO, and also collecting while being nuked daily is not much of a collect, dunno if you know. This doesn't take into account that nations over 1,000 tech will have to pay the reps. Also, its not "2 cycles" NPO would have been at war for 11 cycles if they signed the terms yesterday. As of now, who knows? And 300,000/1750 = 1200 tech cycles, which means 12,000 days. You want NPO to pay reps for 4 years? Aye, that seems to be their main concern. Yours calculates the amount of damage, and the ability to pay reps; mine is to calculate how long the reps would take if signed.

I know its not on you, but shouldn't of Karma as a whole have said "Reps to not exceed 300k tech and 7 billion" then?

Are you forseeing problems? You would do better to create the thread when a problem arises, if a problem arises in say, a week, and you use this thread, you will be warned for grave digging.

Have you read the original post Technically not so much, its worse than the original terms FAN got, but FAN violated those terms, and then got worse terms. NPO never really violated terms at this point. Honestly Londo the llama god is probably one of the only sane people during the whole reps logs (i read 'em). Massive respect to him, he may not be showing himself in the best light at the moment, but most likely because he has been infuriated by people who think they can read the english language and feel NPO is bashing them. If you look through the thread you will see most of the Londo bashing doesn't come from NPO.

Apologies, just got linked to this: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...p;#entry1609825

Attempted legitimate breakdown of reps: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=60485

tl;dr it will take NPO 1.8 years to pay reps if using 100% of slots. Sorry need to start a new thread, because there is no doubt that AP thread is about to be locked in my mind. Anyways I am attempting to make this as unbiased as possible. Reps asked for: 300,000 tech and 7,000,000 CN money (to be paid in tech or money). I will be covering the money first, and I will be assuming NPO can hit the 90% war mode mode within 1 day. Currently: 63 nations above 5,000 infra in peace mode for the new pacific order. We will give 33% of those nations a large war chest. At least a 500,000,000 dollar war chest, which is enough to last the 14 days of war doing nothing, and send out 15 million every 10 days indefinitely. I was in the noCB war, defensively, with my previous, quite large, nation. This war was all out everything, i was in a 3 versus 1, a similar situation we can expect all of these "banks" to be in. I spent approximately 15 million everyday. (Why so much? when in a 3 v 1 you are usually at a tech disadvantage and are losing your planes and whatnot, and assuming these guys have massive warchests, they will continue to rebuy so they can do attacks). That includes losses from nukes, etc. The nations in peace mode have never been in war, according to NPO. In that sense, the nations in peace mode will lose 15 million * 14 days = 210 million. This leaves 21 nations who were in peace mode that can effectively be banks. I will double this number to account for the nations that are still in war with exceptionally large warchests. They have been in war for 58 days, plus 14, which means I am giving 21 NPO nations warchests at the start of the war with over 1.73 billion war chests. That is 1.73 billion because of the war costs times 63 plus 65 million, the amount necessary to get back to a "banking level." That leaves 42 NPO nations with the ability to send out 15 million every 10 days. 7000000000 dollars / 3000000 dollars per slot = 2334 slots (rounded up because round down would mean it wasn't fully paid). ( 2334 slots / (42 nations * 3 slots each) ) * 10 days per slot cycle = 18.518 = 19 cycles = 190 days = 6.333 monthes for the money payments. Note: its 3 slots to allow 2-3 slots per nation for removing people from bill-lock and rebuilding. Tech Payments Tech losses: 80 from nukes. 16 from ground. 9.6 from CMs. Per day it will be (80 nukes + (16 * 6 ground attacks) + (9.6 * 6 CMs)) = 233.6 tech 233.6 * 14 days = 3270.4 tech per nation. Tech can only be paid by nations over 1,000 tech level 3270.4 + 1000 = Minimum current tech level needed by nations today in order to pay reps (if terms were accepted today instead of rejected) NPO has 11 nations above that mark. NINE of which fall into the peace mode calculation above. Assuming all 9 of these nations will be able to send out 3 mill + 50t for every slot, and Karma has nations that will accept this, rather than the 300k tech and money being paid separately we have: Kingdom of Dark 11,109.68 - 4270 = 6839 tech Citizen 6,915.83 - 4270 = 2645 Shada 6,620.93 - 4270 = 2350 SetiCrunchers 5,752.52 - 4270 = 1482 Itally 5,716.60 - 4270 = 1446 YTMND 5,341.04 - 4270 = 1071 Aryan Alliance 5,318.33 - 4270 = 1048 MrsBehney Nation 4,920.45 - 4270 = 650 Nova Roma 4,852.56 - 4270 = 582 The Borat Empire 4,827.87 - 4270 = 557 Klondike 4,298.45 - 4270 = 28 If we add all this together; we get 11 859 tech. That is 288 141 short of Karma's reps if NPO sent ALL their tech. Furthermore it would take Kingdom of dark 27.4 (28) cycles to pay all his tech if he sent 250 every 10 days. That is 9.3333 monthes. So hypothetically, these nations, and others that are just under the 1,000 mark, would have to buy technology, and then send it off. It would take 50 days for a cycle. (1,000 tech nation buys 100 tech at 3mill/50/50 - 30 days - then sends 50/50 to Karma - 20 days). Now you may be saying, why doesn't that nation selling just have the tech sent to Karma directly? It would cut alot of days off. Karmas terms dictate that the tech must be sent by nations over 1,000 technology. This remaining 288,141 tech would have to be paid 100 tech at a time in 50 days cycles. Assuming these nations have enough money to buy tech, 3 are ZIed on this list). At that rate it would take 290 aid slots (288141tech / 100 tech). Assuming each nation can carry 5 forever, those 290 aid slots can be split by the 11 above nations, once they reach their 1,000 tech mark. It would take them 5.272727 50 day cycles. So 300 days to have it fully paid, but some will only go for 50 days. This is in addition to the 9.333 months for the first 11.8k tech and in addition to the 6.333 monthes of cash (since in 50 day cycles, a nation cannot send 3mill +50tech every 10 days). This brings us to a grand total of 1.8 years of this 700 man alliance paying reps (adjusted to account that 6 mill + 100 tech can be sent every 50 day cycle). Note: That this does not account for nations rebuilding past the 1,000 tech level mark and then paying towards the reps. but it does not count for nations that will leave NPO rather than spending a year and a half paying reps, and it assumes that these nations will be provided slots by karma without "all slots in use" and that these nations will not be sending money to their own alliance in the TECH scenario. Also it counts that these nations will have 100% efficiency, and that NPO will get into war mode in 14 days, which is most likely not the case. Note: I apologize for any mistakes, I am sleepy.

Working on it.

Accepted, and failed to abide by them. Do you suggest NPO accepts these amounts and refuses to pay?

Sorry for the multiple posts, but i had too many quotes. Just quoted to prove an earliar point of mine. Agreed that it will be remembered, but also agreed that they managed to hang on, other alliances like ONOS or TDSM8 or whomever did not.

None of the math, including NPOs has been correct. There are plenty of screen shots of those offending. FAN chose to defend those that were not complying to peace terms. FAN said that they would only accept white peace. NPO (and friends, I should add), didn't give them white peace, does that make them the bad guys? Shall I point you towards the original post of this thread? You can't exactly force an alliance to disband, but I do see your point. No perma-ZIs have been proved (yet, I should add). With the exception of Johnathan Brodbank (spelling error?), but he rerolled under the same name... I do not ever recall the reps by NPO having to be paid for by nations over a certain size limit. Agreed; GATOs nations may not have necessarily been banks, but again I see what you mean. And vice versa, it was not too long ago when reps were representative of the damage caused by the losing alliance. So by this amount of reps, one could guess that NPO dealt a lot of damage on their way down. Ivan Moldavi commited most of these "crimes" that NPO is currently being blamed for. He is on Karma's side now, leader of one of the Karma alliances, if you take the loose definition of Karma as the alliances that declared on NPO and its allies.