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When is it actually enough diplomacy?


TypoNinja

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My first time messing with this thing, so forgive me if I mess anything up.

When is it actually enough diplomacy? This first came up as a major point of contention as far as I'm aware in the Six Million Dollar War, and again in this (as yet unnamed war).

People will say one side or another didn't try enough diplomacy, or give the other side enough time. When is it enough?

I would challenge the assumption that diplomacy must be lengthy and drawn out over days. After all when dealing with unauthorized attacks it typically takes but moments "no hes not ours, feel free to roll him" "yes hes ours, pardon me while I smack him upside the head, where shall we send the money?". Is there some underlying reason that its impossible to solve other issues as rapidly?

While everyone can agree that diplomacy makes the world go round, there are points where its just not worth pursuing any longer or has been ended by some other deeper disagreement. Diplomacy after all is about a negotiated settlement that is presumably somewhere between the best case each party had initially hoped for. If you establish rapidly that one or both sides have an immutable position would not negotiations end quickly while still being fully complete?

To use the Six Million Dollar War as an example, because it is quite frankly a great example, almost text book. If one party tells the other that a specific action will mean war, and that specific action occurs, what is left to talk about? At what point does one negotiate from there? Even if the conversation were to last but moments, is that not a complete discussion?

I don't have a point, I'm thinking out loud, though I'm genuinely curious about an answer to any or all of these questions.

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Generally, diplomacy would mean both sides would give a response towards the issue. What's happened here is that it seems (according to the logs) that VE brushed off Polar's attempt at giving a response, thus the claim of the lack of diplomacy.

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It appears all attempts to be diplomatic were meant with a brush off, or Impero saying that's not good enough. There was never an attempt to actually talk in good faith, based off the logs posted to the OW. There's a serious problem with this whole thing mate, when you have one of your friends describing the whole thing as "mystery shopping" to see if Polar would "do you harm if they were given the choice." Entrapment via idiot, not worth a war.

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Quite frankly, the main determining factors of the length of a negotiation is how much you want to kill the other guy, and how much you want to keep people from helping him. There's no such thing as an immutable position within a void: such a position evolves based on these factors. You would give much more leeway to an alliance you see as a friend than one you see as a pest or as a threat. You'd be much more willing to use diplomacy when there's a high likelihood of you facing a losing war than if you have all the power behind you.

And naturally, as negotiation is a tool for advancing national interest, then by definition there will almost never be "enough" diplomacy for anyone when it comes to a war: for a war means that two sides, wanting A and B, met; but failed to find a C that satisfies them both. So, whilst one side might try and get what they want by force because they've judged the application of power to be a more likely way of achieving their goals, the other will still believe that diplomacy was more likely to get them what they want.

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Personally, I consider diplomacy at an end when nations start jumping into peace mode. After that, negotiations are just stalling tactics.

If anyone should learn anything from the 6MD War and this one, if you're going to negotiate, don't send an order to go in peace mode. Just stand there, negotiate, not a word to your membership that they're in trouble. Diplomacy could last for days, even weeks if that happens, like with VE-TKTB, and it ends in peace.

If someone asks you if you've done something wrong, and you flee, everyone will assume you did something wrong and start pulling out the guns.

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