[Imperial Decree - DoW]

Years of Crymson's postings.  That's enough for me.

If wars were fueled by bad posting, MCXA would be PZIed.

[Upper Tier Tracking Thread]

Four of the top five on the TOP AA in war mode have bought back significant amounts of infra, including all three of theirs above 100K NS.  I'm not sure if Bauhaus has.  Meanwhile, we buy back just enough to hit them and drag them back down. 

You're running out of nations able to do that, though.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

When most your membership shows up in an OWF thread and complains, odds are you as an alliance are whining.  But hey, maybe they all showed up to say "bring it!" and got too emotional.   <_<

 

The offer of butt ointment made previously stands.

 

I also love how you crawled into the head of everyone around the peace talks table and figured out the entirety of their motivations and thought processes.  If you are indeed such a mind reader, then how the hell did you allow yourself to end up in this position in the first place?

 

Enjoy your wars.  You'll be fighting them a very long time unless you wise up.

Except that "most of our membership" (what, six or seven guys?) showed up here to point out:

1)That Pacifica has an inferiority complex regarding Paradoxia. (I don't share the thought)

2)That your coalition has to be lamentable to require reinforcements at this juncture.

3)That your coalition members visibly don't trust each other.

4)That it wasn't our fault if nobody from your side had thought about inviting you to peace talks.

 

And since the last three points are completly correct, some of you then proceeded to say: "haha, you're whining" instead of addressing or acknowledging them. Which is a fantastic way of dodging debates. 

 

For example, you quote my post, yet attack none of its content except to say that "we're whining" and would require some anal ointment. You might want to adapt your posting, though. Replying to timetables of events by "ahaha, you're whining" doesn't exactly reflect well on your mental capacities.

 

@Mayzie: Would losing twice as much NS as we did equates to hurting? It's not like our nations out of PM are simply sitting ducks getting killed.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

He's saying he destroyed more of your tech than you did his, not that he did more NS damage.

 

Not that either matters, I only replied because I find it annoying constantly seeing all this "I'm better than you" bollocks.

 

I'm reading a lot here about us apparently "hurting", where's this coming from?  Who exactly is hurting so bad they can't fight anymore?  Honestly, a lot of us have been able to sit in war mode collecting taxes & re-stocking nukes, then go back to war & maybe eat a nuke every couple of days, sometimes not at all.

I'm pretty sure it's coming from the fact that you had to ask Pacifica to help reinforce you in the lower to middle tier, as evidenced by comments made by Brehon, Ted (from TORN) or Otter from Argent, among others. Also, logs between Brehon and Ted.

 

What was the major issue at the founding of PF and nearly did not see it come about? what was the main and often constant issue within PF?

 

The whole point of PF was to change course and make it ours, not enable TOP's allies to think of us as a extension of you.

 

But you were happy with that thought, and that was the killing blow for PF.

The main issue within PF was mostly our relations with Umbrella who were often very tense, thus creating a very bad position for Argent. You perhaps want to go back to the days of the Revenge War, where Janax and I went at it for a few weeks. 

 

If the whole point was to change course, why did Argent stay allied to Umbrella for so long? Why did you guys keep asking us to mend relations with Umbrella and wish us to go back to good relations with them?

 

You know, that game of "you prioritized your allies over the bloc" goes both ways. In the end, you wanted us to choose between DR and a moralistic approach and our friends in Doomhouse, some of those very friends you had insisted we make. 

 

We're not the ones who got into the relationship by trying to change everybody else. We came with our set of treaties and we told you from the start what to expect. We took some of the criticism and worked on what could be worked on. You wanted us to go where we didn't want to go and then blamed it for the collapse of the bloc: we have large backs and we don't mind admitting some mistakes but the collapse of PF wasn't our fault. It had a lot more to do with changes in the government of Argent (and the abrupt changes it brought to its FA --> signing treaties without telling OTPs, abandoning Umbrella, etc.) , the disbanding of OMFG and BN and the inactivity in Grämlins.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

Maybe something with claiming holding PF above any other treaty when really you were not. Now you can stand there and claim anything in the sky but you and me both know which side you were backing and which side you were trying to save face with.  

We founded PF with a given set of treaties. During the existence of PF, we were often told that we needed to work hard on mending relations with Umbrella. Which we did. Our other treaties never changed.

Tell me, again, who changed course?

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

The bolded part is most likely why talks of peace on your front arent getting any traction. You can try and 'Dis' us by not trying to include us(you know the people you actually DoW'd) in peace talks, which is just petty, so why would you expect anything less then a petty answer in return? Hell if we were to have been invited to the peace talks then maybe TOP would be at peace today. We trust our allies to do whats best for themselves and us as allies but to just let the insult slide aint gonna happen. Umbrella tried to have that happen before the start of this war and see where its now gotten you, them, us etc. Your 'side' is getting dogpiled exactly because of that kind of arrogant and dismissive behavior, but you obviously have not learned a thing as you go and start peace talks without the main alliance you DoWd being involved for w/e petty BS you have crawling around in your heads(I wouldve said brains but you seem to lack any semblance of human thought by thinking you can flip the bird to us and thinking it was kosher. Especially when that is exactly what started this whole war in the first place, arrogance and thoughts of impunity to your actions).

 

When you really want to talk peace, id advise letting all involved parties get an invite to the talks and not just expect 'things' to be passed along to be rubber stamped OK. Just a little FYI regarding something you obviously are having lots of trouble with, its called courtesy. Try it out sometime and maybe you will find it will get you much farther then arrogance and condescension.

For all the "TOP is whining" you precious gentlemen are spewing, you haven't heard a single Paradoxian complain that the NPO is hitting us.

 

On the other hand, lo and behold, AI gets forgotten by its own allies and suddenly, TOP is the supreme evil of all mankind. Heck, you went as far as to say BiPolar was a justified move. 

 

Yet, for all your nonsensical ramblings about how evil we are, you can't pin a single crime against us. We've tried to get answers from others too. Hey Argent, what's up with you holding a grudge? A grudge over what? And TORN, wanting to see us under a jackboot? When did we last talk? BiPolar?

 

Take Sigrun here. She goes from thread to thread attacking us. Our alleged crime against her? That we would have banned her from our boards in 2008. 

 

I understand you guys need villains to justify your pathetic attempts at moral posturing but you will have to try harder. At least, be creative. Invent some stuff. Don't just start ranting about how "you see our true face" and "how deserved the beatdown you took was" when you can't even tell why it was.

 

The facts remain:

1)Some of your coalition partners approached us to discuss peace.

2)Your coalition partners made us an offer. Did they consult you? It's not up to us to make sure you're included, baby cake. If your allies want to discuss peace without your noble oversight, there might be a reason.

3)We refused said offer.

 

We then talked the next day. The discussions began as preliminary talks. More people got involved. At some point, both sides felt good to include "everyone". We asked your coalition partners to contact their allies. They said they were doing it. They then told us two or three were missing but that we could proceed.

 

4)We made a counter-offer.

5)Your coalition partners talked among themselves to see if they were willing to consider it.

6)They rejected it.

 

Things got downhill from that point on as TORN's representant decided it was smart to make joke counter-offers and then threaten us. Peace talks were aborted. TORN then contacted Pacifica for help. We totally understand why Pacifica DoWed on us, as we said many times, we do not fault them. There is bad blood between us, though, so I don't expect everybody to stay entirely civil.

 

If you think we somehow manipulated ten of your allies into forgetting that you exist, you very likely should take a step back and reevaluate what you are saying: that means either ten of your allies are massively incompetent OR Paradoxians have supernatural powers.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

If you want to start up those peace talks again you must talk with coalition leader UE. 

Fine. We'll send Saber and Buller to represent TOP in those fine talks.

 

@Schatt: Feel free to DoW. You always write nice DoWs and I'm sure they could use the help.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

Well, ridiculing viable war tactics, like bringing in an extra alliance to relieve pressure on staggers, seems to be exactly what TOP is doing.

 

 

And pardon us for having a larger coalition to work with and to bring to bear on our enemies.  We forgot how it's advantageous in war to have the smaller side. 

Who's the "we"? Argent? You've been on the winning side of coalitions your entire existence, save for BiPolar. Don't throw us the line that you've been a victim all your life, please. When the going was good, at the height of Doomhouse's presumed crimes, you were a firm ally of Umbrella, TOP and IRON. Your recent moralist linings have more to do with opportunism and many changes in your government line-up rather than a time honored resistance against the oppressive powers that be. Save that spiel for those on your side.

 

 

Letum, amusing set of arguments. We're not "nitpicking", though. If you invade a country and you bring a coalition with you, it's dedicated manpower you think you'll be needing. If later on you need to bring more people, it's because you visibly need reinforcements. If you didn't, you wouldn't call anybody. It's as simple as that. And if you need reinforcements, it's because we are indeed putting the hurt. Arguing against reality strikes me as rather weird. You're not calling in more soldiers just to have them parade around. 

 

The political part of your involvement has already been cleared by your own Emperor in the previous pages. We are sneaky people, we cannot be trusted not to outsmart your current coalition and, as such, there needs to be Pacifican oversight at the peace table. We're cool with that.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

I don't think I've ever seen so much talk about peace in a DoW before.

Pacifica is bringing peace and prosperity to Paradoxia.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

Can't we for once have a war where the losing side does not keep portraying the calling in of additional, disproportionate force a sign of incompetence and lack of political independence, and where the winning side does not keep portraying the usage of peacemode as a sign of cowardice and lack of backbone.

Considering how many times most of us have been on both sides of these arguments you'd think we'd be getting some kind of cognitive dissonance by now.

If you had entered at first on us, I'd have said: "hey, they're just trying to make sure they have surpluses of manpower to bring us down properly". Right now, it's called a reinforcement. It says that we're hurting your allies. Which, in a 12 vs 1 scenario where they outnumber us seven to one in the middle to lower tier, shouldn't happen.

 

But like we said, it's either that or you don't trust them to make the proper political decisions. As evidenced by the last pages, it's a mix of both. I wouldn't say it's a return to the vassalization of old but some people are definitely now under the tutelage of Pacifica. 

 

We hold no ill will towards Pacifica. You are doing what you must with the poor set of cards you were dealt.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

 Message: A peace offer has been submitted by Simon De Montfort for the following reason: Cessation of Hostilities

Accept it. It's a genuine offer. Hey, it worked with Lum.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

I trust those fighting TOP, I don't trust TOP. Very very important clarification there.

The implication being we are smart enough to do some sneak move that would go undetected by your allies but not by you.

 

Interesting.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

Yeah. And what we're saying is that the reason why AI wasn't there isn't us. We asked our opponents to contact everybody on their side of the fence to make sure all alliances had at least one spokeperson in the talks. We were told "two or three AAs couldn't make it". If AI was never contacted, the blame lays entirely at the feet of your allies.

 

As AI wasn't actively involved in the war and we were offering something fair, we esteemed that they either trusted their allies enough or that the information would be relayed to them. Instead, we were met with a rebuttal and joke counter-offers.

 

You wanted in those talks? Again, should have told us or, better yet, asked your allies. Since, y'know, this was a counter-offer to the initial approach that was made by some of your allies.

 

Edit: We will see your alliance burn for that incredibly arrogant response, Auctor. Salt, earth, etc.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

Says the guy offering peace to his enemies.  Spend too much of your warchest on infra? 

Now, now, Otter. Don't lie in public, it's not nice. Some of your coalition members sought us for a peace deal first. We agreed to talks. Not the other way around.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

Wanting to make sure there was someone there to represent Ai considering you DoW'd on them... OMG how dare I. I wanted to make sure Coalition leadership was there... OMG how dare I.

Keep buying into your propaganda /boggle.

What prevented you from that?

 

As far as I know, your allies didn't bother calling you or AI. We never objected to anything. Why they didn't is probably something you should figure out among yourselves.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

So, let me get this straight. 

 

Ted went to these peace talks and acted like TORN were destroying us and would put its jackboot on our neck. He threw "joke" counter-offers, meant to be offensive, further torpedoing any negotiations.

 

And then...

 

He asked Pacifica for help?

 

Golden.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

You're like this little kid..

 

 

That's amazing. 

Give me gifs all you want, Bcortell. The truth of the matter is that one is these is true:

 

1)You're hurting and had to call in help;

2)Pacifica doesn't trust your front to hold negotiations and wants a seat at the table.

 

Pick your poison.

 

@Hart: Take a look at the number of nations you've lost in the same category. Your entire front has one nation left above 90k NS that isn't in permanent Peace Mode. While no alliance on your side has lost as much as TOP in terms of pure NS, one must also think that we're the largest alliance engaged on our side. We also engaged AI heavily in the first wave, likely causing heavy damage there.

 

If you take all of the AAs, our front has lost 6.8m NS. Yours is down 13m (not counting AI) and it's pretty concentrated in five AAs. We're holding just fine.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

@Brehon: For AI's absence, you might have to question your own allies as to why they didn't see fit to invite them.

 

@hartfw: One doesn't exclude the other. You're hurting. Hell, even your allies are admitting as much and Pacifica's presence is further proof that you needed help. It doesn't mean you're not also holding a grudge, which we clearly saw yesterday. We especially liked TORN's antics.

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

You speak out both sides of your mouth, you must be a member of TOP? Pacifica commited crimes back in the day - and have paid for them. TOP has just as much to be ashamed of from that era as Pacifica - and TOP has switched sides whenever necessary to avoid paying a flat dime for your crimes. You have no room to diss Pacifica.

 

 

Who said anyone needed their help? They wanted in on the fun, and I reckon they deserve a few easy slots, they have been doing a lot in other areas.

What are you talking about? Where did you see me talk about any crime? Do you even read posts or do you just prepare replies and throw them at will, without any thought as to what was written before?

 

 

Summary for all:  TOP thought they could get away with peace with no re-entry on both sides and no acknowledgement of defeat.  We all said that this was completely unacceptable and, frankly, ridiculous.  Meanwhile, our front could use a bit of help in the lower middle tiers where we've knocked a large number of TOPers, so we brought in an alliance that has a lot of nations in that range to help pick off a few staggers to relieve a bit of pressure.

Summary for all: TOP was approached by members of your coalition with a peace offer. Other members didn't take so kindly that they were left out. Meanwhile, Argent, Sengoku and TORN hold a grudge against Paradoxia without explicitly saying so. We gave you a counter-offer encompassing all of your coalition, you rejected it. You then sent us a bravado-filled counter-offer. As we can clearly see today, you were in no position to even imagine making demands, seeing that you need the help of Pacifica.

Pacifica got in this war to have a seat in negotiations because it doesn't trust your bunch to stay the course AND because we're obviously outdamaging you by a lot. To the point where you consider needing help in the middle to low tier, where you have us outnumbered seven to one.
 

[Imperial Decree - DoW]

In light of recent events, this is highly ironic.

 

To the coalition we are facing: I'd like to say that I'm happy to see your little bravado of yesterday was all for naught and that you had to call Pacifica - of all possible alliances - to help you in your crusade against our villainous alliances. I don't think it will have the effect you so desire but it is for sure an enjoyable spectacle.

 

To Pacifica: although my colleagues may hold a different opinion, I don't fault you for doing what's necessary to keep your coalition from falling apart. Some alliances, especially Argent, Sengoku and TORN, were in much needed support.

 

I salute you and hope to meet some of you on the battlefield,

 

As an added note, I'd like to point out that your coalition is the one who approached us with a peace offer in the first place. We responded with a counter-offer that they rejected. 

[An AI Announcement: Peace for our time]

Enjoy the retirement, Tronix. 

 

I like seeing Pansy and Timberland in govt. 

[Grand Lodge Election: Fun for all Masons]

I echo the words of my Liege, King Feanor.

[Lower Tier thread]

Ah, yes, buying tech through the game is stupid. 

 

However, Bodvar from TOP just bought 5K tech, from 8K to 13K.  He had a large warchest.  I look forward to the new information.

The tech costs 4.6bn.

 

I can give you the rundown. It cut the warchest in half, give or take some money. Money well spent, that jump should have been done in peacetime.

[Imperial Decree - New Polar Order]

People declaring wars officially.

 

Nice artwork, by the way.

[Umbrella-AI Propaganda Thread]

image upload

Poor TIO.