Yevgeni Luchenkov
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Posts posted by Yevgeni Luchenkov
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Seems that nation should have been the victim of your wrath, but instead you chose to hit innocent nations thus negating your moral argument.
It is irresponsible to think one nation is responsible for a whole alliance. As many previous posts have stated before in this thread, your argument is seen, understood and dismissed.
Many other posts seem to be sympathetic to our actions.
Other than that, one nation is always responsible for the whole alliance, just like the alliance is responsible for the welfare of each of its nations. Or where do you draw that arbitrary line? Two nations? Three nations? Since it seems that your government doesn't think your alliance should be held responsible for the actions of its members, where do you draw the line?
'Cause the way I'm reading it, if one of your members decided to nuke a member of another alliance, surely you think your alliance shouldn't be held responsible? Say two or three? Or five? Wars have been started numerous times in the past for the actions of a handful of individuals, sometimes even one. Even global wars.
By the way, we're not claiming the moral high ground or anything of the sort.
N.B: If one nation isn't responsible for the alliance, why would alliances expel a member-at-fault and label him a rogue? Or why would rogues even exist?
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By the way: "NpO even joins them in defending their tech raid by attacking those they know are friends of RLMMO" is revisionist history at its finest. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the RLMMO attack, ZDP declared war on GOONS. You put it in a thread title and everything.
From our point of view, this "tech raid" was a declaration of war on RLMMO. It seems to go with the whole "Declare war" maneuver or the fact that your troops actually invaded the territory of one of their nations.
At least, can we expect a DoW from NpO?
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I think you both are getting it wrong: the goal is mostly to take a stand and say enough is enough. I don't know how GOONS, specifically, operate but most tech raiding "negotiations" usually end up in a settlement, with some reps being paid to the victim, a symbolic 3m or 6m$. Not only is it less than the damage taken (by a good margin, often times), it also gets annoying when you are repeatedly raided and you're told, everytime, that you will have to take that stipend or get nothing at all.
From that point on, the only way to get your point across is to retaliate. If not, you're essentially painting a target on yourself, a big red target that says: "come take my land and my tech, we won't do anything about it".
You are not really the guys they want to influence even if I bet they will get their point across and, in the future, you will not raid them. The damage they do on your nations is much more important: it says to all raiders that they can expect the same kind of retaliation in the future.
You may say that they are taking much more damage in the process. Sure, it's a fact. But they'll also deal a good lot of damage, what ammounts to a very costly "tech raid" in the end. Few alliances are willing to risk losing a couple hundred thousands NS over a tech raid, you know.
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Sad to see, I really liked you guys and the theme of this alliance.
May you find good homes,
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I doubt anyone would want to sign that pact with your alliance now seeing how you operate.
I'm not sure you've read the OP thoroughly. We don't sign treaties, at all.
We're trying something relatively new; though the idea behind it has been floating around for a few years already. Many small alliances don't get treaties out of laziness or inactivity, we do it by purpose. Other than that, we're all for good relations with foreign alliances and I think we will do just fine, thank you.
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It's not my fault that's how game mechanics works. I'll make a stand for my friend's in GOONS. Sure UINE and GOONS don't have an official treaty, but friendship is apparently justification to go to war with another alliance now.
It is, for us. You might want to double-check with your leaders and allies, unless you want to set a precedent that might be used against you. We're fine with it. Heck, we're honored to see you need more than a 132-strong alliance to take RLMMO and us out.
By the way, it's called a military strategy. I'm not sure about your alliance but I'm pretty positive your allies use peace mode as such, too. You know, to make the war lasts longer and to be able to declare on your terms, coming out full guns blazing when you're ready, etc.
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Come out of peace mode and say that.
I think the peace mode argument has already been covered in page 2 by Alterego.
I'll come out of peace mode soon enough, don't worry about that.
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Actually, you didn't venture into what those "other details" might be, Chairman Hal. You simply pointed out what is evidently a typo, one that will be corrected as soon as a mod gets around to it.
For the rest, you're correct. We're a small alliance, taking a stand, helping friends. We know we will be badly damaged by this war.
We also contacted both Kronos and GOONS.
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So, if I get this right, people who were up in arms when Athens (your alliance, which you vehemently defended back then) and FoB did a massive tech raid on an isolated alliance; those people were faux moralists.
When people wanted to retaliate against Knights of Ni's raiders, it was faux moralism. But when Athens declares it will retaliate against your potential raiders, something you confirm by saying they will attack only rogues and raiders, all is fine?
Don't you find it a bit contradictory, not to say outright hypocrit?
Edit: Seems like comrade deSouza beat me to it, arg.
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Small comment, regarding the OP:
People will support their side regardlessI would say Vox proved that wrong. You should know, it's how you came to be liberated from EZI/PZI.
Many reasons can explain why people rallied to counter the NPO but Vox propaganda was certainly effective. What you are seeing, right now, is no different and even your post, to some extent, is part of today's propaganda, considering your status in this world (AA, AA's allies, your influence).
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On my fourth nation. Twice with this name. Another one, way back then.
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If more people played roles, it would definitely help. More proactive - or some would say evil - alliances could form and maybe bind together. As it stands, we're ruled by a vast network of people who play CN in the most traditional sense: never start an aggressive war (their allies would abandon them) and, if you do, quickly backdown as pressure mounts instead of assuming it. Then do some public posturing about how peace prevailed for the good of everyone while just about everyone is actually longing for war.
NPO assumed the tyrant role to a large extent; it permitted a lot of us to assume an opposite role. A basic scenario but, at least, it got people hooked on something. Now, it's mostly an emptyland where everyone is simply going for its own interests, in the most honorable way possible.
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You have finally announced it, BE, eh?
Congratulations and good luck, may this be the first of many successes.
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IS performed bombing runs etc, which is why people were so outraged. This is a tech raid, two ground attacks and then peace. Athens has always tech raided, this is no different.
You mean 4, as per your updated charter, no?
Also, when was it updated, I'm curious?
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I'm fairly sure that's why people attack individuals in situations like this. It's known as tech raiding.
And they, in turn, do it because they can get away with it, knowing their immediate comrades and allies will protect them and their alliance against any possible retaliation. Athens and FoB simply did it on a larger scale, which is usually called a war by everyone else, besides Athens and FoB it seems.
In short, you just proved my point.
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Because it's Athens' fault that Knights of Ni don't know how to defend their alliance.
If you don't want to be tech raided, you either get strong enough to defend yourself, or find another alliance who will do it for you. Knights of Ni are no exception.
Let's be honest, here.
Athens and FoB are only acting because the Knights of Ni don't have enough allies and members to really mount an effective defense.
For example, they could have declared (my bad, mass tech raided) on the protectorate of a major alliance. Or many other small alliances who are less isolated. They didn't.
It's Might Makes Right. Actually, your own post is the very definition of that. Thanks for proving me right, I guess.
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Might Makes Right becomes fashionable again.
Hail Athens and FoB.
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Congratulations on this fine achievement, friends.
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Congratulations on this fine day, OMFG!
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Hopefully, the Swan will not die as she sings her last verse.
Good luck to ye and yours,
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The number of Prophets on Planet Bob is truly astounding. A posteriori, at least. Listening to some people, it was a well known fact that the Karma war was going to come on April 20th and was going to play out exactly that way.
Hindsight and all that, I guess.
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Actually yes, Sal.
Glad to see this. To OBR!
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Happy birthday Argent.
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As was said earlier: good riddance.
Announcement from the desk of the custodial engineer third class
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
How has it backfired in their face, exactly?
They didn't think that by retaliating they would scare you off. It would be laughable for a common alliance but you folks have been known for such raids and a rather loose set of ethics. They knew they wouldn't make you give them peace, heck they're not dumb enough not to know how to get peace when it is written "pm for peace".
We're not trying to spin away from this war. RLMMO and the ZDP entered, knowing full well what was against us. Now, GOONS are calling allies, it's fine, I suppose it is their right, even if we must remark that for micro-alliances that would barely hurt your alliance, as you claimed earlier (I am paraphrasing), it is rather humorous for you to bring a major ally (NpO) to defend you, isn't it?
We salute their entrance, though, and hope they will properly declare war on us since they have entered the fray.