maskofblue

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1296708550' post='2617063'] So you're telling me that by focusing on KoH, you'll damage NpO? Great tactic Celestial Being would be better served attacking NpO wouldn't they? Otherwise it comes across as either you guys being desperate or CB jumping on the bandwagon. Which is it? [/quote] Why would it? Regardless of who declares where, the same number of nations will be diverted either way. This allows us to refocus on Polar without more VE assistance and leaves a reliable reserve of firepower outside of the present Polar front.

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1296707780' post='2617027'] So protectorates have oA clauses these days? Mistfit Nations must be getting desperate if they need [i]another[/i] alliance to attack KoH though. Can you say [i]desperate[/i]? [/quote] Desperate? No, we just believe in sharing our playthings with friends. The purpose of war is to achieve strategic objectives beneficial to us, there is no advantage to be had in limiting the amount of force brought to the table You show up to play with everything you've got or there is no point in showing up at all.

haha nice, about time you came out to play

[quote name='Jake Liebenow' timestamp='1296456324' post='2612598'] You are right, and I can say absolutely nothing, so I will part with this: I thoroughly apologize for any permanent damage I've caused you. Your tears were delicious though, do not fret. [/quote] I'm in Misfit Nations, not GOONS, but your "strategic withdrawal" from the topics under discussion and this conversation is noted.

[quote name='Jake Liebenow' timestamp='1296455906' post='2612581'] "To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position." Yeah, I'm pretty sure I used that right. Whatever, though. Our allies asked us to stay out. We complied. And frankly, we're giving a better showing than most on the other side. [/quote] If they asked you to stay out, they were, to quote myself, "making requests detrimental to their own objectives and the objectives of their faction." This is not a straw man. [QUOTE]You're still wrong, go suck on Zhad's teet. [/QUOTE] Oh, and Heft; this is what bitter looks like.

[quote name='Jake Liebenow' timestamp='1296455527' post='2612562'] Because we totally went in a week late. And this is totally detrimental to our objectives. Careful now, straw men are flammable [/quote] Yes, the most useful time to hit GOONS would have been when everyone else did, about a week ago. Yes, coming in at this stage where you did was detrimental to the survival of your side of the war when compared to having entered sooner. Please look up "straw men" before continuing because you are using it wrong.

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1296454886' post='2612542'] I am glad to know you consider honoring the request of an ally a bad trait. [/quote] Not at all, just honoring it a week late and/or making requests detrimental to their own objectives and the objectives of their faction. [QUOTE]Did you not read the OP? You're going to make me sadface.[/QUOTE] Sure I did, you redefined victory so that it could be compatible with a state of affairs in which you and your allies are molten slag. I hate to break it to you but Vladimir did it first and did it better after the first Great War.

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1296454358' post='2612529'] No, I'm pretty sure this is "bitterness." And the history of this world still revolves around the Orders, as demonstrated by this very war. Just because you've been washed away doesn't mean the rest of us have. The Orders have always directed the course of events one way or another, and will continue to do so. A few impertinent upstarts are not going to change that, certainly not for very long. I'm sorry that your dreams of seeing the Moldavi legacy tarnished will not be realized. [/quote] The Orders, yes, but not the NSO which is more a failed lab experiment than an Order anyway. Your claim to fame is getting your alliance rolled over 6 million and being a week late defending your allies. If that's Moldavi's legacy my "dream" came true quite some time ago.

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1296453649' post='2612486'] You sound really bitter. [/quote] No, if I were bitter I would have used at least three more paragraphs of colorful analogies and brilliant cutting remarks to instill even more self loathing than you are already experiencing from not being able to do anything to help your friends and the tide of history washing you away.

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1296452957' post='2612405'] So, I'll take that as a yes. [/quote] If your battlefield skills are of the same level as your planning skills I suspect how you take it won't be left up to you.

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1296452239' post='2612310'] So, I'm guessing you and Zhadumb still hate Ivan and thus you are taking it out on us? [/quote] Hate? I'd be hard pressed to think of anyone I pity more. He was once considered the greatest leader in the game, a reputation destroyed when he founded your alliance. He was once capable of doing almost anything, now all he is left with are NPO, NpO, and NSO which have demonstrated little more than impotence going on two years now. I would be hard pressed to think of anyone who still plays who has been so thoroughly embarrassed (by such showings as this one) and have been so completely disgraced. Frankly, though, no, this isn't even about that. This is simply remarkably poor planning from an alliance that so constantly and shamelessly self promotes and from personalities who used to be renowned for their skill and cunning. So, let me ask you, was it that appearances can be deceiving and you were never really that good or did you simply get so rusty on your carefully crafted pedestals you forgot how to fight?

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1296451193' post='2612185'] Perhaps, you know, we respect what our allies ask us to do. NOVEL CONCEPT! [/quote] That's almost worse, really. I mean it is one thing to have lost the keys to your bomber in the sofa but you are telling me this was on purpose? I appreciate charity as much as the next guy but is it really wise to leave your war planning for such a crucial conflict in the hands of The Flying Tigers?

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1296450839' post='2612165'] Let me get this straight. You want us to tell you we are declaring war tonight? [/quote] No, just better excuses why you didn't a week ago. Your dog ate your launch codes or your war orders got lost in the mail, something, anything to justify why you sat on your hands this long while your allies burned.

Let me get this straight, earlier today you were telling me about how you were dragging your feet on entering this because, and I quote, "Co-ordination has not brought a front logical to put us on." Now, a mere few hours later, you decide to hop aboard not merely one of the most overcrowded fronts of this war but one that opened almost a week ago? So much for "tactics" and "discipline".

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1296421235' post='2611455'] Far be it from us to try and educate you on tactic and discipline. It is indeed our discipline that has kept us out thus far, at the request of our allies thus far. Co-ordination has not brought a front logical to put us on. Our time will come. We all have a role to play. [/quote] I suspect most of the education you provide would be of the "learning from the mistakes of others" variety. Regardless, if your allies want you to sit on the sidelines while they burn, you're certainly more than welcome to do so.

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1296413743' post='2611311'] Unlike your 'protectorates', our lower gov members know when not to speak out for the alliance. We don't lack in discipline. [/quote] Indeed. Even now as your allies undergo trial by fire, their sky lighting up as with a thousand suns as missile upon missile rains down upon their heads, the strength of their nations rapidly edging towards nothingness, they look upon you, their treaty partner, friend, ally even now remaining unmoved and unengaged and say to themselves, "welp, I am sure glad NSO is so disciplined."

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1296386203' post='2611008'] I don't see the problem here to be honest. Whilst obviously the Misfit Nations couldn't uphold their agreement, VE are hardly interfering anyway. [/quote] Once again, for the reading impaired, there was no agreement. On post 139 a member of the KoH government even admitted there was no agreement. [quote]Im one of those leaders, and i do my homework. im not justifying anything. i was upset to hear what we thought was a breaking of the 1 on 1 agreement, now i'm ok with it once i realized there never really was one. hey, miscommunications and mistakes are a pervading part of political life, and I'm always willing to be understanding about that.[/quote] If even some of the KoH government is being reasonable enough to admit the belief there was any kind of agreement was the result of a mistake and a miscommunication, why is it alliances like GATO and UPN cannot figure out the obvious?

[quote name='lordliam' timestamp='1296340960' post='2610011'] Yes. VE isn't in the wrong here. Misfit Nations were the only ones who violated their agreement with KoH not to bring in protectorates. MN, you can't hide behind the "that gov. guy who agreed to it didn't have any power to do so" argument. All government members must have clearly stated responsibilities and restrictions. You might not think it is fair, but it is. [/quote] They do. This particular member overstepped theirs and KoH was informed very quickly that this was the case. They then chose to come here and lie about there ever being an agreement to begin with. It would be like if we went to Chris Kaos and convinced him to have GATO declare war on itself, which honestly wouldn't be the dumbest thing you guys ever did. Would GATO then be in the wrong for pointing out, days in advance, that GATO leadership does not work that way and that if some kind of agreement were to be reached with GATO it must go through the proper channels? If so, I think I am going to try it because judging by many of the comments surrounding this war coming out of GATO, I'm confident I can find someone in your government I can get to go along with it. [QUOTE] And MoB -- you left Pacifica all those years ago to escape this kind of behaviour - now your firmly attaching to Viridia like this?? The bastion of hypocrisy in this world. I'd put more trust in the word Moo of 4 years ago than I would in the Impero of today.[/QUOTE] As I recall I left over behaviors like betraying and libeling their members, engaging in cronyism, and the mentality that the NPO leadership gets to control who you can be friends with; engaging in aggressive rhetoric against alliances that attack you was never one of my reasons.

[quote name='Britishdude' timestamp='1296276599' post='2608634'] You know exactly what Erik is talking about. Or perhaps you want to take things out of context as you've accused us of? [/quote] In that case, let's add in reading comprehension too because the original statement: [QUOTE]Hyrule was given two days notice that VE would put Hyrulean nations in their target lists for the next rotation if peace was not agreed upon.[/QUOTE] as it was the two day time frame before entering that erikjsch balked at. Notice how what he replied to was a statement about when KoH would be targeted.

[quote name='erikjsch' timestamp='1296276197' post='2608600'] Lawl! Two days? We were given maybe 2 hours to decide this. Impero demanded that Britishdude stayed awake until we decided and told him before the following day, if we did not reply to him or surrender to you(Misfit Nations) then they would attack right away. I'd like to know where you pulled the two days out from. [/quote] The talks were on Tuesday night, VE entered Thursday night. One day, two days. Nice to see we can add math to the growing list of deficiencies your alliance has demonstrated in this thread.

[quote name='Strykewolf' timestamp='1296276030' post='2608588'] And you are missing the point I was trying to make about either having too large a gov, or one not well informed on protocol. Mistakes happen. The low level gov member should be corrected. That said, the opponent was under the impression that the decision stood. How do you fix that? Moderate your response, throw the gov member under the bus, or escalate the situation? [/quote] How about advise them several days in advance of further action their "impression" was in error and gave the a way out of the war that would cost them nothing?

[quote name='Strykewolf' timestamp='1296275535' post='2608547'] Honestly? No. Military based alliance. Chain of command allows myself, or , my XO to make the call. That's it. We're small, and do not mind that. If I am unavailable, the XO is authorized to make the call and I will back it 100% publically. I may correct his misstep (if any) in private so it does not happen again, but...publically? No. The decision would stand. There are a few standing orders, and policies. Those are well known within the alliance and will be acted upon by any member without reproach. Anything beyond that? That's mine, and the XOs job. [/quote] Well, mapping that to Misfits, Frodark and I would take your position, Callebaut would map to your XO. If someone lower in your alliance had made an alliance decision without consulting you, one you felt was detrimental to your alliance, you are honestly going to say you would run with it? We gave KoH several days notice that Sho spoke out of turn, we further agreed to white peace with them, however, they backed out on it when we advised them that us declaring a mutual ceasefire would not alter our stance in the larger war. This thread is just a dishonest attempt to spin up some PR points before their inevitable disbandment and being forgotten.

[quote name='Strykewolf' timestamp='1296274663' post='2608521'] Yeah, about that. If you are not willing to back the call of a .gov member...you're gov is either too big, or...your ability to keep folks informed of protocol is sadly lacking. [/quote] I'm glad you are on the other side. If you alliances hasn't even advanced enough to discover tiered government yet and you let anybody in your alliance dictate policy, I feel better about this war already. [QUOTE]Did you even read that Maskofblue? We arnt looking for peace and we are actually looking forward to fighting VE, the fact they had to come in to save you is a sign of our victory...[/quote] ... he said, between heaving sobs. If that were true you would not have posted this overlong, self important, whiny rant about our allies being allies.

So let me get this straight, when Misfit Nations was at war with both New Polar Order and Kingdom of Hyrule, it was, in your words, "fighting one on one"? I recognize you don't really add anything to the war, KoH, but you and Polar do in fact add up to two alliances (well, one and a quarter). So, now that you have to fight a sanctioned alliance like we are, you come crying to the forum? Let me clarify a few things here. Firstly, we never asked VE to help, though we certainly welcome it. They came to roll with us because they are our allies. I'm sorry you do not understand how allies work, but when you are at war, they tend to aid you. Often they do so militarily. If this is not what Polar would do for you, perhaps you should consider reevaluating your treaty with them. Secondly, we never made an agreement not to bring allies into the war. One of our lower government members said we would not be activating treaties, however, that was never their call to make. Why you thought you could negotiate how Misfits sees fit to pursue the war by talking to someone you knew didn't have the authority to speak for the alliance, we have no idea. However, you did and that one is on you. Next time you want to make an agreement with us, try speaking to our leadership. Finally, let me close by saying this. You have embarrassed yourself far more than you have embarrassed us, though as a result of this thread we will not, for the time being be entertaining any requests for peace. You want to be a thorn, you will be treated like one. You will be torn from the minuscule cut you inflicted and thrown in the trash. tl;dr [center][img]http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4574/tenorman.jpg[/img] Oh, the tears of unfathomable sadness! My-yummy! Mm-yummy, you guys! [/center]

[quote name='greatmagnus' timestamp='1296101463' post='2604163'] I could have sworn that Legion had an NPO viceroy that dictated their every move, kicked members out who didn't support the NPO, and basically ran the alliance. [/quote] You'd be wrong, actually. Z'ha'dum started with an alliance that effectively had disbanded, prevented anyone from leaving (with one exception, Korlus) to avoid them dying completely in a mass exodus, allowed them to make their own policy for the most part, and promptly vacated the premises when Legion was ready to stand on its own again. Allow me to reiterate, Legion went from nearly disbanded to sanctioned again because of that NPO Viceroy. Legion ended up allied to the NPO because the Viceroy actually lived up to the promise of helping them rebuild and showed kindness where they very easily could have shown cruelty, and indeed were expected to. This situation was unacceptable, however, so instead of doing things that created reliable allies, like Legion, NPO FA decided to instead stop talking to allies for months on end, decide they had too many friends and look into which treaties to cut, and bank on MK joining their side of the war, and of course, naturally, the one most responsible for creating the alliance with Legion had to go for pointing out the deficiencies in the FA policy (they don't like it). Of course this was well over a year ago, they wouldn't leave the same people in charge and continue the same policy after getting rolled so they wouldn't find themselves in the same situation they did during the Karma war again... oh.