Announcement from the Blackstone Commission

[Andover]

First off its expected if its just you forming an alliance that no one is gonna have a clue how to run government positions besides you (assuming you have experience in each ministry and doing those tasks), Ok? so train them, whats so hard about that? I did it in ERA and most alliances will try and train gov-worthy people so they can run a ministry. The guy who joined SLAP is active and is on our forums often and does stuff, now you claim you where the only active one in the alliance so either A) you pushed way to hard on your members and they ignored you or B) you where an ass to your members and they didnt like you; didnt wanna do anything for the alliance.

If you had shown an ounce of respect to your alliance when you disbanded do you think people would have trolled this thread and bashed you for how you disbanded them? no.

Also quit whining about how this should RIP, if you cant take criticism then GTFO the OWF. SLAP protected the AA because we wanted to, it wasnt the concern of anyone but those alliances who wanted to protect the AA.

If anyone is making a fool of themselves its you Potface.

[Mason]

Andover, you're basing a lot on one member you picked up who, for whatever reasons, decided they wanted to become active with your alliance. Pot has gone out of his way to kindly explain his motivation. It was his choice, and a justified one at that, to disband it without prior notice. Now it's just become a pissing contest to see who gets the last word. YOu have your point of view. He has his. I have mine. Everyone else who's posted has theirs. Isn't that the way the OWF works? Everyone's stated their opinion and we can at least agree to disagree. End of line.

[Toshiro Hitsugaya]

Perhaps late, but from what I knew of Blackstone they were a pretty good alliance with a lot of dedication. I do not know where I can get better graphics at by the way.

[Moe Szyslak]

[quote name='PotFace' timestamp='1294170308' post='2563300']
No? Good. I'll leave you with this:

It wasn't BCOM's responsibility to disband in a fashion which [b]you[/b] saw fit. There were a lot of ingredients to the recipe that led to this disbandment notice - none of which you seem to know anything about, despite my having told you what they were. You preach about responsibility and traits of good leadership and at the same time, you kick dirt all over a disbanded alliance in full view of your alliance and your allies, thinking that your [b]own[/b] standards seem to apply to another sovereign alliance's standards. And I hope you're disappointed too.

I sure as hell don't see you going and trying to impose your standards on alliances that [b]haven't[/b] disbanded. So, since we're discussing leadership and responsibility and all, what does all of this say about [b]your[/b] leadership qualities? You don't have to answer that - everyone who's been following this topic already knows.

Nobody cares if you think that notice should have been given to BCOM's displaced members. Now, I'm going to ask again, as nicely as I can, to let BCOM rest in peace. You're quickly making a name for yourself in here, and you're drawing negative attention on yourself and on those that support you. Do you think you can handle such a simple request? Your objections were noted and responded to in a thorough and lightning fast manner. At this point, there is no reason for you to continue kicking dirt and making a fool of yourself...
[/quote]

Sorry, had to run to school and deal with college issues, so my apologies that I wasn't fast enough to respond to your previous message. Truth be told, I really don't care about what you did, but I don't care for your method either. It's not a matter of kicking up dirt or whatever you choose to call it. The only fact here is that we disagree on the way things were handled. You're right, you were in the mix, and I was not. The fact that there are a couple of former BCOM members that have visited our IRC fairly frequently, or that we feel we got a great member out of somebody who is claimed to be in a pool of people where "nobody did anything" are entirely moot points. You don't want to be judged for what you did by outsiders who weren't there, fine. Nonetheless, I refuse to agree with the choice of creating an original post in this topic in short saying "tech raiders, have fun."

I do not challenge the sovereignty of BCOM to enact it's own choice to disband. However, I do also support the sovereign right of other alliances to choose to protect that AA, which my own alliance did for some time. Left and right however, you have challenged the right of those alliances to protect an alliance of which you are no longer a member, even so much as to offer BCOM's members to find new homes... time that you did not allot to them in your abrupt disbandment.

If my friends and allies do not share so much as the same cause as I do, then so be it. I don't feel that it's your place alone to ask that nobody speak of BCOM again. You have found a new home. That much was sorted before this topic was ever posted I think, as I don't believe you would have posted such an inviting message to prospective attackers. This makes you a self-serving individual, of who left their alliance their alliance hanging when things weren't going their way. You can spin it however you want, but ultimately, that is the perception that you gave others by choosing such a rapid way to disband and invite the hounds in to feed on the remains of your brothers-in-arms.

Despite all that, and to return to my point, you are in no place to say that I am unrespecting of an alliances sovereignty simply because I chose to take part in protecting a disbanded alliance against the wishes of a former member of that alliance. Blackstone Commission is no longer under your control, therefore you are no longer the single point of contact to determine its sovereignty. If it makes me look like a moron to say so, then so be it. If others that support my position change their mind about supporting my position based on what I've said so be it. Right isn't always popular, and popularity doesn't make you right. So your argument is based on some serious logical fallacies.

Please come again.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Moe Szyslak

[Georgelopez]

I did plenty for Blackstone Commission, But do I get any credit for it? No.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Georgelopez

[PotFace]

[quote name='Moe Szyslak' timestamp='1294188884' post='2563662']
<snip> a whole lot of nothin'..
[/quote]

Well, I didn't figure you could let it rest.

At no point in time did I ask everyone to not protect BCOM's displaced members. I thought I was pretty clear on that. My position was, and still is, each to their own. If they get protection, great. If not, oh well. Since BCOM has disbanded, it's no longer my place to determine what happens with those nations. I feel like I'm having to repeat everything that I've said to you, and it's getting pretty annoying. While it would seem that it's good to see you disagree, it would only be good if it would lead to some sort of a conclusion here. However, you seem to be incapable of reading, learning, and applying. That's not my fault. It's yours. And round and round we go, everything that you seem to think is "fact" is something that I've already addressed and explained.

It doesn't take a political scientist to figure out that once BCOM disbanded, it lost its sovereignty. However, BCOM was still an alliance when I made the choice to disband. That means that the manner in which it disbanded wasn't up to you. And that seems to be where you've concentrated your efforts. You had no say in the matter. You were left standing in the back of the line. Poor you. Maybe you should have posted the disbandment notice for me...

Oh, and Georgelopez stuck with me all the way through. He was the only one that did. He didn't do much else besides hang out on IRC, a little recruiting here and there (our most active members were courtesy of him), and sent out some alliance PMs. He made some art as well. Sorry about that George, it wasn't on purpose.

Anyhow, Moe, put a cork in it already, will ya please?

[Georgelopez]

[quote name='PotFace' timestamp='1294192481' post='2563723']
Well, I didn't figure you could let it rest.

At no point in time did I ask everyone to not protect BCOM's displaced members. I thought I was pretty clear on that. My position was, and still is, each to their own. If they get protection, great. If not, oh well. Since BCOM has disbanded, it's no longer my place to determine what happens with those nations. I feel like I'm having to repeat everything that I've said to you, and it's getting pretty annoying. While it would seem that it's good to see you disagree, it would only be good if it would lead to some sort of a conclusion here. However, you seem to be incapable of reading, learning, and applying. That's not my fault. It's yours. And round and round we go, everything that you seem to think is "fact" is something that I've already addressed and explained.

It doesn't take a political scientist to figure out that once BCOM disbanded, it lost its sovereignty. However, BCOM was still an alliance when I made the choice to disband. That means that the manner in which it disbanded wasn't up to you. And that seems to be where you've concentrated your efforts. You had no say in the matter. You were left standing in the back of the line. Poor you. Maybe you should have posted the disbandment notice for me...

Oh, and Georgelopez stuck with me all the way through. He was the only one that did. He didn't do much else besides hang out on IRC, a little recruiting here and there (our most active members were courtesy of him), and sent out some alliance PMs. He made some art as well. Sorry about that George, it wasn't on purpose.

Anyhow, Moe, put a cork in it already, will ya please?
[/quote]

You basically [b]told[/b] people to raid us.

[PotFace]

[quote name='Georgelopez' timestamp='1294192712' post='2563730']
You basically [b]told[/b] people to raid us.
[/quote]


Well, if that's how you want to look at it, sure. I waited for 4 days to give you some advanced notice, but, you weren't on IRC the whole time. I sent you a PM, but you didn't get it in time, apparently. When you're active, you're informed. When you're inactive, you get surprised. Cause and effect. Sorry you got tossed to the sharks - you're the only one that didn't deserve it. And I'll admit that was a mistake on my part.

But I have no remorse for the others. Zero.

[Future]

[quote name='PotFace' timestamp='1294192481' post='2563723']

Oh, and Georgelopez stuck with me all the way through. He was the only one that did. He didn't do much else besides hang out on IRC, a little recruiting here and there (our most active members were courtesy of him), and sent out some alliance PMs. He made some art as well. Sorry about that George, it wasn't on purpose.

Anyhow, Moe, put a cork in it already, will ya please?
[/quote]

Thats funny how you made it sound like he did very little. Whenever I talked to him he would always talk about ur alliance. I [b]know[/b] he did more then you say. Then you say he wasn't on IRC so you couldn't notify him. He was and is always on there. You were never on. When I joined I was on there every day. You weren't on and I had only heard from you once. That was on forums about being masked.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Future

[PotFace]

[quote name='Future' timestamp='1294193255' post='2563746']
Thats funny how you made it sound like he did very little. Whenever I talked to him he would always talk about ur alliance. I [b]know[/b] he did more then you say. Then you say wasn't on IRC so you couldn't notify him. He was and is always on there. You were never on. When I joined I was on there every day. You weren't on and I had only heard from you once. That was on forums about being masked.
[/quote]

That must have been several months ago when RL was killing me and I had placed command of BCOM into Hadrian and Tiberious's hands. It gets us all. But when it does, I make sure to let someone know, and it's not on a permanent basis. I also make sure to tie up loose ends too, when it's for the best.

And George, do me a favor and please brief this guy as to exactly who all did what, since he's so interested.... tell the truth...

[Georgelopez]

[quote name='PotFace' timestamp='1294193511' post='2563753']
That must have been several months ago when RL was killing me and I had placed command of BCOM into Hadrian and Tiberious's hands. It gets us all. But when it does, I make sure to let someone know, and it's not on a permanent basis. I also make sure to tie up loose ends too, when it's for the best.

And George, do me a favor and please brief this guy as to exactly who all did what, since he's so interested.... tell the truth...
[/quote]

[i]This guy[/i] was a previous member of tha alliance. I have no idea why you assume i lied to him. I welcomed him into the alliance, thats all. Everything else he saw on his own. Clearly he saw me on the forums and IRC. Not you.

[Future]

[quote name='PotFace' timestamp='1294193511' post='2563753']
That must have been several months ago when RL was killing me and I had placed command of BCOM into Hadrian and Tiberious's hands. It gets us all. But when it does, I make sure to let someone know, and it's not on a permanent basis. I also make sure to tie up loose ends too, when it's for the best.

And George, do me a favor and please brief this guy as to exactly who all did what, since he's so interested.... tell the truth...
[/quote]

I don't think you can count. Two weeks and several months is a big difference. Shows how much [b]you[/b] got on and acknowledged us....

[PotFace]

[quote name='Future' timestamp='1294193906' post='2563762']
I don't think you can count. Two weeks and several months is a big difference. Shows how much [b]you[/b] got on and acknowledged us....
[/quote]

Gee, I guess I was busy with everything else. I'm not a superhuman, you know.

[Georgelopez]

PotFace, I respect you, and I always will. You taught me everything I know about the game. I don't like the way you ended things with BCOM, but I guess we can't change that.

[Future]

[quote name='PotFace' timestamp='1294193970' post='2563763']
Gee, I guess I was busy with everything else. I'm not a superhuman, you know.
[/quote]

But in your previous posts you made it sound like your always on. I don't know if that was just me or not. Saying everyone but you were inactive...

[PotFace]

[quote name='Future' timestamp='1294194091' post='2563769']
But in your previous posts you made it sound like your always on. I don't know if that was just me or not. Saying everyone but you were inactive...
[/quote]

No, George was the go-to IRC guy. That's what teamwork is all about. Me and George were the only two active BCOM members by the time we disbanded. I did a hell of a lot more actual work, as far as taking tallies go, but I knew that he had IRC under control, which freed me up to handle the board. I was on IRC quite a bit myself as well, and the best way to get in touch with me was by query. I might have stayed logged in to IRC a few weeks at a time, but I wasn't on there since BCOM's DoE, if that's what you're getting to...

Edited January 5, 2011 by PotFace

[PotFace]

I've taken the liberty of unlocking the BCOM board and posting a public disclosure of December's admin log (with IPs removed, of course). Maybe that will paint a better picture for some of you....

http://blackstonecommission.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1025

[Andover]

[quote name='PotFace' timestamp='1294199204' post='2563899']
I've taken the liberty of unlocking the BCOM board and posting a public disclosure of December's admin log (with IPs removed, of course). Maybe that will paint a better picture for some of you....

http://blackstonecommission.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1025
[/quote]


whoopty fricken do, so the only one doing admin stuff was you, this doesnt really prove much considering you and probably 1 other person where probably the only ones with Admin access. Besides, you already stated you set up the forum and everything and this connfirms that, good for you, want a cookie?

I dont have a problem with how you ran your alliance, but the way you disbanded was very distasteful and not done very well.

[PotFace]

[quote name='Andover' timestamp='1294202371' post='2563962']
whoopty fricken do, so the only one doing admin stuff was you, this doesnt really prove much considering you and probably 1 other person where probably the only ones with Admin access. Besides, you already stated you set up the forum and everything and this connfirms that, good for you, want a cookie?

I dont have a problem with how you ran your alliance, but the way you disbanded was very distasteful and not done very well.
[/quote]


It's the admin log. It logs everything. Everytime someone logs on, it's in there. You might be confused because it's mostly me that you see in that list. Had you actually looked it over, you would have probably seen Georgie and a few diplos logon, and you wouldn't have jumped to conclusions like that. And like you've done with virtually every other statement you've made here.

[nippy]

Boys, boys, boys....holy crap. Just let it die peacefully. It's already over and done with, and the scene you're perpetuating is kind of getting ridiculous.

[PotFace]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1294204003' post='2563984']
Boys, boys, boys....holy crap. Just let it die peacefully. It's already over and done with, and the scene you're perpetuating is kind of getting ridiculous.
[/quote]


Nah, what's happened here is that they came gallivanting into this disbandment notice, offered protection to displaced BCOM members (which nobody cares, especially me), and then after making themselves appear to be incompetent in every possible respect, attempted to make up for it by digging this disbandment notice back up again after it was already dead and gone, and kicking dirt all over it in any way they could think of.

I'm just here to continue answering questions and accusations (because that's what OP posters are supposed to do). These guys are here for no other reason than to drag this disbandment notice through the mud as much as they can, despite my pleas to just let it die.

[Moe Szyslak]

[quote name='Georgelopez' timestamp='1294194075' post='2563768']
PotFace, I respect you, and I always will. You taught me everything I know about the game. I don't like the way you ended things with BCOM, but I guess we can't change that.
[/quote]

And that's all I've been saying the whole time. I don't know how things went inside BCOM, and quite frankly it's not a matter of importance to me. All I know of Potface is the first impression I have of the guy. It happens to be the last impression that BCOM members had of him, and it seems I'm not the only one who thinks that somebody basically asked the entire tech raiding world to attack those guys. It's a distasteful way to end things. As far as what happened before that, well I haven't heard any argument from anybody saying that somebody wronged Potface in a way that would justify that move. Okay, so some people were inactive. The alliance disbanded. These things happen, and nobody would bash anybody here on that basis alone. However, the way it was done, and the way it was worded toward the general public seemed classless.

[quote name='PotFace' timestamp='1294192481' post='2563723']
At no point in time did I ask everyone to not protect BCOM's displaced members.[/quote]

But you've made multiple posts in this topic in response to protection of BCOM members calling it a worthless venture, pointless, a waste of time, and using phrases like "nothing to gain" right? Even if you don't ask people not to do something, you can still be a party to discouraging such activity and belittling the efforts of those alliances that choose to offer said protection right? Isn't that about the approach that you're coming after me for? I mean, I never said you were a bad alliance leader, or at least I don't recall saying that. I think the approach that you took with the disbandment was distasteful, and that you let your people down, but one action doesn't speak to who are. Your rather defensive nature in your replies speaks volumes however. Your recognition of George's efforts after clearly stating multiple times that there was not a single person capable of leading the alliance or you wouldn't have disbanded the alliance, and that nobody other than yourself did anything, and then your reverse statements that George was the go-to guy for certain aspects of the alliance seemed a bit contradictory. Would you mind clarifying that position for me please, so I can get a better understanding of the whole picture? Cause now I'm not sure if there was nobody capable of taking over or doing anything at all, or if there might have been people that did have the ability to handle things.

[quote name='PotFace' timestamp='1294204447' post='2563989']
Nah, what's happened here is that they came gallivanting into this disbandment notice, offered protection to displaced BCOM members (which nobody cares, especially me), and then after making themselves appear to be incompetent in every possible respect, attempted to make up for it by digging this disbandment notice back up again after it was already dead and gone, and kicking dirt all over it in any way they could think of.

I'm just here to continue answering questions and accusations (because that's what OP posters are supposed to do). These guys are here for no other reason than to drag this disbandment notice through the mud as much as they can, despite my pleas to just let it die.
[/quote]

ok, this is too good to let go. When was this topic dead? If you don't care about people offering protection to displaced BCOM members then why the replies to the protection notices? Who's making accusations exactly? If you want to let it die, the best way is to just stop replying. Usually when there's no 2-way discussion happening, topics die fast. Just a thought.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Moe Szyslak

[PotFace]

[quote name='Moe Szyslak' timestamp='1294204620' post='2563993']
Your recognition of George's efforts after clearly stating multiple times that there was not a single person capable of leading the alliance or you wouldn't have disbanded the alliance, and that nobody other than yourself did anything, and then your reverse statements that George was the go-to guy for certain aspects of the alliance seemed a bit contradictory. Would you mind clarifying that position for me please, so I can get a better understanding of the whole picture? Cause now I'm not sure if there was nobody capable of taking over or doing anything at all, or if there might have been people that did have the ability to handle things.
[/quote]

Thank you for proving my point.

Anyways, Georgie was capable of handling IRC. He was not capable of running an alliance. Does that make sense?


Edit:

[quote]
ok, this is too good to let go. When was this topic dead? If you don't care about people offering protection to displaced BCOM members then why the replies to the protection notices? Who's making accusations exactly? If you want to let it die, the best way is to just stop replying. Usually when there's no 2-way discussion happening, topics die fast. Just a thought.
[/quote]

I am the poster of the OP. You come here with questions and accusations. I am here to address them. As long as there's nothing to be addressed, the topic will die. That's usually how they work. Are you new to this?

Edited January 5, 2011 by PotFace

[Moe Szyslak]

Are you?

The more you continue to discuss things, the more of a discussion that there is going to be on an issue. Simple conversational science. If you weren't so stuck on replying to everything that got said, what you claim you want would happen. This topic would die quickly. But as I said, as long as there is no 2-way conversation. You say you want the topic dead, but you say you have to reply to everything that there is to be addressed. Then you address other people in a way that they're expected to reply. You're defeating your own purpose.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Moe Szyslak

[PotFace]

[quote name='Moe Szyslak' timestamp='1294207061' post='2564072']
Are you?

Don't feed the little guys that live under the bridge, I promise, they'll go away.
[/quote]


Well, thanks for admitting to the cyberverse what your intentions are here. You have just lost the right to complain about classlessness and tastelessness. And with that, I can now have you dealt with.