Cortath
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Posts posted by Cortath
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[quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1349975749' post='3040037']
Then stop broadcasting it to our faces for a month. Point being, if you and Sparta wanted to have a little skirmish, then by all means have your fun. But don't spend a month propagandizing some grand revolution and 'bringing Order to Chaos' simply to fall flat on that notion. Cause guess what, while you two are having fun flinging sand at each other like little school girls, the rest of the world continues to revolve as it did and you have ultimately changed nothing. You only brought this criticism amongst yourselves by showboating about while having absolutely zero substance to back it up.
[/quote]
Again, you fail to read what the Emperor said. Part of the purpose of this [i]was[/i] to broadcast it for a month, and then observe many things, such as who whines about it the most. *chuckles heartily* -
[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1349971100' post='3040010']
Even if you had randomly stomped around, you'd have stood a better chance of hitting a wortwhile target that would actually benefit your strategic position and maybe change the world. As it is, you're eroding your military capabilities just for some practice against an opponent with whom you have no apparent grievance. It is the very chaos - and therefore risk - involved in war which provides the "fire" to create these heroes you seek, not some neutered, pro-forma jousting.
If you think this will make your alliance stronger, by all means, have at it. But I'm surprised that you're surpised people are annoyed when the set-up for this was so clearly misleading. War is not a game; a game is not war. Your "war" is a lie. There is only peace.
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There are many flaws in your arguments, but I'll take the time to point out two fatal ones.
Firstly: you speaks of only the costs and not the benefits of war. Yes, we erode our military capability somewhat by engaging in this limited practice conflict, but we gain something. If people who this is some errant exercise or whim of the Emperor sat back and thought for a minute, they would ask themselves, "What does Pacifica gain from this?" And if you can answer that question for yourself, perhaps you'll gain something from it.
Secondly: you and many others seem to believe that we are, indeed, "surprised" that some people are displeased with this. Trust me when I say that no one is surprised. We look on with great interest at people's reactions to all of this. Although life in a state of nature between nations may be nasty, brutish and short, as was so artfully put so long ago, war between alliances, is nastier, more brutish, and far longer. Pacifica endeavors to take the long view of war, and exercise, though not a far, helps in that. -
[quote name='Qazzian' timestamp='1349963320' post='3039960']
I'm loving this, all the people crying that this is boring. Did you *really* think that we'd just obliterate all the FA work that was done and start randomly stomping around? I know some of you hoped we would to give you a reason for another shot, but seriously, did you expect that to happen?
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It is universally a sign of poor judgment when you think others are so stupid. Banking on others' stupidity never made for a good war or a good peace. -
[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1349953105' post='3039931']
I learned that your babbling about francoism is pretty gash. Hey ho though.
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*chuckles heartily*
While it's not necessarily foolish to belittle someone's belief, it is quite another matter not to seek understanding. -
[quote name='Nintenderek' timestamp='1349933526' post='3039848']
Also, I'm highly impressed at the OPsec with this. Nobody jumped the gun. Nobody leaked. Impressive, especially considering both opposing alliances knew about this beforehand.
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[quote name='King Wally' timestamp='1349935867' post='3039876']
Seriously best OPSEC I've seen in a long time. Particularly as you let the cat out of the bag yourselves very very little real info ever got out. Well done.
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Nice to see at least two people in this thread have a modicum of intelligence.
***
Francoism demands self-evaluation; it demands a critical look at the institutions that sustain us. There is no way to know if institutions are the value-giving things that they once were unless they are put under the conditions that makes them relevant and useful. Just as important as the military institutions are the political institutions that sustain them. The past thirty days were very interesting to watch. Pacifica learned a lot about herself.
What did you learn? -
[quote name='Princess Doomee' timestamp='1349456090' post='3037627']
My dearest Brehon, I have given your Francoist beliefs a great deal of thought and consideration over the years. I have decided to stick with our Tantric followings as they are far more satisfying in the end.
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You clearly haven't read [i]all[/i] of the Francoist Essays. No need goes unsatisfied. -
[quote name='Systemfailure' timestamp='1349337151' post='3037274']
3 days to go before anything even happens and im already bored of this
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Did your mother never teach you that good things are worth waiting for? Such a pity.
Francoism demands self-reflection. If you looked into yourself, would you find your impatience a trait that gives you utility? -
[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1349296145' post='3037100']
What I'm trying to say is these months have been rough without you, Cortath. I yearned for you. Welcome back to activity, we've been expecting you.
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It is good to be expected. You expected great things, and they have come! -
[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1349295326' post='3037094']
I for one welcome our reanimated Pacifican overlord.
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I was never "unanimated!" -
[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1349242426' post='3036950']
Cortath, when did you come back to life?
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[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1349260804' post='3036986']
Who let Cortath out of the Freezer?
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I wouldn't miss this for anything. *chuckles* -
[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1349236120' post='3036910']
Francoism always was and always will be just a excuse to NPO justify its actions, Pacifica will adapt the concept to match with whatever objective they want to achieve at the moment.
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Your understanding of Francoism is clearly clouded by a malignant cynicism, comrade. -
[quote name='BKlein' timestamp='1349219355' post='3036801']
Forgive me, perhaps I expected that the ideology might have undergone some revision/divergence (intentional or not) over the years since that work was produced.[/quote]
That's quite alright. Francoism is an utilitarian ideology that only recognizes value in efficacy. When the material conditions of our world change, those institutions that no longer serve our purposes must be discarded and new institutions, better suited to challenges of modernity, must be constructed in their place. It is not incorrect or wrong to re-examine our values and ideologies to ensure that they still serve the purposes and goals against which they were originally measured.
[quote]You're quite correct: the legitimacy of war is not refuted in TMW. I was just curious as to how broadly the Order is willing to interpret the concept of "security." I guess time shall show us shortly.
In any case, your answer clarified a few other questions that I had, so thank you for your time. I'll quit bugging y'alls now.[/quote]
Security, is of course, an idea, and there is no universally agreed upon measuring stick. Circumstances for all alliances are different. Some are weak; others strong. Some are resolute; others timid. Each alliance's individual material conditions will dictate how it views its security, what strategies it will use to achieve security, and what tactics are appropriate to achieve such a strategy. The key to understanding this world is to be able to understand those three things and upon placing a rational actor at its center, evaluate the choices before you. -
[quote name='sounion' timestamp='1349215550' post='3036774']
so dramatic. why not tell us now?
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That wouldn't be much sport, now would it? -
[quote name='mmansfield68' timestamp='1349063379' post='3036170']
I agree with the former, but with regard to the latter, I should like to clarify a grilling before the eating.
That [i]WOULD[/i] be garish!
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I prefer my babies a la crue.
[quote name='BKlein' timestamp='1349207351' post='3036686']
How does a Francoist reconcile conflict to the end of "bringing order to chaos" if said conflict gives rise to precisely the antithesis of security from "war and fear" he so adamantly espouses? Or is it that the chaos of consolidation (i.e. bringing order) is for the greater good and thus deemed an acceptable - necessary even - form of chaos?
I stumbled across Vladimir's essay, [i]The Morality of War[/i], and was hoping that it would answer this question. I'd love to hear a "modern" Francoist's answer.
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You can find many "modern" Francoists essays here: [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Francoist_Papers"]http://cybernations....rancoist_Papers[/url] in the Francoist papers. In particular, [i]A Primer on Francoism[/i] was written by an outstandingly good looking man.
To answer your question more fully really doesn't require a "modern" answer, but something that's been articulated before. The world in a state of nature is a chaotic one. A nation born on this world lives without security and without real freedom. For while they are unencumbered by another sovereign, their freedom is restricted by the politics of our barbarous world. A young nation adrift in the sea of some new sphere will immediately fall prey to tech raiders, and be unable to grow their action, or realistically act with the full freedom of actions given them at creation.
Nations such as these are forced to give up their sovereignty to a greater power, who offers them freedom of action in exchange for the unification of nations' sovereignty in the person of an autocrat, an Emperor. Now the word "autocrat" speaks profoundly to the form of government we have. The etymology of the word means "self-ruler." While the solitary nation is a self-ruler, its ability to act as it would will is constrained by our chaotic world. It is a self-ruler in name only; a farce perpetuated by the cruel world into which we are born. However, the Francoist Emperor, united in his person the sovereignty of all nations of Pacifica, is truly an autocrat, a self-ruler as the world means. The Emperor, can protect those who have unified their sovereignty in him, and in thus giving up a part of their sovereignty, they gain true freedom.
That, is of course, only one side of the coin of Francoism, but it's not one you've asked a question about, so I will refrain from speaking of the unification of wisdom in an Emperor. I have written about that topic before.
How does one reconcile conflict? I don't quite know where one finds in Vladimir's fine work, [i]The Morality of War[/i], any sort of refutation of using war as a tool for the primary moral (and existential) duty of alliances: to protect collective security. Not all alliances functions as mine does: others attempt to achieve collective security through less effective forms of government, but ultimately, all alliances maintain that same moral imperative. War is neither moral nor immoral as such: it advances the security interests of an alliance, or it does not. While one might think that "bringing Order to Chaos" is an abstraction, it is not. One might make the calculation that engaging in such a struggle in the short-term far more greatly benefits an alliance's security in the long-term than lying back and waiting what the morrow will bring. Bringing Order to Chaos, is also, of course, the fundamental tenet of Francoism as I articulated above: the unification of sovereignty of disparate and separate nations into a single sovereign removes them from the state of chaos of nature and gives them true freedom of action. -
[quote name='Rokula' timestamp='1348968450' post='3035784']
A Little birdie told me this war is not going to be fought with soldiers, tanks and nukes, but with hugs, cookies, beer and back rubs.
If so declare on me please
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I hope you shot that bird. And threw its bloody scrap to som mangy beast.
Wars are not fought with hugs, cookies, or back rubs. There is beer, however. Oh, there is always beer. -
[quote name='Princess Doomee' timestamp='1348955842' post='3035747']
Seek me out when you have resurrected The Vox Populi.
AHA and now we see the return of Cortath. Another piece of the puzzle falls into place, I missed you [img]http://www.bulkcandystore.com/Assets/images/products/chuckles2.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
*chuckles heartily*
They don't let me out much!
Naw, I'm just mostly retired. But how could I resist a thread like this! Never! -
[quote name='BKlein' timestamp='1348946884' post='3035714']
I could never deny that Bob has seen its fair share of onslaught. 'Twas merely an observation that this calibre of announcement seems, to me at least, to convey a sense of grandeur - a sense that the NPOs repertoire of garish sigs will finally actually mean something. I may not agree with the policy of the matter, but by Admin it'll be interesting to watch [take part in (?)].
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Our sigs are not garish! Perish the thought!
Every sig is finely crafted to the sound of babies being eaten. -
[quote name='BKlein' timestamp='1348932242' post='3035636']
I think that this may have been a bit more effective had Brehon made the OP and left the substance-less banter to others.
Forgive me, Honorable Emperor, but statements such as these, "So much to learn about me," and, "But that is fine you get to see soon enough these weren't just words," might have been better left unsaid. You and your alliance are - at least implicitly - promising an onslaught such as has been hitherto unseen on Bob. To that end, you must understand that some of the community will be skeptical regardless of what you say. You [the NPO] and your allies presumably have the force to back up this announcement, otherwise you would not have made it: don't cheapen that force with [i]wait and see[/i] responses.
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You should get out and see more of the world! There's been quite a bit of onslaught hitherto seen in these parts. -
Hail the New Pacific Order!
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There wasn't an option for "baby meat." That disappoints me.
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Too bad I got in on this once my round was over at MK.
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Haters gunna hate.
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Grenval is a good guy.
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[quote name='Topside the Hun' timestamp='1327161498' post='2904191']
Wars are won when you have lesened your opponents will to fight and they accept your will. The battlefield means nothing, you have to conquer your oppoents mind.
Good luck with that! lol
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In order to win, I have to make my opponents "accept my will?" What kind of Kantian claptrap is that? I need only crush them, drive them from me, and hear the lamentations of their women to know that I have won.
Imperial Decree
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1349977746' post='3040059']
Actually, it's more like you holding a party, but all the whiny kids who find out they weren't invited decide that it was never cool anyway and everyone who takes part in it must suck. Classic form of cognitive dissonance.
I don't think you get it, but the whole point of this war *was* to entertain NPO and Sparta. If you would take the time to think about it, you would realize the significance of having a way to be energetic and have fun, without the massive penalties associated with a world-war-curbstomp.
NPO is providing an alternative to the narrow-minded view of this world, where "fun" means 0.7% of players get to play chessmasters in the backroom whilst everyone else gets to shout at each other in the OWF and wait for a war once a year.
And if anyone doesn't like it? With all due respect, that's just too bad. Perhaps they should stop hoping for a white knight to take out their enemies and just grow a big enough pair to do it themselves.
[/quote]
As always, Comrade Letum provides an excellent rejoinder.