LE DOW

[infinite citadel]

[quote name='Thomasj_tx' timestamp='1285439385' post='2464406']
Let's take a look at your premise:

- LE had orders to not use nukes on TPC.
- Infinite Citadel was watching the war declarations (but not fighting his existing wars), constantly refreshing to see if there were any declarations from any other alliances.
- After numerous refreshes, detected a declaration by hawkeyee at exactly 12:00:25 AM (not 12:00:26 or :27)
- Made the decision to go against LE orders and launch a nuke
- Switched from the war declarations screen to his war screen
- Select his target, select launch a nuke, and launch it


All in a matter of 6 seconds or less.


As I said, that guy has near super human reflexes. I tip my hat to him.
[/quote]


Having multiple tabs for TE open at once makes that easier than you think!

Super Human Reflexes help too

[sarasate]

OB (me) feels degraded... I'M SORRY, OK!? OB's kinda full of new members (if you haven't noticed our jump from 15 to 61 members this round-surprising for an alliance w/ super-reflexes), so we're not that good with wars! and we've been in 3 already! so please, STOP JABBING ON ABOUT HOW WE SUCK AT WARS!

[infinite citadel]

[quote name='dogbite' timestamp='1285374153' post='2463722']
Well you hit them to right? They would have been on your target list.
Im sure they did not run till the war started.
[/quote]


I believe we hit the ones that we caught switching (atleast I'm warring one right now).

[Son of Taeper]

[quote name='Roi Loup' timestamp='1285461722' post='2464718']
im sorry but idk who has two computer screens dedicated to cn i mean its not like much happens on it in 24 hours
[/quote]

I always use 2 in my study when we're fighting.
(I have been known to use 3 though)

[ADude]

[quote name='sarasate' timestamp='1285479957' post='2464942']
OB (me) feels degraded... I'M SORRY, OK!? OB's kinda full of new members (if you haven't noticed our jump from 15 to 61 members this round-surprising for an alliance w/ super-reflexes), so we're not that good with wars! and we've been in 3 already! so please, STOP JABBING ON ABOUT HOW WE SUCK AT WARS!
[/quote]

Don't get riled up about it, Shake it off and keep doing what you do, the only thing that really matters is what your alliance thinks not what other people think, besides posting things like this will only inflame it.

[Son of Taeper]

[quote name='sarasate' timestamp='1285479957' post='2464942']
OB (me) feels degraded... I'M SORRY, OK!? OB's kinda full of new members (if you haven't noticed our jump from 15 to 61 members this round-surprising for an alliance w/ super-reflexes), so we're not that good with wars! and we've been in 3 already! so please, STOP JABBING ON ABOUT HOW WE SUCK AT WARS!
[/quote]
I missed the "suck at wars" post so I need a pointer.
OB are doing a fine job in meeting their obligation to TPC and I have much respect for the way they are carrying out assigned target destruction.
Many alliances get ghosts but how they are dealt with is up to the alliance in question.
Much respect again and keep up the good work.

[Owney OSullivan]

Ahem, that's O'Sullivan if you please, the apostrophe is optional though, after all this is the apostrophe war. Admin doesn't like them.

Anyone have stats?

[Son of Taeper]

[quote name='Owney OSullivan' timestamp='1285499734' post='2465083']
Ahem, that's O'Sullivan if you please, the apostrophe is optional though, after all this is the apostrophe war. Admin doesn't like them.

Anyone have stats?
[/quote]

And Son of Taeper if you please.
I answer to SoT on OWF if it's easier but the guys on LE boards call me Son.
"son" would not work on OWF and taeper is about as bad.
We need caps in on the apostrophe war as well Mr O'Sullivan

Back to the point I think you were trying to make, what stats were you after?
Pipe files are easy to access by anyone. Our war plan with TPC is doubtful to be published, and OB stats could best be published by them.
A quick check shows 50% of TPC and OB in A.
As OB was an incoming attack on an alliance already engaged in war I think LE are holding out very well as the nation count is (now) 2-1 with only about 25% of LE in A.
Feel free to post exact stats yourself.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Son of Taeper

[Burning Glory]

[quote name='Son of Taeper' timestamp='1285398745' post='2464098']
As Janitor says, the list went through a process and was being tweeked for a few days. The list was handed over for final verification about 12 hours before update which gave about 10 hours to finalize. That list had most of our top guys fighting over their heads but obviously had to be changed it at the last moment.
Just as well it was changed in a hurry as the original list gave no provision to defend against raiders and we are in a much better position to do that now.
Talking of which, can anyone point me to the OB DoW? I thought I was being raided to start with but we appear to have a 63 nation alliance on our back in addition to the 109 TPC guys we hit.
[/quote]

Well here's the low down....All the nukes TPC was holding were by ghost and most of our top 20 were ghost. When they left all but like five nukes left with them as well as our AVG NS dropped.
In reality had they been on the target list to start, war protocol would dictate that they be hit anyway as the attacking nation would/should have no idea that they are not leaving to build for the war.
They were all black nations....WE are blue. It is very odd that they left (they as in every single ghost we had on black) they day of LE's plans to attack TPC.
I'm not pointing fingers but the odds of this being a coincidence is very high, so It would appear that someone has some inside info.

TPC has never ran from a fight, and we don't mind being the under dog but if you guys at 54 nukes to 5 and an AVG NS being over 1200 higher than ours, its a bit hard to swallow that after the ghost left you still felt us just as good of or equal of a fight as say PS or another AA that held over 20 nukes.

Far as OB, well only 29 of there possible 90 + war slots have gone to attacking LE and as per my post the first time your guys attacked us TPC has a lot of nations in college and as this round happens to be
coinsiding with the start up of school, our 109 nations are more like 70. TPC is just not as active as we normally are under these circumstances.

[quote name='Thomasj_tx' timestamp='1285439385' post='2464406']
Let's take a look at your premise:

- LE had orders to not use nukes on TPC.
- Infinite Citadel was watching the war declarations (but not fighting his existing wars), constantly refreshing to see if there were any declarations from any other alliances.
- After numerous refreshes, detected a declaration by hawkeyee at exactly 12:00:25 AM (not 12:00:26 or :27)
- Made the decision to go against LE orders and launch a nuke
- Switched from the war declarations screen to his war screen
- Select his target, select launch a nuke, and launch it


All in a matter of 6 seconds or less.


As I said, that guy has near super human reflexes. I tip my hat to him.
[/quote]

lol, go figure


[quote name='Son of Taeper' timestamp='1285451029' post='2464580']
I figured a round or two back that some guys like fun on my account.
You need to speak to Red Baron on the nuke Q but a lot of TPC nuke did go missing as if by magic.
I think LE are looking into the matter.
[/quote]

problem solved ^^^^^^

BG

[sarasate]

hm. ironically, one of the ghosts may have jumped to OB before we declared war on LE.

[Son of Taeper]

[quote name='Burning Glory' timestamp='1285563113' post='2465848']
Well here's the low down....All the nukes TPC was holding were by ghost and most of our top 20 were ghost. When they left all but like five nukes left with them as well as our AVG NS dropped.
In reality had they been on the target list to start, war protocol would dictate that they be hit anyway as the attacking nation would/should have no idea that they are not leaving to build for the war.
[/quote]
With respect, LE were hardly going to know they were ghost and asking for a list of TPC ghosts may have given the game away
The target list was re-written at the last moment and I would imagine some names would have to be omited.
How many times have any of us tech raided a none nation only to find they just swapped out to a major alliance?
[quote name='Burning Glory' timestamp='1285563113' post='2465848']
They were all black nations....WE are blue. It is very odd that they left (they as in every single ghost we had on black) they day of LE's plans to attack TPC.
I'm not pointing fingers but the odds of this being a coincidence is very high, so It would appear that someone has some inside info.
[/quote]
All nations that were on the list that I was given were targets regardless of color. To be honest, I hid all info that was irrelevant to what I was doing with it. This can be proven by looking at the TPC nations that are NOT on blue but have been hit by LE. (I think TPC still has 10 on Black and 1 on Aqua.
It would be interesting to know where the other guys went.
[quote name='Burning Glory' timestamp='1285563113' post='2465848']
TPC has never ran from a fight, and we don't mind being the under dog but if you guys at 54 nukes to 5 and an AVG NS being over 1200 higher than ours, its a bit hard to swallow that after the ghost left you still felt us just as good of or equal of a fight as say PS or another AA that held over 20 nukes.
[/quote]
True, TPC have never run from a fight which may be a reason they were targeted.
On the nuke issue, I wasn't counting them (on either side). I was aware of them and requested they be dealt with.
Avg ns was also not a priority for what I was doing on the sheet. I had a list of targets that had to be taken down. Individual ns I did take into account but only recall the (assumed) TPC guys at the top were going to be a big problem as we didn't have enough guys to kill them off.
I wasn't aware anyone had left, I was working to the provided list.
[quote name='Burning Glory' timestamp='1285563113' post='2465848']
Far as OB, well only 29 of there possible 90 + war slots have gone to attacking LE and as per my post the first time your guys attacked us TPC has a lot of nations in college and as this round happens to be
coinsiding with the start up of school, our 109 nations are more like 70. TPC is just not as active as we normally are under these circumstances.
[/quote]
Ah, OB. It would have been nice to have known TPC were going to lose some guys and that OB would jump in.
In fact, it would have just been nice to know OB would jump in.
I'm sure some LE were aware they might, but they were not on the list unfortunately or we might see a lot more of them in A.
They currently have 59 members (sure that was higher when OB declared ) and 18 in A (19 if we include the incoming guy that I just saw to A ). 59 x 3 = 177 war slots and as the attacking nation that is the figure I would prefer to use. The new guy that just joined may not have been taken into your calcs and any guys that left since war started may not either. Problem is, like our battle sheet, it's very hard to keep track of last minute stuff.
Another current figure I have on OB is 57 members which equates to 171 available slots so I'm a little confused myself.

Most respect to you BG, just trying to clarify that it looked very fair when we started and that I for one do not have a problem with OB jumping in.

On a sidenote, I did see a request from a TPC member for Duckroll to jump in on TPC side. It would be interesting to see how that turned out as it would make the membership count 210 v 77 (about 3 on 1) and 37 v 42 nukes

[Einer]

So, apparently LE felt the only way they could put my poor little 1500NS nation into anarchy was with a nuke. Sad. Very sad.

(Combined NS of my six opponents: 17,500 )

(Not counting the guy that I anarchied and then peaced out with. My anonymous pal owes Oxnose 80 infra for that one...)

Edited September 27, 2010 by Einer

[Son of Taeper]

[quote name='Einer' timestamp='1285592530' post='2465971']
So, apparently LE felt the only way they could put my poor little 1500NS nation into anarchy was with a nuke. Sad. Very sad.

(Combined NS of my six opponents: 17,500 )

(Not counting the guy that I anarchied and then peaced out with. My anonymous pal owes Oxnose 80 infra for that one...)
[/quote]
Not so my friend.
To see you in A with a nuke messed my plans up big time.
I'm not saying you were not worth a nuke, but perhaps with a few more hours we could have saved the cost.
Your name rings a bell though. Sure you stole a nuke then nuked me in a nuke free war a round or two back.?
Let's not dwindle on that though.
I think you should rejoice in the fact that someone, somewhere, thought you worthy of a nuke.
The cost to LE is substantial for a "poor little 1500NS nation" but I am confused how they got so low as to only be able to hit you. Always thought we had to be way higher than that to be in range.
Top 5%?
Need to go check some.

Sidenote on combined NS - Always hard to fathom. Of my 3 outgoing and 3 incoming all are in A except 1 incoming,
I won't count the NS for you because we fight as a team and I cannot take credit for what others have done.
Likewise the A's. I might see them into A and chalk them up on the cockpit, but the hard work is done by all of LE,
Aircrew, Ground crew, Maintenance.

[infinite citadel]

[quote name='Einer' timestamp='1285592530' post='2465971']
So, apparently LE felt the only way they could put my poor little 1500NS nation into anarchy was with a nuke. Sad. Very sad.

(Combined NS of my six opponents: 17,500 )

(Not counting the guy that I anarchied and then peaced out with. My anonymous pal owes Oxnose 80 infra for that one...)
[/quote]


God forbid we try to take out our opponents as quickly as possible

[Thomasj_tx]

I did some snooping around (bored) and found that there are 6 nations with nukes that have switched AA's Since Sept 22.

Ruler Name - Alliance - Alliance Date - Team
Bored - Cream Crackers - 9/23/2010 11:59:47 PM - Blue
Colossi - WAR IS REAL - [b]9/23/2010 12:30:04 AM[/b] - Blue
proyal - Poison Clan - 9/25/2010 10:33:26 PM - Blue
Sammith The Wiseth - Mordor United - 9/25/2010 4:36:56 PM - Blue
Teh Legien - American Nations - [b]9/22/2010 11:41:58 PM[/b] - Blue
zoomx3 - Fartum - [b]9/23/2010 5:00:14 PM[/b] - Black


I could only find records of wars from their previous AA's on Colossi
who was in Blackwater on 9/15 and Sammith The Wiseth who was None on 8/23.

Considering the LE DoW was on 23 September 2010 - 11:48 PM, it appears that Colossi, Teh Legien and zoomx3 switched AA's before the DoW/attacks. The other three switched after.

Now there could be other nations that switched during that timeframe, but no longer have nukes.

So I looked at nations with alliance dates during the 24 hours before the DoW. There are 24 nations in that group. None of them are even close to being nuke capable, with the highest one with NS of 2,304.92 and that nation has only 2,822 Attacking Casualities and 0 Defending and according to his chart is at his all time high NS level.

So basically it looks like there were three nations with nukes that switched AA's during the 24 hour period before the DoW, 2 on the Blue Team and 1 on the Black team. We can't tell from which AA they switched, except for Colossi who was on Blackwater as recently as 9/15.

And on a final note, zoomx3 was attacked by 3 LE nations during their initial blitz even though he switched his AA about 7 hours before the attacks.


Told you I was bored!

[Son of Taeper]

[quote name='Thomasj_tx' timestamp='1285606304' post='2466060']
I did some snooping around (bored) and found that there are 6 nations with nukes that have switched AA's Since Sept 22.

Ruler Name - Alliance - Alliance Date - Team
Bored - Cream Crackers - 9/23/2010 11:59:47 PM - Blue
Colossi - WAR IS REAL - [b]9/23/2010 12:30:04 AM[/b] - Blue
proyal - Poison Clan - 9/25/2010 10:33:26 PM - Blue
Sammith The Wiseth - Mordor United - 9/25/2010 4:36:56 PM - Blue
Teh Legien - American Nations - [b]9/22/2010 11:41:58 PM[/b] - Blue
zoomx3 - Fartum - [b]9/23/2010 5:00:14 PM[/b] - Black


I could only find records of wars from their previous AA's on Colossi
who was in Blackwater on 9/15 and Sammith The Wiseth who was None on 8/23.

Considering the LE DoW was on 23 September 2010 - 11:48 PM, it appears that Colossi, Teh Legien and zoomx3 switched AA's before the DoW/attacks. The other three switched after.

Now there could be other nations that switched during that timeframe, but no longer have nukes.

So I looked at nations with alliance dates during the 24 hours before the DoW. There are 24 nations in that group. None of them are even close to being nuke capable, with the highest one with NS of 2,304.92 and that nation has only 2,822 Attacking Casualities and 0 Defending and according to his chart is at his all time high NS level.

So basically it looks like there were three nations with nukes that switched AA's during the 24 hour period before the DoW, 2 on the Blue Team and 1 on the Black team. We can't tell from which AA they switched, except for Colossi who was on Blackwater as recently as 9/15.

And on a final note, zoomx3 was attacked by 3 LE nations during their initial blitz even though he switched his AA about 7 hours before the attacks.


Told you I was bored!
[/quote]
I'm none the wiser as I was only assigning initial targets prior to the final publication. My level of interest was such that I never even looked at who I had assigned myself to attack , only that I had 3 nations.
The last minute revamp gave me I target that I doubt I would have assigned to myself as I like to fight on all slots.

If my understanding is correct, we have a bunch of high NS guys roaming the game. A team color change would cost them. Are we sure they were all on black?

[Einer]

Sorry Taeper, you must be thinking of someone else. And it's easy to rack up the NS imbalance when your opponents declare right at the 2:1 NS limit. (Not all, I'll note, but 2 of 3.)

Infinite - not necessarily challenging the methods, just the manhood of my specific opponents. After all, they had three days to get it done the old fashioned way...

[dogbite]

Most of the ghost registered and i have there game links but that dont matter. The real problem was the ones at the top that are true TPC must be sleeping. If you cant hit the top you cant win the war. Also i never asked duckroll for help but i did ask a few.

Edited September 28, 2010 by dogbite

[sarasate]

To anyone's who's confused about Villa de Tequila of OB attacking Vasionland of TPC... I honestly don't know what he's doing. I've told him to stop, I've apologized to the TPC guy. still haven't peace out, and both nations are unresponsive to my messages.
To TPC; I'm sorry.
To Vasionland; I'm sorry.
To Villa; I want to kick you.
To Svalbard of the WAHB who randomly attacked Villa; thanks.

[Burning Glory]

[quote name='Son of Taeper' timestamp='1285583671' post='2465929']
With respect, LE were hardly going to know they were ghost and asking for a list of TPC ghosts may have given the game away
The target list was re-written at the last moment and I would imagine some names would have to be omited.
How many times have any of us tech raided a none nation only to find they just swapped out to a major alliance?

All nations that were on the list that I was given were targets regardless of color. To be honest, I hid all info that was irrelevant to what I was doing with it. This can be proven by looking at the TPC nations that are NOT on blue but have been hit by LE. (I think TPC still has 10 on Black and 1 on Aqua.
It would be interesting to know where the other guys went.

True, TPC have never run from a fight which may be a reason they were targeted.
On the nuke issue, I wasn't counting them (on either side). I was aware of them and requested they be dealt with.
Avg ns was also not a priority for what I was doing on the sheet. I had a list of targets that had to be taken down. Individual ns I did take into account but only recall the (assumed) TPC guys at the top were going to be a big problem as we didn't have enough guys to kill them off.
I wasn't aware anyone had left, I was working to the provided list.

Ah, OB. It would have been nice to have known TPC were going to lose some guys and that OB would jump in.
In fact, it would have just been nice to know OB would jump in.
I'm sure some LE were aware they might, but they were not on the list unfortunately or we might see a lot more of them in A.
They currently have 59 members (sure that was higher when OB declared ) and 18 in A (19 if we include the incoming guy that I just saw to A ). 59 x 3 = 177 war slots and as the attacking nation that is the figure I would prefer to use. The new guy that just joined may not have been taken into your calcs and any guys that left since war started may not either. Problem is, like our battle sheet, it's very hard to keep track of last minute stuff.
Another current figure I have on OB is 57 members which equates to 171 available slots so I'm a little confused myself.

Most respect to you BG, just trying to clarify that it looked very fair when we started and that I for one do not have a problem with OB jumping in.

On a sidenote, I did see a request from a TPC member for Duckroll to jump in on TPC side. It would be interesting to see how that turned out as it would make the membership count 210 v 77 (about 3 on 1) and 37 v 42 nukes
[/quote]

My actual referance was not how many nation were in OB but the number of nations that actually DOW'd on LE as of my post date and time....I counted every war that OB had offensively against LE thus the 29 slots...I just rounded it up to 30 with each nation having 3 attacking slots making it a possible 90 as per my quote in my post.
I actually had no idea that OB was going to jump in and had the war been fair, as in close in NS and nuke count, I'm sure they would have stayed out.

Fact is even since the war started we lost 9 nations due to 25 days of inactivity, of those 9, 4 were really good fighting TPC members "Hero of times" being one of them.
With that said there are or were close to 25 other nations that were over 4 or 5 days inactive..again due to school. and another 10 or so that is 8 + days inactive.
I'm sure it might of looked fairly close prior to the ghost leaving, they gave us over 35 nukes but even with them you still had us by 800 AVG NS and 20 nukes, after
they left we really droped....they real disappointing thing is that even if only have of what i'm stating was true,and with the knowledge that LE had of the ghost leaving, you guys could have picked another battle.....Moot point i guess

The nations that are active are taking out some of LE's best or at the very least bringing them down with them
For the record and as far as I know, the one TPC nation requested that 2 nations help not all of DR.

Anyway, Your honor and a several of LE's memebrs are never questioned by me or doubted.....our 2 alliances have much incommon that way. However, like my self bad decisions are made.No disrespect but, this war was a bad judgement call especially since there are 2 or 3 other AA's of matched ability.

BG.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Burning Glory

[Son of Taeper]

[quote name='sarasate' timestamp='1285641179' post='2466522']
To anyone's who's confused about Villa de Tequila of OB attacking Vasionland of TPC... I honestly don't know what he's doing. I've told him to stop, I've apologized to the TPC guy. still haven't peace out, and both nations are unresponsive to my messages.
To TPC; I'm sorry.
To Vasionland; I'm sorry.
To Villa; I want to kick you.
To Svalbard of the WAHB who randomly attacked Villa; thanks.
[/quote]

Does seem a bit strange.
I saw a TPC guy attacking an OB member (can't remember who it was) and assumed this was an OB defense and Villa was either thinking on his feet or following orders.
OB posted a late DoW so I assume there was no battle plan.
TPC would not have had a plan as they were under attack.

We have about 237 guys from 3 alliances fighting atm so there is bound to be some confusion on all sides.


Rule number 1 in warfare - Know your enemy.

[kongland]

A fascinating story.
One can define it as a "friendly fire". S... happens.

[Son of Taeper]

Friendly fire does occur but it's surprising neither respond to Sarasate (mind if I call you Zig?).
Sure, an OB member might not like being ordered to peace out by a TPC member, and a TPC member might not like being ordered to peace out by an OB member, so maybe (with most respect) your message needs to be changed and both parties need to be mailed by a guy they can trust.
I'm a little bored so I could mail both so we can get the war back on track but I doubt either of them would listen to me.

Perhaps you could make the title of your message a little more official looking (no disrespect again).
I'm no expert, but I would post something like this -
*************************************************

Header *** Please Please Please

Message *** Peace out on all wars and await new orders. Whilst we appreciate your commitment to our alliance and our pact, we have a new target for you.
************************************************
You could post that to both of them without having to go into detail then your war rooms can post the new targets.

Just a thought, (don't even know why I'm suggesting it really other than boredom)

[Son of Taeper]

Hang on a mo, OP TPC war is good. Scrub the last message

Edit - we have a ghost now as well, what is going on?

PrezTwake7 is not ours to the best of my knowledge, Don't waste your bullets on him unless you just want his tech.
He has been messaged in game to get out of our wars so perhaps OB and TPC could take him out before we do.
I don't think he will be defended by LE. but please confirm Baron
Edit 2 Russia is new as well, Not one of ours I think, Ex RE but I recall the name from else where, powerhouse perhaps or ex TPC
Never LE.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Son of Taeper

[Anon1]

Wait now, what's this talk about OB having a battle plan? Psh who uses those anyway?