Jocabia

Can you quote in the logs when exactly you corrected this misunderstanding? Certainly you must have done so, yes?

I read the full logs. I just quoted them to you. I notice you can't address my comments. You just want me to link back to your half-truths and lies. Come on, big man. What happened to all that ego, all that bluster? You wanted to have a public show down. A PR war. You're the guy with the gift of gab, aren't you? This is a game of war, building and diplomacy. Shouldn't you be good at one of them? Most of your alliance is good at war. I give them the props due them. One assumes they chose you because you were good at diplomacy and PR. Should just some random member of CSN be able to talk you into a corner in so few words? Now, address why you said during talks that you changed the terms due to the screenshots? Now's your chance. Address why you showed up to talks without LoSS and when challenged told us that LoSS was on its own? Now's your chance. I'm using the same logs you are. Everyone has seen them in their entirety. Quote to me where you said in the first negotiation that you wouldn't peace out without LoSS? Quote me where LoSS's peace was mentioned in the counter offer? LoSS has made a point to ensure that peace with you was a requirement of peace with them. They've stood by you. Please quote from either of the first two talks where you did the same for LoSS. I'll wait.

Hacking an admin account isn't OOC? Ghosting the account of one of our members on the OWF to post the information isn't OOC? Hmmm... we must have different definitions of OOC. You encouraged that behavior by using their information on the OWF and in negotiations. The mods thought it was so OOC that they deleted it from the forums. You jumped all over anything you could get to try and get the advantage. And you were wrong. It didn't give you the advantage nor did it help your negotiations. It just made it apparent that you'll do anything for even the appearance of winning. If you want to discourage that behavior in the future, it's simple. Decry it. Don't use it. Ignore it. Saying out of one side of your mouth that you're against such behavior while quoting it out of the other, encourages future events that are the same. Much like you claim to be against your membership trying to get us to disband, when we all know the truth of that as well, now don't we. You can't win honorably. At all. We both know it. You've known it since 6 days into the war and that's why you tried to negotiate your surrender. Nothing's changed other than just how much further away from victory you've gotten. Your choices were to use every underhanded trick in the books or lose. And you chose both.

Well, it's good that you're finally admitting you're full of it. We all agree. You're making idle threats. I'm glad to have you say so publicly. I'm sure your alliance will be happy to know that help is not coming and that you're condemning them to oblivion. Uh-huh. Again, was it negotiations when you showed up after a single day and went from 30K in reps to white peace and apology? That's not taking a hard stance? You thought based on edited and incomplete information that our membership was in revolt and that you were in a position of power. You were wrong on both counts. Yes, you've been very honorable. How could I even remotely think that the consistent and pervasive behavior engaged in by the most senior members of your alliance would have anything to do with its leadership. How silly of me. I guess we know now that your membership and you are not on the same page. I'm glad that's as obvious to you as it is to the rest of us. And yet I do. You should try it. I'd actually prefer it if the members of your alliance were not crushed after this war. I've had great experiences with them and every one of them I've done battle with has fought admirably. Honestly, if not for someone screwing up the coordinated attacks of Runt and 907, I'd have been unable to recover. You guys keep saying this. These were separate negotiations. When you showed up, our alliance asked you why LoSS wasn't there. You didn't say, because they've got things worked out on their own. You didn't say that one of your terms was to ensure they got peace as well. What you did was insulted them and told us not to worry about it. That's plainly visible in the logs. Any other spinning on the events, requires people to assume you were being dishonest in negotiations when you said the things you said. Neither scenario makes you look particularly honorable. Hmmm... once again your current story doesn't match the logs. What you gave as the reason was that our members were in revolt. You gave that reason twice. Here, I'll help you out. And I quote: Liz we know that you have members and allies that don't care for your reps offer to us. Take the moment to listen to them and work to find something that is beatifical and not a outrageous for everyone in CN to accpet. That was in reply to her question about what your reasoning is for switching the offer. And I quote again: So tell you what up until the logs from hearing CSN wanted to accept what you walked away. I was thinking of a lower offer to counter with that wasn't white peace. So I give you the opportunity to find that number. Whoops. Looks like someone doesn't quite remember what they said. You changed your terms because you saw the screenshots. No point in lying about it now when I can simply quote you saying otherwise. Well, I guess if your members don't care about their pixels they should have no issues with you being hard-headed. We're all set then, I suppose. I guess we've established that rather than simply go back to the agreement you originally attempted to make, you'd prefer we burn you into the ground. See, negotiation generally has both people looking to find middle ground. Not continually moving away from it. We made an initial offer you were terribly unlike to accept. I don't think that was wise, but I wasn't there and it wasn't up to me. You decided upon getting incomplete information from an OOC source that you were going to make an offer that you KNEW there was no way we were going to accept. You had an opportunity to end this for your membership and do the right thing and you instead chose to slap us in the face. That was your choice. For the record, I told Goose not to make this post because I think it locks into an offer and shuts down negotiations. I mean, now we don't have the option of taking a page from your book and asking for 80K in reps.

Oh, and let's talk about ghosts. Have you used ghosts, DT? I know the line your giving your members is that we're cheating and various other nonsense. I've found 5 ghosts in your alliance today. Out of 50 nations. They either ghosted another AA or they are ghosting yours. The difference between us and you is that our tactics are successful. Every time someone changes to your AA we devastate them. I suggest you attempt to do the same. That's called prosecuting a war. Example: http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=292253 That's what we do when someone sits in symphony and then jumps into your AA and jumps on a couple of our members. We don't whine and complain and say it isn't fair. We just crush them into dust.

Does using OOC information to complete flip your offer sound like negotiation? Does that sound like a "reasonable end to this war"? I notice that it's time to stop talking when someone calls you out on the difference between your private stance and what you say in public? Which alliances are coming to your defense? Where are your threats that this front is about to blow up with people entering on your side? Where is all the bluster about how you're winning this war? Come on, don't save it all for your backroom BS. Here's your chance for bluster. Or do you admit that you're condemning your membership to ZI because you refuse to accept the terms you told us you wanted?

By the by, the average NS lost in DT in the last five days is 7K per nation. 7K for every nation in DT. How long do you think you can withstand an assault of that magnitude? You've got hardly any nukes left. No navies. No land. And you're entire alliance is quickly heading toward ZI. At what point is time to stop playing the fiddle? We're in public. Say it before your alliance and ours, do you actually think you guys can win? It's time to start being realistic and stop acting like if you say it, it must be true.

@myworld, I've gotten a number of threats from your members about all these allies that are coming any day to kick our ass. And you've made that particular threat on several occasions in IRC. Now, we're in public and I notice that said threat is noticeably absent. Why have one face behind closed doors and another in public, eh? Threaten us now. Come on, don't you know how bad we're losing. That's the party line you've been telling your members. We're all in big trouble. Such big trouble that we'll have to accept white peace and give an apology. Well, here we are in public. Where's the hard stance, brother? As for you guys not knowing anything about attempting to get us to disband, two nights ago, Magnet sent messages to several of our members suggesting they leave for other alliances. Other members of your alliance tried to talk SOM into a ceasefire (for him and his opponents). Still others have tried to talk Legacy members into a ceasefire under false pretenses. Are all these members, rogue? Magnet, is he not a major player in your alliance? I suppose you're not responsible for him, either, eh? We both know what's going on here. You're losing a war. You're going to continue losing a war. No one is coming to save you. And every day it'll get worse. So stop pretending like you're in a position to dictate terms to us. You aren't. And you won't be. As for your half truths or blatant lies, wannna tell us again how you brought LoSS with you to the original peace talks? Wanna explain exactly what drove you to suddenly switch from 30K in reps to white peace and an apology from us? Because the logs reveal what really occurred. You took advantage of someone hacking admin access to our forum and providing you with out of context quote, used your misunderstanding of that discussion to claim that we were in revolt. You thought you had the cheat code and a way out of a war where you got in WAAAAAAY over your head. And unfortunately, you're such a poor diplomat that you really didn't understand what leverage you really had and in doing so you condemned your entire alliance. Your alliance had the opportunity to recover from this war entirely within a month or two. You had the opportunity to be fully on the road to recovery at this very moment. Instead you condemned your alliance to being completely weakened and unable to prosecute a war for a very long time. Nations who wanted nothing other than to just continue building and saving are now watching everything they built be destroyed. And that occurred because your ego outdistanced your skill in battle or diplomacy.

[quote name='Heft' date='20 February 2010 - 06:08 PM' timestamp='1266710884' post='2194273'] There are 373 wars involving the NSO. There are about 150 NSO nations. So if your complaint is that we aren't fighting, then you're dumb, ignorant, or lying. If your complaint is we aren't leaving all of our nations constantly on the battlefield in a war that we've been constantly involved in for weeks and will continue to be involved in indefinitely, then you're just dumb. Either way, you're not making sense. For reference, CSN, despite having more nations overall (about 170) and more nations in war mode (132) only has 299 wars on its AA. This is a really dumb argument and I would really hate to continue. I only post this to prevent people from taking you at your word and assuming you're correct. [/quote] My complaint is that you're hiding the largest NS nations. That has nothing to do with the fact that some of your nations are actually fighting. You're correct. Not all of you are cowards. It's really only your "fearless" leader and all of those nations who have hidden in peace mode for the entire war. And let's not pretent they've just sat out for a round or two. 8 out of 10 of your largest nations haven't had a war in more than two weeks. Most of them haven't had a war the entire time. For the majority of the current hostilities, one full third of your NS has been hiding in these 8 nations. No fighting. Just cowering. While your allies take the hits they should be taking. While your allies fill the slots they should fill. NSO claims to stand by their allies, but their allies are in ruins because NSO is cowardly. CSN wants more wars. There is no one nations left to declare on. If you think I don't have enough wars, please, please, please, declare on me. I beg of you, up our war count. I can't wait. We only have 299 wars LEFT. We just got all of our opponents to surrender. If only you were so successful... but then, you'd have to actually come out of peace mode to have our kind of success.

[quote name='Jyrinx' date='20 February 2010 - 07:56 PM' timestamp='1266717361' post='2194376'] Going solely from a propaganda point of view, the peace mode argument has become cliché: it's been used way too much to try and degrade so many different foes in such disparate circumstances that it just comes off trite now. Doubly so with the specific situation of the NSO who I believe is outnumbered. I think going with another theme would be better. Again, solely from a quality of propaganda point of view. [/quote] According to NSO, they entered the war while outnumbered to take slots away from their allies, to protect them. The truth is that if NSO would have the nads to actually make war, we'd have been in huge trouble after the GDA/UBD blitz. But all of us got to get ourselves reset and out of anarchy and declare on targets because NSO who actually had the NS to keep us offbalance put all their large nations in peace mode and allowed us to focus solely on the largest nations in the now surrendered alliances. Thanks for that, NSO. It's good thing you aren't the allies you said you were or y'all might have done some real damage.

[quote name='SpoiL' date='20 February 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1266717588' post='2194381'] too bad I can't use the nukes I've rebuilt on you. See, I actually fought in this war. [/quote] Now if you're suggesting I'm not fighting just because they declared peace with my opponents, it doesn't work that way. I was at war with everyone I could find in my range. I just peaced out several opponents. I'm in anarchy, so unless someone attacks me, what would you have me do? If you're alliance wasn't filled with cowards, I'd be at war right now. I'm not in peace mode. Tell your alliance to bring it if you think I need some new wars. Unfortunately, the only alliance we haven't defeated that we were at war with is you. Just as unfortunately, everyone with any NS left is afraid to fight.

[quote name='x Tela x' date='20 February 2010 - 05:40 PM' timestamp='1266709259' post='2194238'] Well, if you know you're in for a long war, and you know you're going to lose most of your strength and end up losing, it's also a perfectly viable strategy to leave a few big nations out of the conflict entirely, for rebuilding after the war. Thumping your chest and claiming to be going down in a blaze of glory, while protecting a portion of your NS from the war is, however, silly. It's a viable option, though. [/quote] That's the problem. They claim one thing and are doing another. That's my beef. If they're really willing to put it all out there and fight like they claim, then get out there and get on it. They've been laying out big giant bull turds about our alliance forever and yet those cowards are completely afraid to actually jump in with us. I'll state a fact. Those guys come out of peace mode and we're going to kick them across the field. They know it. We know it. And we'd do it whether they were in eight hundred fronts or just us. We were doing it when we were being blitzed by UBD and GDA. We were prepared and they weren't. Now they're hiding in peace mode because they simply weren't ready for a long-term war. Everything else is just fluff. I'm here. I'm ready. NSO, if you are what you say you are, bring it. And lay it all out there. Or keep hugging your infra. I don't care if it's the latter but don't expect me not to point it out and laugh.

[quote name='Heft' date='20 February 2010 - 05:07 PM' timestamp='1266707274' post='2194200'] lol, are you serious? First, peace mode argument? Really? Jesus christ. Second, we're well aware of our statistical position and the probable outcome of this venture. Not our fault if you can't see past the superficial. Third, we've been at war longer than any other alliance. Good luck pushing that "you're all cowards" line. Fourth, we've been regularly cycling nations both in and out of peace mode whenever it's made sense. Leaving everything out in the open would be "dumb" rather than "honorable" - not that we've ever claimed to be "honorable" (whatever that means) anyway. Fifth, I'm now on my fourth consecutive round of wars. Do you love me yet? [/quote] Yes, I have a lot of respect for you taking it to the people you're fighting. I'm all for people taking a breather to put their military back together, get out of anarchy and select new targets. I did it. Anyone who can should. It helps with sustainability. However, beyond that, they're hiding in peace mode. I took on a nation bigger than me that killed my infra. I'm not ashamed to say he kicked me $@!. However, I was there to help wear him down and make the attacks of the other nations land better. It worked and we were effective. If you believe the greater good is doing as much damage as you can (and many of NSO has claimed that and one is doing so right now in the propaganda thread) then NSO is failing. If you believe the greater good is to get in the fight to pull as much of the attacks off of your allies as you can, then NSO is failing. If you believe the greater good is to preserve as much NS as you can, then NSO is succeeding. Is that what NSO is going for? Infra-hugging?

[quote name='Lamuella' date='20 February 2010 - 04:06 PM' timestamp='1266703603' post='2194150'] to be fair, peace mode when used right is a very useful strategic weapon in making a second wave. [/quote] True enough. Unfortunately, there is no second wave. They aren't coming. They're waiting it out. They've been waiting it out for two weeks already. In another thread Methrage is talking about how important it is to come to the aid of your allies. Well, these guys are watching their allies and friends burn.

[quote name='shahenshah' date='20 February 2010 - 03:24 PM' timestamp='1266701044' post='2194107'] Peace mode argument? [/quote] Yes, yes, I've heard this all before. It's all just strategy to hide, right? See, it's strategy to hide and then jump your opponents. It's not strategy to hide all while talking crap about how you're this amazing warrior. And you can't be the alliance that claims war is honor and all the other nonsense that was in their DOW and then refuse to fight. Shall I show which of the 8 nations out of their top 10 have been involved in even one war in the last two weeks? Hiding half of your NS while pointing at your NS and claiming you're these amazing fighters is just embarrassing. If they're so tough, they're welcome to come prove it. Join in the fight and help to wear down their opponents. Or they can admit what we all have known since weeks ago. We won. Now they're just trying to preserve as much NS as they can till it's over. That's not honor. That's cowardice.

[quote name='Heft' date='20 February 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1266692176' post='2193927'] The lack of resolve of others doesn't really have much impact on us. [/quote] Will half your alliance be in peace mode for that entire time or are you actually committing to FIGHTing on? It's easy to be brave when you protect your NS from peace mode.

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='19 February 2010 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1266613611' post='2192418'] You surrendered. Sorry. [/quote] Don't be sorry. I was pretty happy with them surrendering.

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' date='20 February 2010 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1266689478' post='2193842'] Keep the bantering out of this thread please. And also, comparing CSN to a fat chick isn't really something to be very proud of... [/quote] We are. We're sitting here just wanting a chance to join the dance. Don't make us wait. Fat chicks need love too. [IMG]http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k144/jocabia/motivational-poster03.jpg[/IMG] Come on. What's the worst that can happen?

[quote name='Methrage' date='20 February 2010 - 05:35 AM' timestamp='1266665736' post='2193499'] [color="#008000"][b]4:20 Eastern Time, [color="#FF0000"]Enjoy the Nukes,[/b][/color][/color][/quote] I'm sure they are enjoying the nuke. I wish you hadn't gotten your nation kicked so badly that you're half my NS. I wish I could enjoy a few nukes as well. Considering what you had to be to for Goose to declare, your current NS is a hilarious loss of power. http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=164581 30K NS in three days, man. You're really going to act like you're winning? I've taken one of the biggest hits in our entire alliance and even I haven't lost that much NS since the war started in January. [IMG]http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k144/jocabia/NSO_Pain_2.jpg[/IMG] Yup, that's right. CSN is like a fat chick kicking you in the nuts when all you want to do is dance... in and out of peace mode.

[IMG]http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k144/jocabia/NSO_Motivation.jpg[/IMG] http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=128772 There's a link to my nation if you hippies want to stop cowering in peace mode and actually live up to that declaration of war you were all so proud of.

[quote name='astronaut jones' date='14 February 2010 - 08:32 PM' timestamp='1266201167' post='2181907']Trust me, you're of no significance to this world. [/quote] I love that in a thread written specifically for an entire alliance to declare war on a single person, that you entered to tell him he's unimportant. What's next? You gonna reply to me to tell my I don't warrant a reply?

[quote name='GrimCity' date='07 February 2010 - 03:13 AM' timestamp='1265533983' post='2166607'] I like the comic. CSN so far i've experienced nothing but decency through warring with you. [/quote] I'm sure there will be the occasional person who gets really mad, as there have been with some we war against, but I think we all aspire to being cool about this.

[quote name='Scorponok' date='06 February 2010 - 07:59 AM' timestamp='1265464778' post='2164384'] Bye CSN. You had it coming. [/quote] You're leaving? But we were just starting to have fun.

[quote name='Corinan' date='05 February 2010 - 12:52 AM' timestamp='1265352757' post='2161021'] Hey I didn't force ya'll to use my avatar in your DoW. Nor was I the one to bring NSO up in this thread. Your terrible alliance is obsessed with the Sith, and more specifically, me. It's flattering though, really. I always enjoy seeing new members join my fan club. [/quote] Anyone notice that we're bragging about winning batttles and they're bragging about how our DoW has an avatar one of them uses? Cor, I guess you gotta take your licks where ya can, eh? You can have the avatar thing. We'll just settle for watching your nations glow.

Yeah, seriously, attack. I thought this was a blitz.