Viluin

[quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1340114684' post='2988850'] I would've made him sit in peace mode for perpetuity. This is quite understanding of you, jerdge [/quote] I've always said I'd leave peace mode as soon as my trades are sorted. I was actually ready to leave peace mode a few days ago, but my trade circle fell apart at the last second. As soon as jerdge comes back I will be ready to fulfill my end of the terms.

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1340094120' post='2988699'] You don't have notify on in your IRC client, do you? It's hard to grab your attention there... [/quote] It doesn't make a sound, the only thing that happens is two tiny blue dots light up.

[quote name='Expletive Deleted' timestamp='1340092762' post='2988694'] If you don't want to do that, you can sit in peace mode forever. You're being extremely obtuse. Your nation is losing value the longer you keep it. You might as well cash in now and do some serious damage to your enemies. You really only have two options, fight until your warchest runs out or pay reps and be a terrible stat-hugger. Point of no return? Well, let's see. You crossed the first line when you decided to rogue. You crossed the second line when you violated the terms of your agreement with GPA. You crossed the third line when you posted this attention-mongering thread. At this point, it's sink or swim. You can cross the last line and win the Special Olympics by leaving Peacemode to tear your enemies a new one. Make me proud, son. [/quote] Of course I'm not going to sit in peace mode forever. I am making preparations to come out and fight as we speak, but I'd prefer to resolve this conflict before that happens because it would benefit all parties involved.

[quote name='TimLee' timestamp='1340087378' post='2988645'] I believe in terms of war. It would be easier to let you go instead if you continued to war them. It would cost them a lot more than being done with it all. [/quote] Why does everyone expect me to fight until I've reached a point where my nation is unstoppable, [i]then[/i] peace out? That's a little late, and there's no way I would let an alliance destroy all the expensive parts of my nation and peace out when the fights begin to favor me instead. The weaker I get, the stronger my relative strength becomes, and after the several months of war people mentioned here I would have no interest in rebuilding my nation, it would take too long to recover the lost tech and money. If I lose another 50k nation strength and a billion dollars I'm never stopping, I've made this clear many times in the past. There is a point of no return and luckily we haven't passed it yet.

[quote name='Dajobo' timestamp='1340074819' post='2988202'] Right now what you have done in a military sense is very little but the damage you have done to people believing a word you say is enormous. The ball is in your court. [/quote] Are you saying I hurt your feelings? I don't get it.

[quote name='Canik' timestamp='1340069582' post='2988138'] Wow. I am glad I war enough to stay under 100k. I'd hate to care about my nation as much as this guy. Before this thread, I'm sure a lot of alliances would have accepted you and waved off GPA/NpO. Not anymore. Your only options are to fight them until they lose interest, or pay the reps. That's all there is to it now brother. No need for any more discussion, it's not helping. [/quote] This thread has actually helped me tremendously so far (not that it could get any worse), but you are entitled to your opinion. All peace talks were dead and I was on the brink of deletion before this.

[quote name='Gingervites' timestamp='1340067529' post='2988113'] not if it is $2.4 billion worth of tech [/quote] At a generous rate of $4.5m / 50 tech, that's only 26666.666666667 tech, which can be paid in less than 2.5 years! I guess any deal sounds better when you word it like that.

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1340063721' post='2988081'] Not saying that they're being "unreasonable", but apparently Umbrella also thinks that you owe them something. About four times what the GPA and the NpO have been asking to you, combined: (Unless JoshuaR was joking, of course.) [/quote] I'm pretty sure that was a joke. Sending money to Umbrella and disrupting their tech throughput is like the worst thing you can do to them.

[quote name='Baltus' timestamp='1340062768' post='2988062'] Why only rogue for 3 days? If you rogue, why not just go all out? I mean you literally declared a one man war against an alliance (that's what roguing is) and you expect them to let you off with white peace when your warchest is in the billions after fighting for 3 days? [/quote] I actually went rogue on 5 different alliances, there's a bigger picture to it all, but the others were more reasonable in their peace talks. GPA/NpO more or less just got caught in the crossfire, they were never the main target, which makes this situation kinda funny but also that much more frustrating.

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1340061568' post='2988039'] It's not actually two times the damage, but less than the overall damage he caused. It's six months of paying reps because we have a policy to not go beyond that regardless. He could have gone free in three months if he had accepted to send tech along with money, but he decided not to do it. Or he could be free in 1 day if he accepts to spend half of his treasury in tech. Or he could have tried to negotiate with something else than just "hey forget I've been threatening you for all this time I'll be a good boy now let's make white peace can't we?" We asked for 486 millions, which he would have paid in shipments of 4.5 millions each (we have low NS nations with the FAC that can use that money). That can be paid in six months. He could have also converted half of it in tech at 50 tech for 4.5 millions (i.e. 2.7k tech), paying everything in three months. Paying the NpO could have taken another three months. The overall duration would have been between 6 and 9 months, which isn't an entire year. Or, I don't know, considering that he was bragging that he had several billions and that he could have gone on fighting until 2014, he could have fought for more than [i]three days[/i], to see what sort of better deal he could get later on. Would I consider leaving him go with lower reps, after his tech, money and infra have been reduced? Probably so. My goal isn't to cripple his nation or to enslave him - which is definitely something I'd highly dislike - but to ensure that his capability of harming us again is severely reduced, and that the price for having attacked us "helps" dissuading him from trying again. For all the time he just [s]asked[/s] [i]demanded[/i] that we let him go, with his warchest basically intact and with limited damage, after a few days of combat, after having deliberately lied to our face, at the same time claiming that we should trust him when he swears that he won't bother us anymore. I am sorry for him - I truly am - but it doesn't work that way. I am not going to do his work for him, reducing our requests because he's unwilling to fight, incapable to negotiate and [s]incapable[/s] unwilling even just to understand the terms of the discussion (see all the nonsense he said about perma ZI and "enslavement", and all the silly accusations he threw at us during the previous talks - on our forums). Why should I allow him to go away freely, without even the need of negotiating/asking anything? [b]He doesn't want to pay tech, he doesn't want to spend time sending money, he doesn't want to have to fight for longer than what he thinks is appropriate - which is three days; he doesn't (didn't) want to burn part of his money (still having billions in his treasury and also getting around 2,000 [i]more[/i] tech levels - I am not even sure that we can consider that a punishment!)[/b] All his reasoning is that it's terrible that he's stuck in a bad position right now that the game is dying - I have no clue how he got this idea, BTW: I didn't dare to ask - and the fact that [i]his actions[/i] brought him at this point is completely irrelevant for him. After all, he has all the rest of CN to blame. He really doesn't look like someone I can trust to have learned his lesson and to never bother us again, in fact he looks exactly the opposite of that. While feeling pity, I am not going to save his backside in his place just because. Oh but we are the big bad GPA (no kidding: he called us that way... ) In fact you probably made your counter offer when I had already left IRC (as I was telling you I was doing), unless you were talking with someone else. I'll think about your offer, but I have to say it's not much appealing as it is. It would have been decent, hadn't you already lied and showed that you're completely unreliable. Six or five billions, you remain too big as a threat regardless. Maybe we can make a deal about fighting for some time and then spending that billion... I'll have you know (you're definitely not prohibited from adding something to your most recent proposal, anyway). [size=1][[b]Edit:[/b]typo][/size] [/quote] My IRC client doesn't inform me when I'm querying someone that has left the server. Do you know how much a billion dollars is? My nation isn't as prosperous as it once was, and it never will be. A billion dollars is months of income (possibly years if NpO won't give me peace) and lots of people in this game would kill for that kind of money. Money is the essence of life in this game, and with the loss of my infrastructure, it's a vital and [b]finite[/b] resource. Asking me to get rid of 3 billion dollars is outrageous. I'd get less than 1000 tech in return, that's hardly relevant. We're talking about a <10% increase in damage output, not to mention an inflated NS level. I don't understand why you consider me a threat to your alliance in the future, I want this conflict to end more than anyone and I certainly wouldn't start it again. I told you on IRC: I'm already in peace mode, I have nothing to gain from deceiving you right now. Especially not at the cost of a billion dollars.

[quote name='nerolocutus' timestamp='1340056696' post='2987968'] It's relevant because this whole thread is re: you crying because NpO and GPA won't be more lenient in reps. How do you expect more lenient reps when your still obviously looking for targets to attack, and are still ATTACKING those nations with spy operations? Dude, i'll say it again: You're past the point of no return, get over it. [/quote] Lol. War is war, and as long as I'm still at war I will act like it. We'll see if I'm past the point of no return.

[quote name='nerolocutus' timestamp='1340056206' post='2987964'] So you admit to being at war with us, and yet you claim your attacks were just "simple little rogue attacks that you stopped right away"... and therefore that's why you shouldn't have to pay reps.... This is truly one of the funniest thread i've ever read on CN.... Believe me dude.... we know you were paying reps to GPA, then stopped. We won't give you another chance to start and stop. Either fight till your dead, reroll, or quit. NO other options. [/quote] The spy attacks were performed after peace was off the table, while I was in peace mode. I spied on your top 20 nations to scout for targets. Standard procedure, I'm not sure why this is relevant.

[quote name='nerolocutus' timestamp='1340056030' post='2987961'] Six (attempted) spy attacks is not trolling, it is an attack worthy of war in Planet Bob. Dude... your an old nation... how do you know these things?! [/quote] ..I was already at war with your alliance when they happened. The trolling part was the messages I sent you. Besides, the first spy attack succeeded, the others were just out of curiosity to see if you had more than $100 million now.

[quote name='nerolocutus' timestamp='1340055658' post='2987952'] I love how this joker is trying to cry about being the victim here.... I've been a victim of his (spy) attacks, this is what he's sent me: And now just in the last 5 minutes.... So.... buddy, if you want compassion and wanna cry about being in a sticky spot, stop doing whats PUTTING you in the sticky spot. This entire thread made me lol.... [/quote] That's just personal trolling because you have no warchest at all, and you ran to peace mode to hide from me after I spied on you. I do that in all my wars, it's unrelated to the matter at hand.

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1340054455' post='2987935'] You realize that Viluin is probably far better off than most NpO nations. Not sure about GPA warchests. [/quote] GPA warchests are [i]too damn high[/i]. Only of their strong nations though.

[quote name='Teddyyo' timestamp='1340053234' post='2987920'] I'm equating this to a prisoner. Not a negotiating party. Because he has literally no leverage other than 'this isnt fair'. I don't call it negotiating. It's, they set terms, he follows them or fights. Simple as that [/quote] It's not that one-sided. I have about 6 billion dollars and every wonder in the game worth of leverage. But it's true they have more leverage, because I'm the one who doesn't want to spend the time fighting them. That is why I am willing to sacrifice a billion dollars, which is double the amount of reps they wanted in exchange for not having to spend time paying reps.

[quote name='Teddyyo' timestamp='1340047955' post='2987871'] Lowball your captors in negotiations. BEST IDEA EVER [/quote] It has worked so far, actually.

I have made a counter-offer to the GPA on IRC (one worse than white peace). A billion dollars of capital destruction in exchange for peace with the GPA. That's around 4 months of saving up. EDIT: I don't think the message came through on IRC. But, here it is.

[quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1340042608' post='2987816'] Hey look, the guy that rouged then tried to !@#$%* and moan his way out of it on the OWF from peace mode has... a sense of pride? [/quote] It's not about pride, it's about capital destruction being pointless. When he first proposed that option I thought he was joking, to me it's worse than reps. Especially because then I still have to deal with NpO. [quote name='Icewolf' timestamp='1340043947' post='2987830'] Why should you not quit? Because you don't want to. If you wanted to quit then you wouldn't be worried about reps or war. You would just quit. If you were on the fence you would also just quit. The fact that you are here shows you want to keep going. Which means you have to play the game. CN is about action vs consequence. You scratch my back, I scratch yours, I stab your back, you punch me in the face. If you end it here you are a guy who rage quit after roguing and not being given white peace. Again, if you wanted to quit or were on the fence then this wouldn't bother you. What bothers you is the fact that you might want to keep playing in the future. So again, clearly you want to keep playing. You reckon the end game is coming. You want to be a part of it. Otherwise you wouldn't complain about having your nation nerfed. So I think that's the reason you should not quit. [/quote] Of course I don't *want* to quit. But between the options that were on the table, quitting was the best one at the time. My goal is still to get white peace before !@#$ hits the fan again.

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1340042113' post='2987804'] Ok, for the public: My most recent proposal, to try compose the need of Viluin to not spend too much time paying reparations, and our need to deter future attacks, was for him to "convert" his reparations in a reduction of his warchest, at the rate of half billion for each month of monetary reps. For example, he could have paid money for 2 months, spending 2 billions in tech; he could have just spent 3 billions in tech, being then immediately free; he could have paid for 3 months, spending 1.5 billions, etc. That wouldn't have covered the NpO front, of course (I didn't find any of them on line). Viluin refused my offer, saying that he won't accept anything less than white peace. He says that he got in some rogue association that grants him trades, and he started again to say that we'd better allow him a free peace, or else it will be worse for us, etc. Apparently he's very happy with resuming the hostilities: I guess that all is well what ends well, as everyone will have what they're looking for. Incidentally: for the sake of transparency I asked Viluin if he was ok with making our logs public, but he didn't answer. I am thus sorry that I can't share them here. [/quote] You are painting the wrong picture here. I never said "you better give me peace or else" or anything of the sort. I simply told you my military situation had improved, and I'm no longer a lonely nation on None, meaning I will likely keep fighting instead of deleting my nation. Unless I get white peace. Destroying 3 billion dollars of my warchest is retarded, sorry. I refuse to do that out of principle.

[quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1340041555' post='2987795'] All I've gotten from this topic is a immense amount of respect (and I already had a ton) for jerdge. He's compromised, been understanding, and generally entertained a whiny rogue who doesn't want to pay perfectly fair reps. Even after this nonsense thread, he offered Viluin a one-off solution (destroy cash reserves) which wouldn't cripple him too badly, yet he still refuses and makes no point besides this Polish hostage situation. What is it you want, Viluin, to be let off scott-free? Jerdge has offered you every accommodation to try to a solution, yet you seem to be unwilling to accept anything but white peace. While the CN community is generally a fan of white peace, nobody is going to think you deserve it when you rouged on somebody. What do you think you deserve, exactly? You've made no reasonable offer here. Also, I've fought wars for months on end. I enjoyed every minute of it [/quote] I've lost over 5000 high-level infrastructure, 3000 land and 1000 tech, and I've paid 6 aid slots in reps (including some tech). That is not "being let off scott-free" after a raid.

[quote name='Adrian LaCroix' timestamp='1340041407' post='2987792'] People don't like it when you go rogue on them for no reason, and want you to pay them lots of money when you chicken out partway through and decide you want the war to stop. Amazing. [/quote] They don't necessarily want any money from me, they want me to suffer so I won't do it again. Which is funny, because if I decide to go rogue and quit the game in the future, I'm not going to hit some random guy, I'm obviously going to hit the alliances that made me pay massive reperations in the past. They're just planting seeds of hatred with this behavior, which is the exact opposite of what they're trying to achieve. I'd say white peace will solve everyone's problems.

[quote name='Megamind' timestamp='1340040143' post='2987779'] Then what the hell is the reason for this whining topic? Seriously listen to Brehon, man the $%&@ up and face the consequences of your actions or get the $%&@ out. [/quote] To see what others think of this situation, and how they would try to get out of it. It's easy for you to tell someone else to pay 9 months of reps all by themselves. I don't think anyone has ever had to pay such reps before, so forgive me if I don't take your advice of "manning up" seriously, you don't know what you're talking about.

I don't want to join any of the potential alliances that might want to start some trouble with GPA/NpO. There's no point in going down that route if I'll be stuck in an alliance I don't want to be in. I've spoken to jerdge again, one of his final offers was that I should destroy $2 billion of my cash for peace. It seems like we can't come to a proper agreement. I've had some luck in other areas, though, so deletion may not be necessary. Thank you for your time.

[quote name='Diego18' timestamp='1340037793' post='2987758'] So why do you think they will spend 9 months attacking you then...? [/quote] Because I am one nation, and they are hundreds. They can spread out the workload.