Curbstomps = Honor?

[The Wizard of Oz]

Yes? I have the war screen to prove it.

Does this war screen show a TPF nation attacking you before you declaration of war 2 weeks ago? OR

Does this war screen show a TPF nation attacking you before you declared on ER?

If you answer yes to either, then lets see it....

Hurray for bringing up dead topics! Technically speaking, I didn't declare war on TPF and TPF didn't declare war on me. I declared war on Aztec and Frostbite (or whoever) declared war on me. I got peace from the two. There was never a war declaration on or from TPF.** (An announcement of a coup does not a declaration of war make.)

Actually, I even remember several government members saying that they weren't even going to worry about me, let alone fight me. So where's this war declaration, for I still haven't seen it up until this point.

Is announcing a coup not an act of war? Is it a sign of peace? Putting on our Tag and attacking Aztec (another TPF ally) is not an act of war? I clearly see why every AA your in folds, I was thinking about the existence of the last 5 AA's you have been in, other then Echo, (which your in the middle of destroying) does "any of the others still play? I know you have your excuses and reasons but do they exist? Is it just me or is there a pattern here?

**Talking like Yoda does not give you the force, FYI

[Lysander]

Perspective is an interesting thing.

From my point of view we are helping prevent a curbstomp by ES of a long-time TPF ally in eyerack. Not to mention helping defend his new alliance from an outside invasion and orchestrated attack by ES. The biggest mistake eyerack has made throughout this entire incident was trusting ES, who has once again proven himself untrustworthy.

So its preventative curb stomping? Still curb stomping. Eyerack never did trust ES in the first place. He let him join, but gov. position? no

We already declared that any nation that supports the overthrow of eyerack will be attacked, this is not new. You're the only one to come forward so far, so you were attacked.

Any other nation that supports you, you can call for help if you want, however again we have on standby military units to deal with that too. This isn't a curbstomp, this is doing exactly what we said we would do. Attack any nation that attempted to coup eyerack, don't be surprised we warned you a good 12 hours before hand.

Keeping your word = honor

Protecting your allies = honor

Dog piling your enemies = common sense

TE = War

Any of this confusing to anyone?

Uhm yeah the part where you use Dog piling instead of Curbstomping to make it sound better. That is, number one, somewhat deceitful and, number two, dishonorable. Its not giving a chance of a fair fight when you know you'll win.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Lysander

[Emperor Stranger]

Ok... let's look at dates This is posted on Oct 9 2009 01:42 PM

This is posted on October 9 2009 4:32 AM

so

A DoW falls into "Law" of sorts, it's a declaration of war, and therefore an acknowledgement of war.

Recognizing a state of war and declaring war are two different things. You struck first without even declaring war. How much of cowards can you guys be?

so.... when did we go back to 1984.. Orwellian time.

As far as anything else goes...

You were warned by the highest authority in TPF, stop playing the victim game, that was posted at 10:37 on the 8th of October, meaning you new about it ( you posted after it ) well before you started this little "poor me" thread.

So I guess my question to you is, can you make some sense before I get back from the store? Should give you a few hours to think of something.

I love TPF, I really do. They not only decide what honor is, but they even choose who our leaders are! Is there anything TPF can't do?!

[Gabryal]

Wrong example? Man, you just can't get this right today, Gabryal. I asked, what if this were MHA? If you were having problems with MHA, would you discuss it with them or would you just immediately declare war on all of MHA? (Note: It is not a coup situation.)

But yes, I see now that TPF chooses the alliance leaders for micros, even if the vast majority of those members within the alliance dislike him. By the way, can I have permission from TPF to be regent in Black? I know that you guys would be pissed if they just decided to throw out the current one and replaced him with me.

Can you please make some sense? I like several members of Black but if they want you, that's on them. You aren't couping anyone if they choose you. However I think any alliance that has you in it is going to have disastrous results, that's just my opinion. As far as diplomatic discussions go, didn't you attempt to circumvent me to talk to Wiz or BG to do just that? Do you think I didn't talk this out with eyerack? Diplomacy took first way before the shooting started.

You could have, and should have, talked to me. Trying to go around me isn't all that bright. You seem to think that I would not hear you out or listen to your side, you attempted to circumvent me last night as well. You failed to do so. It sounds to me like you were the one who didn't want Diplomacy, not us. I'm head of Diplomatic relations for a reason ES, and I can put aside my dislike for someone's actions enough to listen to them ( God knows I did so during the OB/AZTEC problem last round... ouch head hurting at memory.. must... find.. tylenol ).

I still don't understand the first paragraph you made. What does "Wrong example?" mean. When did we declare on all of Echo? I seem to recall just warning people that we would use military force to attack people who attempted to coup ER, we certainly haven't hit any member that hasn't either you, or one of the people that hit ER, or hit one of us. And if you weren't trying to coup eyerack why does your bio say "Leader of Echo" in it?

So what does that first paragraph mean, as it seems to have no truth in it at all?

[Gabryal]

Uhm yeah the part where you use Dog piling instead of Curbstomping to make it sound better. That is, number one, somewhat deceitful and, number two, dishonorable. Its not giving a chance of a fair fight when you know you'll win.

So....

You like giving your enemies a fighting chance, and you've never attacked with an ally, or multiple allies on a target? Is that what you are saying here? This is a War game remember, you do not give your enemies a fighting chance, once you commit to an attack you do so with everything you have at your disposal.. that's why there are nukes in this game

Edited October 9, 2009 by Gabryal

[Lurunin]

Recognizing a state of war and declaring war are two different things. You struck first without even declaring war. How much of cowards can you guys be?

I love TPF, I really do. They not only decide what honor is, but they even choose who our leaders are! Is there anything TPF can't do?!

With all that said, orders have been given to the TPF 3rd battalion to hit any SDF member attacking an ECHO member.

Wouldn't that be considered a DOW? just because TPF isn't declaring war on all of Echo doesn't mean it's not a war against you and your supporters.

[Emperor Stranger]

Is announcing a coup not an act of war? Is it a sign of peace? Putting on our Tag and attacking Aztec (another TPF ally) is not an act of war? I clearly see why every AA your in folds, I was thinking about the existence of the last 5 AA's you have been in, other then Echo, (which your in the middle of destroying) does "any of the others still play? I know you have your excuses and reasons but do they exist? Is it just me or is there a pattern here?

**Talking like Yoda does not give you the force, FYI

By definition, a coup is not an act of war. It is possible to peacefully coup someone. Folger did it to Tiberius. Had Tiberius not struck Folger, there would have been no war.

And just because I have bad luck does not necessarily mean that I am purposefully destroying the alliances I am in. Let's do this in order, shall we?

Fight Club. Fight Club was just starting when it got hit. I didn't even have the chance to really recruit for it. (And recruiting during a curb stomp is just silly.) The only reason why we had more than two members was because two members of it coincidentally were starting it at the same time I was. So yea, Fight Club failed because of a curb stomp three days into the round.

Spartan Defence Force. I was in SDF for a while and it was slowly declining. Are you insinuating that it was my fault that Andrew no longer had the time to run his alliance? Of course I purposefully planted those exams at that exact time!

TPF. I joined TPF and couped it and attacked Aztec. I see TPF is going strong, so enough said.

Spartan Defence Force (again). I am a terrible recruiter, I won't deny that. That along with many of the members leaving after Andrew stepped down, there was very little I could do to stop it from spiraling out of control.

Echo. Eyerack let us in all the while having internal problems with it, then he demotes me for doing the job he failed to do. (Get Echo peace and organize Echo's defense.) He went inactive and I didn't want the alliance that I am in to suffer because of his in-activeness. So technically, it's almost 100% eyerack's fault. He could have said no and saved us all a lot of drama.

So yea, I really do it on purpose, right? I just slaughter my own alliances for fun?

[Lysander]

So....

You like giving your enemies a fighting chance, and you've never attacked with an ally, or multiple allies on a target? Is that what you are saying here? This is a War game remember, you do not give your enemies a fighting chance, once you commit to an attack you do so with everything you have at your disposal.. that's why there are nukes in this game

Yep thats what I am saying. But I was refering to alliance curbstomping, not individual wars, which are very different. Of course I will use everything in my arsenal as an individual, but as a leader of an alliance it would be shameful to go about crushing alliances smaller than us because of someone else's problems.

[Gabryal]

I love TPF, I really do. They not only decide what honor is, but they even choose who our leaders are! Is there anything TPF can't do?!

Get you to stop causing problems for people apparently, oh and I can't stand on my head either. Flying is out of the question, and I suppose I should add telepathy to the list.. anyone know if anyone in TPF is Clairvoyent? I'm guessing not, because if they were I'd never have let you into WOLF. Let's see what else, Telekinesis is straight out the window too.

Oh and I can't keep from smiling when I see a beautiful woman blush.

hmmmm anything else

Well I'm sure other things will come up, with any luck this thread will turn into a long list of things TPF can't do.

[Gabryal]

Yep thats what I am saying. But I was refering to alliance curbstomping, not individual wars, which are very different. Of course I will use everything in my arsenal as an individual, but as a leader of an alliance it would be shameful to go about crushing alliances smaller than us because of someone else's problems.

Well that's very noble of you, were you around when TBH was attacked by RE btw?

[Emperor Stranger]

Can you please make some sense? I like several members of Black but if they want you, that's on them. You aren't couping anyone if they choose you. However I think any alliance that has you in it is going to have disastrous results, that's just my opinion. As far as diplomatic discussions go, didn't you attempt to circumvent me to talk to Wiz or BG to do just that? Do you think I didn't talk this out with eyerack? Diplomacy took first way before the shooting started.

Yes, I did. I knew that you or I would end up throwing insults again, so I told HiddenShadow to not take it up with you. You weren't online, so it's hard for me to take it directly to you, anyways. Oh, and for the record, what was the issue about? GETTING TPF TO STOP TECH RAIDING ECHO. Yea, I mean, that's really comparable to peace negotiations, right?

You could have, and should have, talked to me. Trying to go around me isn't all that bright. You seem to think that I would not hear you out or listen to your side, you attempted to circumvent me last night as well. You failed to do so. It sounds to me like you were the one who didn't want Diplomacy, not us. I'm head of Diplomatic relations for a reason ES, and I can put aside my dislike for someone's actions enough to listen to them ( God knows I did so during the OB/AZTEC problem last round... ouch head hurting at memory.. must... find.. tylenol ).

I am sorry for not talking to someone who was not only not online at the time, but also not talking to the person who obviously hates me. I figured at the time that I would save Echo's image with TPF by not arguing with TPF and talking to someone who had no opinion of me at the time. And really, TPF shouldn't be tech raiding their protected alliances in the first place.

I still don't understand the first paragraph you made. What does "Wrong example?" mean. When did we declare on all of Echo? I seem to recall just warning people that we would use military force to attack people who attempted to coup ER, we certainly haven't hit any member that hasn't either you, or one of the people that hit ER, or hit one of us. And if you weren't trying to coup eyerack why does your bio say "Leader of Echo" in it?

So what does that first paragraph mean, as it seems to have no truth in it at all?

Uhm, no military strikes were made until today, and that wasn't even done by me, yet TPF still blitzes me. It was obviously a declaration of war.

Since I am the only one with enough support in the alliance to become leader, it makes sense that I should be the next leader. Why would we appoint someone who we don't even know?

And my example was if there were problems with an alliance larger than you, what would you do? Just immediately declare war and talk later, or attempt to talk first and fight later?

So....

You like giving your enemies a fighting chance, and you've never attacked with an ally, or multiple allies on a target? Is that what you are saying here? This is a War game remember, you do not give your enemies a fighting chance, once you commit to an attack you do so with everything you have at your disposal.. that's why there are nukes in this game

Fail. Curb stomps aren't fun on either side of the war, typically. If it really is a "game", should it not be played for fun?

[Lysander]

Well that's very noble of you, were you around when TBH was attacked by RE btw?

ty and, no

Edited October 9, 2009 by Lysander

[Pax ME]

this thread is a waste of pixels.

[Emperor Stranger]

Get you to stop causing problems for people apparently, oh and I can't stand on my head either. Flying is out of the question, and I suppose I should add telepathy to the list.. anyone know if anyone in TPF is Clairvoyent? I'm guessing not, because if they were I'd never have let you into WOLF. Let's see what else, Telekinesis is straight out the window too.

Oh and I can't keep from smiling when I see a beautiful woman blush.

hmmmm anything else

Well I'm sure other things will come up, with any luck this thread will turn into a long list of things TPF can't do.

I was referring to TPF, not you yourself. And nos, it's not TPF's prerogative to control me. The harder you try, the more I will rebel. That's just how it works.

[Gabryal]

By definition, a coup is not an act of war. It is possible to peacefully coup someone. Folger did it to Tiberius. Had Tiberius not struck Folger, there would have been no war.

And just because I have bad luck does not necessarily mean that I am purposefully destroying the alliances I am in. Let's do this in order, shall we?

Fight Club. Fight Club was just starting when it got hit. I didn't even have the chance to really recruit for it. (And recruiting during a curb stomp is just silly.) The only reason why we had more than two members was because two members of it coincidentally were starting it at the same time I was. So yea, Fight Club failed because of a curb stomp three days into the round.

Spartan Defence Force. I was in SDF for a while and it was slowly declining. Are you insinuating that it was my fault that Andrew no longer had the time to run his alliance? Of course I purposefully planted those exams at that exact time!

TPF. I joined TPF and couped it and attacked Aztec. I see TPF is going strong, so enough said.

Spartan Defence Force (again). I am a terrible recruiter, I won't deny that. That along with many of the members leaving after Andrew stepped down, there was very little I could do to stop it from spiraling out of control.

Echo. Eyerack let us in all the while having internal problems with it, then he demotes me for doing the job he failed to do. (Get Echo peace and organize Echo's defense.) He went inactive and I didn't want the alliance that I am in to suffer because of his in-activeness. So technically, it's almost 100% eyerack's fault. He could have said no and saved us all a lot of drama.

So yea, I really do it on purpose, right? I just slaughter my own alliances for fun?

ooc: Remember when I said "blaming others" was a sign of malignant narcissism? :coo

Let me make a list of points and/or inaccuracies in your statements.

1) It could be that you're just massively incompetent, not that you do it for fun or on purpose ES.

2) For the record you never joined TPF, you ghosted TPF, and declared yourself leader, and then attacked AZTEC, and AZTEC and TPF had a good laugh about it.

So yea, that one you did on purpose.

3) This was hardly a peaceful coup and everyone knew it

4) There was no Coup in RE, Folger was the appointed Emperor and kicked Tibs out. Tibs thought he had a right to do something he didn't have a right to do, so Folger booted him. Since Folger was already the Emperor, no coup, unless you are talking about Tibs trying to take RE back now, but even that's not a coup since he's working from the outside not the inside.

5) If you can't inspire people to stay, what makes you think you are a leader quality at all?

6) It says alot that you were more interested in the position that you were denied, than anything else here. If you look at the IRC logs it is very clear that the reason he demoted you had nothing to do with what you did or didn't do in Echo, but everything to do with the way you act.

[Gabryal]

ty and, no

OK, that explains it. I still think you are noble, naive perhaps ( no insult intended ), but noble. I hope people don't take advantage of that in the future.

[Emperor Stranger]

ooc: Remember when I said "blaming others" was a sign of malignant narcissism? :coo

Let me make a list of points and/or inaccuracies in your statements.

1) It could be that you're just massively incompetent, not that you do it for fun or on purpose ES.

2) For the record you never joined TPF, you ghosted TPF, and declared yourself leader, and then attacked AZTEC, and AZTEC and TPF had a good laugh about it.

So yea, that one you did on purpose.

3) This was hardly a peaceful coup and everyone knew it

4) There was no Coup in RE, Folger was the appointed Emperor and kicked Tibs out. Tibs thought he had a right to do something he didn't have a right to do, so Folger booted him. Since Folger was already the Emperor, no coup, unless you are talking about Tibs trying to take RE back now, but even that's not a coup since he's working from the outside not the inside.

5) If you can't inspire people to stay, what makes you think you are a leader quality at all?

6) It says alot that you were more interested in the position that you were denied, than anything else here. If you look at the IRC logs it is very clear that the reason he demoted you had nothing to do with what you did or didn't do in Echo, but everything to do with the way you act.

I am allergic to OOC hogwash. Keep this IC...

[The Wizard of Oz]

So its preventative curb stomping? Still curb stomping. Eyerack never did trust ES in the first place. He let him join, but gov. position? no

Your questions have already been addressed, scroll back..

Uhm yeah the part where you use Dog piling instead of Curbstomping to make it sound better. That is, number one, somewhat deceitful and, number two, dishonorable. Its not giving a chance of a fair fight when you know you'll win.

So you are are saying any AA that is smaller or weaker then TPF can do whatever they want to us or our allys, in a war game, and we should not respond because its "UNFAIR"?

Recognizing a state of war and declaring war are two different things. You struck first without even declaring war. How much of cowards can you guys be?

You stating you will coup ER was an act of war, initiated before we struck. Also as stated before, TPF has never peaced out with you, this war is ongoing. NO TPF nation attacked you untill you tried to coup TPF. Period!!

This happened before Andrew's decision to appoint you leader of SDF. We never attacked any of the SDF AA

even after said appointment. We considered SDF members our friends. Just not you. Your propaganda to get support to cause a war, on your behalf is funny at best. For all the manipulations of facts, TPF's history proves opposite of your accusations. What does your history show? If I was in another AA looking in on this ridiculous thread, asking myself to take your side or not. I certainly could find a much better cause to fight for.

I love TPF, I really do. They not only decide what honor is, but they even choose who our leaders are! Is there anything TPF can't do?!

Please show where TPF has chose other alliances leadesr. this sir is all LIE. You must be getting disparate.

Edited October 9, 2009 by The Wizard of Oz

[Gabryal]

I am allergic to OOC hogwash. Keep this IC...

ooc: lol then why did you have T Paine report me for not using the "ooc" markers and try to get me in trouble with the mods? :coo

[Emperor Stranger]

So you are are saying any AA that is smaller or weaker then TPF can do whatever they want to us or our allys, in a war game, and we should not respond because its "UNFAIR"?

No? If they attack you, feel free to fight defensively and seek diplomacy. If you are about to declare war, unless it's a strategic strike by your alliance in aid of an ally, then seek diplomacy. Immediately declaring war on someone for being able to grab more power than your ally is just greed. The people in Echo are speaking: They want me as their leader, or at least eyerack out of his position. Eyerack officially has less power in this alliance than I. Technically, I am now the leader of Echo since I have the most internal support. If there was a replacement for me or eyerack, I would immediately support him for leader. I don't want the !@#$ty job of leading an alliance again. But just because I don't want to doesn't mean I won't for the sake of doing what the members want.

Please show where TPF has chose other alliances leader. this sir is all LIE. You must be getting disparate.

They obviously are appointing eyerack as leader. The members of echo said they didn't want him as leader, yet TPF will only recognize him as leader. It will only be a matter of time before eyerack has absolutely no control of this alliance. TPF is just slowing is fall from power.

[Emperor Stranger]

We now have another attacker on eyerack! TPF, your cries for eyerack becoming leader is falling on deaf ears. We don't give a !@#$ if you think that eyerack should be leader. So far, sarasate was the only one to think that eyerack should be leader and another member wanted to remain neutral. So far, there are two nations now at war with eyerack. I have the support, TPF. I do. Eyerack failed to do his duty as leader and failed to act honorably, now he is paying for it. We don't want eyerack as our leader anymore. He had his chance.

Let's now watch as eyerack loses more and more power in Echo.

[Lurunin]

No? If they attack you, feel free to fight defensively and seek diplomacy. If you are about to declare war, unless it's a strategic strike by your alliance in aid of an ally, then seek diplomacy. Immediately declaring war on someone for being able to grab more power than your ally is just greed. The people in Echo are speaking: They want me as their leader, or at least eyerack out of his position. Eyerack officially has less power in this alliance than I. Technically, I am now the leader of Echo since I have the most internal support. If there was a replacement for me or eyerack, I would immediately support him for leader. I don't want the !@#$ty job of leading an alliance again. But just because I don't want to doesn't mean I won't for the sake of doing what the members want.

They obviously are appointing eyerack as leader. The members of echo said they didn't want him as leader, yet TPF will only recognize him as leader. It will only be a matter of time before eyerack has absolutely no control of this alliance. TPF is just slowing is fall from power.

only reason why you have the most support and that there is so much opposition to eyerack is because SDF, a larger alliance, merged into ECHO, a smaller alliance, granting you more supporters than he would have

yes or no?

[Emperor Stranger]

only reason why you have the most support and that there is so much opposition to eyerack is because SDF, a larger alliance, merged into ECHO, a smaller alliance, granting you more supporters than he would have

yes or no?

No. A member recruited by eyerack just joined the fight.

[Burning Glory]

I hereby recognize a state of war with TPF. Even after threats from Black, they still curb stomp me. This is an inner-alliance affair and should have remained that way. Diplomacy should have at least been used before wildly declaring war, anyways. Oh, and curb stomping is not honor. Fighting an alliance less than a tenth your size (less than a hundredth if you include ghosts) is just abusing your power, in my opinion. There's never any honor in abusing your power. Just ask Tiberius.

At any rate, since TPF has decided to attack with only nations twice my size and since I can't fight back because of it, the coup is still on and peace negotiations with Echo will still continue. I will not back down just because TPF is cowardly.

-Emperor Stranger

--Freedom Fighter of Echo

(If anyone gets the movie reference.)

ES you have been given a peaceful solution, leave Echo...And since there are so many SDF nations loyal to you this should have been the easiest and smartest decision

you could have made, if nothing else to save face. You are strongly disliked by the childish BS you do in TE, this is your won doing just as keeping with your plans to

COUP ER and this is the reason you were attacked. You were warned that we would defend ER and his alliance and yet you still rolled with your plans to coup the ER

in his alliance. To me that is just arrogant on your part to think that you can over throw the leader of an AA regardless of what reasons you have.

You can still end this peacefully, simply leave Echo and take whom ever want to follow you back to SDF, this is not unreasonable.

still curb stomping buddy

Have you ever been in WAR, if so then you very well know that in war its very likely that you would face at least 3 nation if not more.

That doesn't make it a curb stomp....especially when we are not targeting the entire AA, just the ones who wish destruction of ECHO.

For the record and in case you were unaware, ES and his followers were warned we would defend ER and given a peaceful solution

to end the whole ball of he said she said BS. Simply go back to SDF

Also the 3rd battalion consist of around 50 nations or less, just under the size of SDF

I know you don't like me. If this was MHA, you would have certainly gone through diplomatic channels before declaring war. Since there is only a few of us fighting, you didn't even bother. QED, you curb stomped us.

But just curious, what happens when someone else joins in the coup?

MHA would never have stooped so low as to what you did and tried to take over an AA that didn't belong to them, and i most certainly would have

done the exact same thing with MHA as i did with you. Doubt me just ask Thai or Wolf yourself, I try very hard to maintain an honorable alliance and be as fair as

i can giving respect to ever one even if I dislike them. Thats not to say that i have not made mistakes, I'm only human, just that i strive for better and learn from

my mistakes....Something you seem to fail at doing.

So its preventative curb stomping? Still curb stomping. Eyerack never did trust ES in the first place. He let him join, but gov. position? no

Uhm yeah the part where you use Dog piling instead of Curb stomping to make it sound better. That is, number one, somewhat deceitful and, number two, dishonorable. Its not giving a chance of a fair fight when you know you'll win.

I've already answered you above, but let me also say that you know only what ES has told you and to commit or back him based on what you think you know is plain ludicrous.

Also TPF doesn't care if we win or lose...WE WAR, thats what we do. If someone can teach us a better way, or expose a weakness to our military GREAT, it makes us all the

better as we are not afraid to lose a WAR or infra huggers. One thing is certain, no matter who the AA is we war against, it will be fun, honorable and win or lose that AA

will know we were there

By definition, a coup is not an act of war. It is possible to peacefully coup someone. Folger did it to Tiberius. Had Tiberius not struck Folger, there would have been no war.

And just because I have bad luck does not necessarily mean that I am purposefully destroying the alliances I am in. Let's do this in order, shall we?

Fight Club. Fight Club was just starting when it got hit. I didn't even have the chance to really recruit for it. (And recruiting during a curb stomp is just silly.) The only reason why we had more than two members was because two members of it coincidentally were starting it at the same time I was. So yea, Fight Club failed because of a curb stomp three days into the round.

Spartan Defence Force. I was in SDF for a while and it was slowly declining. Are you insinuating that it was my fault that Andrew no longer had the time to run his alliance? Of course I purposefully planted those exams at that exact time!

TPF. I joined TPF and couped it and attacked Aztec. I see TPF is going strong, so enough said.

Spartan Defence Force (again). I am a terrible recruiter, I won't deny that. That along with many of the members leaving after Andrew stepped down, there was very little I could do to stop it from spiraling out of control.

Echo. Eyerack let us in all the while having internal problems with it, then he demotes me for doing the job he failed to do. (Get Echo peace and organize Echo's defense.) He went inactive and I didn't want the alliance that I am in to suffer because of his in-activeness. So technically, it's almost 100% eyerack's fault. He could have said no and saved us all a lot of drama.

So yea, I really do it on purpose, right? I just slaughter my own alliances for fun?

They thing between Tibs and Folger is different, it was not a coup. Tibs had steeped down and made folger leader of RE, even made an OWF post about it.

Fact still remains, you have brought down every AA you have been in, and you didn't join TPF you ghosted us and were warned to leave.

Your attacks on AZTEC a TPF ally, did nothing but got you destroyed yet again by a idiotic move on your part.

Now i ask you once again to leave ECHO and end this peacefully, not that i think you will except, just making sure you know you have an exit to the BS you have caused.

BG.

[The Wizard of Oz]

this thread is a waste of pixels.

I so agree, ES talks in circles and its not my turn be a mentor..

No. A member recruited by eyerack just joined the fight.

Does that make a whole 2 now attacking ER, Isn't that curbstomping?

This is silly, do what you want... TPF will do what we have to as well. We will support ER.. Fight us, don't fight us, get ally's, don't get ally's.... It's all good. We don't like you.... All the bawiwing and complaining won't change that. Even if all the AA's in TE supported you.. We would not change our minds. We believe your intentions and skills are questionable as a leader. We haven chosen Eyerack as our friend and ally. If there is going to be fighting over this, lets prepare our soldiers and get it done. The pixels I am wasting on this thread can be better used admiring your nation in anarchy.