The Phoenix Federation Announcement

[Gabryal]

I wish Admin would invent a new tournament-style game that leaves alliance politics at the door, that's all about war and watching your buddys' backs and blowing stuff up, and ... oh wait ...

I suppose we could have steamrolled LE during the LE vs. TF war since TF is our ally... but OH WAIT! that was before WOLF was formed, allies never helped each other before WOLF came along, you might have a point!

[Gabryal]

Hail who always attacks the smaller guys. TPF were better sooner.

AS opposed too.... oh that's right the only one larger than us is RE... our multi-turn ally who nearly everyone of us have a friend with... well I suppose you could always grow your alliance till your bigger than us if you like, we'll take you on then.

[Emperor Stranger]

If only things worked like that, wouldnt the world be such a wonderfull place? As I am sure you will soon discover, it is now how CN politics work.

I am nearly a three year veteran of CN. I am not new to CN politics.

Then why are you even in this bloc? If you arent willing to give a helping hand when it comes to war? Are you truely that afraid of losing your infra that you have to buffer up yourself behind several big alliances just so you know you wont get hit?

Wait, what? Aren't you guys the ones complaining that we are going to destroy everyone elses infrastructure..? I have never seen anyone use this method of argument, sorry if I am a bit confused.

Please provide a full list of all alliances involved in this treaty pact then. And dont say that those listed in the initial announcement are all of them, because two posts or so under it, it is mentioned that not everyone who is in it is in the announcement.

And it was later explained that he meant the allies of TPF were protected by WOLF by extension..?

[Gabryal]

Not to sound offensive or anything but, you havent had much experience with pacts have you? I can assure you, the bigger people control the pact, not you, you are not equal in the pact. I can assure you, at one point or another, the big alliances in the pact will show their true color, unfortunaly for your own alliance and all those other small ones, by then it will be far too late to do anything.

And with that, I will departure from this, like I mentioned I believe we have strayed off-topic enough by now.

Loving again the sudden Telepathy that people on these forums have, "The past is how it was always done, always will be, the only way it can be! *Covers ears and screams LALALALALALA!" I swear if you don't know anything about something, keep your jabbering to yourself. If it was up to people like you we'd still be sitting in caves trying to decide if rocks were edible.

[FurQ]

Counting last round, we hit LE when it was over 800 ns average per nation bigger than us.

We didn't ask for help then either - but you guys did.

See a pattern there? Well, there isn't one.

Jeez so many on your alliance have honor and the will to fight, like Ammon.

Why don't you? They're just pixels.

Mad because we spoiled your blitz against RE?

We like to fight and we have to fight someone - and everyone is smaller than us.

So we fight who we feel like fighting.

This time it's you.

Apparently pointing out the activites of the bloc leaders is whining now and not having honour? LE's track record speaks for itself, and even though your revisionist history likes to claim we called in people to help, the truth is that we didnt talk to anyone when TPF hit us last round. When we were helped without asking, Ammon called off the war due to it being unfair. Look what happened to TF when they tried the same stunt this round and ask yourself if we ever called for back-up. When the odds suddenly went against TPF, BG complained until the war was called off. All of a sudden you guys show up again, this time at double our NS, with 200 extra nukes and backed by half of TE and you want to talk about honour?

We'll fight whenever and whoever, but don't expect us to stay quiet when the bloc is showing a nice pattern of engaging alliances less than half their size and calling it fair. We don't mind bad odds, but when I hear garbage like, "2. Its a fair war, " its funny. This is a tech raid, not a war, but we'll fight until the end, you don't have to worry about that.

[The fox]

I am nearly a three year veteran of CN. I am not new to CN politics.

And yet still you think that the bloc is fine and dandy, or you are just experienced enough to hide the fact that the bloc is hurtfull to the rest of the community and that you only use it for your own personal gain.

Wait, what? Aren't you guys the ones complaining that we are going to destroy everyone elses infrastructure..? I have never seen anyone use this method of argument, sorry if I am a bit confused.

Avoiding my question are you? Next time you post, please answer it instead of evading it.

And it was later explained that he meant the allies of TPF were protected by WOLF by extension..?

What? What does TPFs allies have to do with anything? If LE had called in backup, WOLF would have been activated and thus curbstomped LE.

Edited August 11, 2009 by The fox

[Gabryal]

Not counting last round where they had a similar track record, heres the tally so far:

Hit MHA with well over 2x the NS

Hit Fark with well over 2x the NS

Hit Noir with well over 2x the NS

Hit LE with over 2x the NS

Are we seeing a pattern yet?

Didn't hit MHA, Attacked NOIR for a very good reason ( already hammered out ), hit Fark when LE was at war with TF ( or you'd be screaming about that ), hit LE when it was the strongest we could hit ( from the point of view of military ability ). I suppose we COULD have hit MHA instead of LE, but RE had already rolled MHA this round, LE WON their war against TF.

[Clash]

For the record: No one else in WOLF step in against LE. Please.

Thanks.

Problem is, you guys just survived the round. Everyother alliance in TE that opposes WOLF has been beatdown at least once.

SO!?! That's YOUR problem isn't it?

WTG us for building well, recruiting well, and fighting well.

It seems to me you're going to be mad no matter what happens - unless we lose.

Well BAWWWW.

We've gotten beaten down in every other round up til now, and this one isn't over yet. Yeah I know, it reeks to be the guys not killing everyone. We've been there. We ended last session on a bit of an upnote but the one before that ended on a curbstomp. There have been plenty of curbstomps with us at the bottom. This time, so far at least, we're on top is all. Everyone hates the guys at the top. When it's LE attacking everybody, everyone snivels at them, when it was MHA everyone hated on them, goes back through every round.

Most of your statement is NOT true. The round isn't over yet - and NO ONE survives the big nuking at the end. There are also several alliances out there who haven't fought at all this round. You can name them if you try. Go ahead, I'll wait over here. Done? See? Some people pixel hug. If that were us, it'd be in our best interest not to fight at all. Just sit around, recruit and build our nations and try to slip under the radar. Instead, we fight.

Tonight my LE opponent is going to nuke me. All hail his HNMS, I knew he had one when I attacked him and I'll be nuking him back too. He seems like a good enough guy, we're just out to play the game is all. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometimes everyone gets nuked.

[Gabryal]

Emperor Stranger,

Since this is your first round, I suggest you look into the past actions of TPF and RE before you put faith in votes and protocols. BG and Tiberius run this bloc, so what they do is bloc policy. You can forget about whatever system they pretended to set-up. You will do what they say, and thats final. As long as you are fine with policy being "roll over everyone", then so be it.

The last time the bloc sent someone who was remotely close in NS at us, they got humiliated and were forced to surrender. They arent making the same mistake again.

Since this is MY first round too, rethink this statement. I had no concept of history of how this game's past has been. So I did things differently than anyone has before, I had no pattern to go on. And how did WOLF come into our DoW other than to say that we mentioned that this is a TPF vs. LE war, not a WOLF vs. LE war?

[The fox]

For the record: No one else in WOLF step in against LE. Please.

Thanks.

If WOLF is a "defensive" pact as it has been argued, why do you need to ask the rest of the WOLF signatories not to attack?

And the round is practically over, what happens in the last day or even week doesnt really matter.

[Gabryal]

So, first you state that WOLF is only for defensive reasons, and now you say he can use it as a tool to threaten other alliances? You guys havent even had this pact for 48 hours and its already leaking like a target at a gunrange. The corruptness with this pact is clear as day, to the extent that I truely am surprised that more people havent opposed this by now.

Do you do much aside from Whine? I'd say close to 1/6th of the posts in this thread are by you and they all sound like an emo kid looking for a razor blade store. If it's that bad I can send you a link where you can buy straight razors over the net.

[Emperor Stranger]

And yet still you think that the bloc is fine and dandy, or you are just experienced enough to hide the fact that the bloc is hurtfull to the rest of the community and that you only use it for your own personal gain.

I am not a Communist; I don't believe that my interests should be limited to what's good for the collective. In fact, most Communists don't believe in that either. (Why else would they become dictatorships?) I will not deny that I am interested in what's best for Orbit Black. What you must understand is that everyone is looking out for their own interests. Even you.

Avoiding my question are you? Next time you post, please answer it instead of evading it.

The question was asking me if I was so afraid of losing infra that I would need to be in this bloc, right? No, I am not afraid of losing infrastructure. I was a mite confused when you asked me this because that's what you have been accusing RE and TPF of this whole time.

What? What does TPFs allies have to do with anything?

Those were the other alliances he was talking about.

[The fox]

I am not a Communist; I don't believe that my interests should be limited to what's good for the collective. In fact, most Communists don't believe in that either. (Why else would they become dictatorships?) I will not deny that I am interested in what's best for Orbit Black. What you must understand is that everyone is looking out for their own interests. Even you.

The difference between you and me is that I havent signed a pact that will ruin a game for hundreds of players just to get in a better position. Infact, I have joined a alliance that is known to fight anyone who attacks them, and doesnt back down from a fight, how is that looking out for myself?

The question was asking me if I was so afraid of losing infra that I would need to be in this bloc, right? No, I am not afraid of losing infrastructure. I was a mite confused when you asked me this because that's what you have been accusing RE and TPF of this whole time.

You are in the bloc, and then say you wont go to war if the bloc goes to war. It certainly seems like infra hugging to me. And I havent been accusing either one of infra hugging, merely making the game stale and boring to the point where wars dont happen anymore, if you attack any one nation, youll get a +200 man alliance over your nation so you wont be able to play it anymore.

You also stated that if WOLF declares war and if the ones that were declared on starts attacking your alliance, you would leave WOLF and start attacking that alliance with your own. So whats the point of you being in this pact to start with, if you are just gonna leave it once your alliance gets attacked to attack the first alliance yourself?

I would gladly go to war, hell my nation is already stocked up and ready to go, if you want to take a swing? The guy who spied away my nukes didnt have the courage to declare on me unfortunaly.

Those were the other alliances he was talking about.

I still dont see how TPFs allies fits in with making sure that none else joins in? Unless ofcourse you mean that he ment his allies not to join in, but I doubt he would get WOLF to attack his own allies. Likewise would happen if LE had called in some backup to help them with a enemy who has more NS and nukes than they do.

Edited August 11, 2009 by The fox

[Gabryal]

Not really, since WOLF would then become active as its a "defensive" pact. And since the full list of participants in the WOLF pact was never revealed, I would be very surprised if none of the above mentioned alliances arent in it.

Is comprehension a hard thing for you, this will be the 10th time at least I have explained this THERE ARE NO MEMBERS OF WOLF NOT LISTED IN THE CHARTER

You keep reminding me of the ancient civilizations that had no concept mathematically of zero. The only thing that exists outside of WOLF are allies of various alliances that are members. Even I don't know who they are, except that Real FAN is a TPF protectorate, the rest are only known to the other members of the Coalition, and I doubt any Alliance in such an alliance could count more than a dozen members, max.

You should change your nick to "The Chicken" instead of "The Fox" You're vying for the "most annoying poster" spot in all of CN at this point

[Gabryal]

So its fine for as long as none complains about it, but when you get a guy that is displeased with this, its all of a sudden important matter and needs a explination? Along with the fact that a persons opinion can be dismissed? The fact that the remainder of LE hasnt posted and been at their normal cheerfull mood is most likely a sign of the distaste with this DoW.

And I assume that this DoW came 24 hours or so after the WOLF pact was declared is just a coincidence right? I mean, it cant be a part of a grand scheme, because that would be outrageous, right?

Are you a member of the "Grassy Knoll" society, or are you unable to count the number of days till the end of the round?

[maicke]

i dont care what anyone else in LE says, im glad you guys declared war so we can have a real fight

though attacking RE would have been more fun, maybe we can do both XD (not saying we will, i am no government :\)

[Clash]

Fox, we don't tell other sovereign alliances what to do.

All we can do is ask them not to step in, and if they do, ask them to stop.

Or WE will stop.

Apparently pointing out the activites of the bloc leaders is whining now and not having honour? LE's track record speaks for itself, and even though your revisionist history likes to claim we called in people to help, the truth is that we didnt talk to anyone when TPF hit us last round. When we were helped without asking, Ammon called off the war due to it being unfair. Look what happened to TF when they tried the same stunt this round and ask yourself if we ever called for back-up. When the odds suddenly went against TPF, BG complained until the war was called off. All of a sudden you guys show up again, this time at double our NS, with 200 extra nukes and backed by half of TE and you want to talk about honour?

We'll fight whenever and whoever, but don't expect us to stay quiet when the bloc is showing a nice pattern of engaging alliances less than half their size and calling it fair. We don't mind bad odds, but when I hear garbage like, "2. Its a fair war, " its funny. This is a tech raid, not a war, but we'll fight until the end, you don't have to worry about that.

Never said anything about LE's honor, nice straw man. In fact, I have gone out of my way to praise it in this very thread. You DID talk to others last session and admitted it, though the other part is fair enough. When they stepped in Ammon called it off. We'll do the same thing if anyone steps in this time.

Yepp, we've got a lot of backing.

When it steps in, THEN you can complain and we'll listen and call it off.

When LE had 800 ns more than us we didn't complain when we blitzed you, either.

We're not going to complain when the tables are turned this tme out.

We didn't step in when you fought TF.

We caught crap for telling everyone else to stay out.

Not asking you to be quiet - but don't expect us to be quiet when you BAWWW so hard.

Pointing out the activities of the bloc leaders doesn't make them wrong. Pretty much EVERYONE is smaller than us in power. That's not our problem, that's YOURS. We build well, we recruit well and we fight pretty well. No matter who we fight, we're probably going to have an advantage. We do like to fight. Yeah, we still like to fight people.

This time we're fighting you.

Good to see you'll fight back.

[The fox]

Is comprehension a hard thing for you, this will be the 10th time at least I have explained this THERE ARE NO MEMBERS OF WOLF NOT LISTED IN THE CHARTER

o/ WOLF

Also there are a few members of the WOLF pack that are not listed....we have our reasons

BG.

You should change your nick to "The Chicken" instead of "The Fox" You're vying for the "most annoying poster" spot in all of CN at this point

You gotta be good at something, eh?

Are you a member of the "Grassy Knoll" society, or are you unable to count the number of days till the end of the round?

Im not, even if I was, what relevance does OOC things have with this?

Edited August 11, 2009 by The fox

[Clash]

i dont care what anyone else in LE says, im glad you guys declared war so we can have a real fight

though attacking RE would have been more fun, maybe we can do both XD (not saying we will, i am no government :\)

I offcially love you.

When I blitzed three LE last session, all of whom were bigger then me, I felt the same way.

THANKS!

Edited August 11, 2009 by ClashPoint

[Gabryal]

I think you are overestimating your importance. Reality says, what TPF and RE want, TPF and RE get. Who exactly would they NEED backup against?

I am not commenting on the rights or wrongs, not the likelyhood, just stating fact.

Explained this too, it's not for RE-TPF-TF's benefit that WOLF was formed, it was for the benefit of our friends ( who the rest of you can't roll anymore without facing us, which I think is the REAL reason so many people object )

Oh and we haven't got involved in the WAPA/AZTEC vs. TNL/NLR war have we? Could have and didn't. So calculate your odds if we had ( and WOLF did exist at that point, just not announced ).

[Emperor Stranger]

The difference between you and me is that I havent signed a pact that will ruin a game for hundreds of players just to get in a better position. Infact, I have joined a alliance that is known to fight anyone who attacks them, and doesnt back down from a fight, how is that looking out for myself?

Uhm, ruin it? Just declare war, even if you are by yourself. Are you afraid of having to reroll? Personally, I never get over a certain NS. I spend $800k of the start up cash and save $200k for war just in case I have to reroll. I may never win the round, but I do end up having fun. (Which is what the game is meant for. )

You are in the bloc, and then say you wont go to war if the bloc goes to war. It certainly seems like infra hugging to me. And I havent been accusing either one of infra hugging, merely making the game stale and boring to the point where wars dont happen anymore, if you attack any one nation, youll get a +200 man alliance over your nation so you wont be able to play it anymore.

It's a defensive bloc, not aggressive. Why would I go to war if the CB is to just roll someone I could care less about? Orbit Black has her own things to worry about, a defensive war is about all we can afford right now.

I would gladly go to war, hell my nation is already stocked up and ready to go, if you want to take a swing? The guy who spied away my nukes didnt have the courage to declare on me unfortunaly.

I am probably not near your range, not to mention I am just getting out of anarchy and am still in two defensive wars against AZTEC.

I still dont see how TPFs allies fits in with making sure that none else joins in? Unless ofcourse you mean that he ment his allies not to join in, but I doubt he would get WOLF to attack his own allies. Likewise would happen if LE had called in some backup to help them with a enemy who has more NS and nukes than they do.

LE can call in back up, OB won't get involved, that's all I can say. The war wasn't originally defensive, therefore it won't activate the bloc. I don't know what else to tell you.

[Gabryal]

And yet still you think that the bloc is fine and dandy, or you are just experienced enough to hide the fact that the bloc is hurtfull to the rest of the community and that you only use it for your own personal gain.

Amazing that you actually didn't consider that ES might have a reason to think that. You assume he's naive or an idiot, or both maybe. Telepathy.. I swear you missed your true calling you should be wearing a bandana looking into a crystal ball in a carnival somewhere.

[The fox]

Uhm, ruin it? Just declare war, even if you are by yourself. Are you afraid of having to reroll? Personally, I never get over a certain NS. I spend $800k of the start up cash and save $200k for war just in case I have to reroll. I may never win the round, but I do end up having fun. (Which is what the game is meant for. )

Yes, ruin it as in you cant declare on any alliance without having several hundreds of other showing up at your doorstep with nukes, completely obliterating your alliance, a curbstomp in other words.

I have warred in this round too, but since I dont to hit the wrong person and get my whole alliance in a curbstomp, I dont attack people in big alliances.

It's a defensive bloc, not aggressive. Why would I go to war if the CB is to just roll someone I could care less about? Orbit Black has her own things to worry about, a defensive war is about all we can afford right now.

Most likely due to the fact that you will get a curbstomp if you dont follow with the big guys and do what they tell you to, Regardless of how much they throw around the word sovereignty.

I am probably not near your range, not to mention I am just getting out of anarchy and am still in two defensive wars against AZTEC.

Indeed you arent, quite unfortunate really.

LE can call in back up, OB won't get involved, that's all I can say. The war wasn't originally defensive, therefore it won't activate the bloc. I don't know what else to tell you.

LE calls in backup, they declare on TPF, its taken as a defensive war and WOLF is activated.

Amazing that you actually didn't consider that ES might have a reason to think that. You assume he's naive or an idiot, or both maybe. Telepathy.. I swear you missed your true calling you should be wearing a bandana looking into a crystal ball in a carnival somewhere.

A reason to think what? The fact that WOLF is ruining TE? Or that its fine and dandy?

And now , perhaps you should stop trying to argue with me before you result to more insulting wording?

Edited August 11, 2009 by The fox

[Gabryal]

The difference between you and me is that I havent signed a pact that will ruin a game for hundreds of players just to get in a better position. Infact, I have joined a alliance that is known to fight anyone who attacks them, and doesnt back down from a fight, how is that looking out for myself?

If you think this makes you "Brave" then bravo for you, it also makes you stupid, and brave and stupid... is still stupid.

[The fox]

If you think this makes you "Brave" then bravo for you, it also makes you stupid, and brave and stupid... is still stupid.

Putting words in my mouth are we? Well then, I will answer this but it will be the last thing I respond to that will come out of you, because its obviously not any point in even trying.

No, I dont think it makes me brave, nor am I stupid, unfortunaly I cant say the same for you.