Best Large Navy + Nukes Trade Set?

[BulletBait]

It seems like the 7BG set + Uranium and the MIC Wonder is the way to go to afford the upkeep on a large navy and arsenal.

Magic 7 Set:

Aluminum, Marble, Iron, Lumber, Wheat, Fish, Rubber, Coal, Oil, Lead, Gold

Extra Resources: Uranium

Bonus Resources: Construction, Steel, Asphalt, Automobiles, Scholars, Microchips, Radiation Cleanup

Rough math says the naval upkeep will be -38% with this set.

The Mining Industry Consortium Wonder should help bring up the bottom line.

Can someone good with math say how this set-up will compare to the usual Agro and Industrial trade groups if you have +50 ships?

[SilverHawk]

It seems like the 7BG set + Uranium and the MIC Wonder is the way to go to afford the upkeep on a large navy and arsenal.

Magic 7 Set:

Aluminum, Marble, Iron, Lumber, Wheat, Fish, Rubber, Coal, Oil, Lead, Gold

Extra Resources: Uranium

Bonus Resources: Construction, Steel, Asphalt, Automobiles, Scholars, Microchips, Radiation Cleanup

Rough math says the naval upkeep will be -38% with this set.

The Mining Industry Consortium Wonder should help bring up the bottom line.

Can someone good with math say how this set-up will compare to the usual Agro and Industrial trade groups if you have +50 ships?

You'll want to throw Water in there for Beer instead of Fish. I think the +5.5 Happiness and +1 Enviroment helps if you can't get MIC.

Edit : I did the Calcs, with Fish, I'd only be making an extra 170,000 per collection. (Of course, Water is one of my default resources, if I got Fish as well, I couldn't get the 7/8BR Group.)

Edited July 11, 2008 by SilverHawk

[BulletBait]

You'll want to throw Water in there for Beer instead of Fish. I think the +5.5 Happiness and +1 Enviroment helps if you can't get MIC.

Edit : I did the Calcs, with Fish, I'd only be making an extra 170,000 per collection. (Of course, Water is one of my default resources, if I got Fish as well, I couldn't get the 7/8BR Group.)

170,000 per day is a lot.

I also started with beer, but the loss of the 8% pop boost seemed to be too much.

[BulletBait]

Posted in another Navy thread:

I save 30% on Upkeep (40% for my Frigate and Destroyers, 45% for my Subs and Carriers). My Subs and Carriers are 30% Cheaper, Frigates and Destroyers are 25% Cheaper and everything else is 15% Cheaper.

45% on Subs and Carriers is the real kicker.

With my current Agro Trade Set I payed $240,000 last night for the upkeep on 6 Carriers and 4 Frigates

[SilverHawk]

Like I should of said, you should go for Fish if possible, but if you have Water as a natural resource, you should go for Beer instead or else you can't get the Magic set.

Edit : Spelling

Edited July 11, 2008 by SilverHawk

[zzzptm]

I'm not so sure abandoning the 3BR is such a good thing, even with the reduced naval upkeep. How much is one giving up in order to get the reduced naval maintenance?

[cyan9]

I'm not so sure abandoning the 3BR is such a good thing, even with the reduced naval upkeep. How much is one giving up in order to get the reduced naval maintenance?

yeah before the navy was introduced the 3BR was the best. I don't thin the navy will affect it that much to change it to the automobile trade set being the best. I haven't done the new math though, so this is just my opinion.

[V The King]

I don't think the 7 BR would beat the 3 BR combo, or even the 5 one, unless you got a *lot* of infrastructure and a maxed out navy. You throw away plenty of population boost (and thus income) by adopting gold, lead and the such. But I'd need to do some actual math before giving an accurate statement.

[Viluin]

I've been thinking about getting the 7BG set as well for the military bonuses (Who needs more income after a certain point anyways). The thing is, I like my water. Your environment will take a big hit with this set, one that not even 5 border walls can counter unless you have at least 1 polluting native resource. Which I do. But I'm still not sure if the loss of water is worth it.

[zzzptm]

Honestly, this is a good thing... we're getting closer to actually having to make sacrifices in the game... we can't be nations that "have it all". If you want weapons, the cost will be prohibitive. If you want lots of cash, better hope someone with weapons doesn't knock on your door, looking for help in paying his bills...

[Amoshu]

The Mining Industry Consortium Wonder should help bring up the bottom line.

That's the problem I see you running into. That wonder really only gives +$8, and it has conditions. For an extra 5,000,000 the stock market beats it by +$2. Great Monument, Great Temple, Great University, National Research Lab, Social Security System, Stock Market, Internet, and, at higher levels, Interstate System, Universal Health Care, Nuclear Power Plant, Scientific Development Center, National Environment Office(Which would support the trades as well) and even the Agricultural Development Programsee post twice down beat the Mining Industry Consortium wonder outright in terms of economic increase with all 4 resources being present in a nation's resume.

Considering that the wonderclock is probably one of the most influential pieces that people have been having recently, it wouldn't befit a nation to take this wonder over another, when the others aren't reliant on your trades. I would have to have those thirteen wonders before I would consider allowing myself to purchase the Mining Industry Consortium. I'd take the National War memorial and Movie Industry over that wonder as well, since they don't restrict their effects to my trades. This way, if I lose a certain lead/uranium trade, I'm only out Lead/Uranium, not any effects that my wonders have.

Edited to include repetition.

Edited July 12, 2008 by Amoshi

[BulletBait]

That's the problem I see you running into. That wonder really only gives +$8, and it has conditions. For an extra 5,000,000 the stock market beats it by +$2. Great Monument, Great Temple, Great University, National Research Lab, Social Security System, Stock Market, Internet, and, at higher levels, Interstate System, Universal Health Care, Nuclear Power Plant, Scientific Development Center, National Environment Office(Which would support the trades as well) and even the Agricultural Development Program beat the Mining Industry Consortium wonder outright in terms of economic increase with all 4 resources being present in a nation's resume.

Considering that the wonderclock is probably one of the most influential pieces that people have been having recently, it wouldn't befit a nation to take this wonder over another, when the others aren't reliant on your trades. I would have to have those thirteen wonders before I would consider allowing myself to purchase the Mining Industry Consortium. I'd take the National War memorial and Movie Industry over that wonder as well, since they don't restrict their effects to my trades. This way, if I lose a certain lead/uranium trade, I'm only out Lead/Uranium, not any effects that my wonders have.

Edited to include repetition.

Thank.

I thought the MIC was equal to the ADP if you had all 4 resources.

The fact that it's really much lower changes the equation.

Hmmm..........

[Amoshu]

Thank.

I thought the MIC was equal to the ADP if you had all 4 resources.

The fact that it's really much lower changes the equation.

Hmmm..........

I'm actually wrong in that post. Well, to an extent... but the math is in this post, somewhere. With all four resources the MIC will beat out the ADP when a nation has a *NORMAL* amount of land to infrastructure. I'm looking at you Arcades057 Not that it's a bad thing to have a lot of land. I look at it as free citizen count. Back to the original post. Consider this bit at the top like an edit before the post.

I'll explain my thoughts on that. Considering the LONG list of wonders that have a greater effect, and the want to perhaps get some military wonders, there should be around a 13~18 month waiting period on the MIC. A nation naturally gains land over time, and can "raid" other nations for their land products. Nations can also purchase mass quantities of land when it is appropriate for them. A nation begins purchasing wonders at a possible 3k infrastructure, (Not really using the money wisely, imho.) to 5k infrastructure for most purchases. After 13 months from the point of reaching 5k infrastructure, the nation should have accrued a higher land rating to make the Agriculture Development Program worth it.

(This is assuming that the nation in question hasn't eaten too many nukes/been in too many wars that ended sourly for them. I'd be able to use my numbers to see more accurately, but my land has been shot underneath the 3k mark from nuclear attacks. So sad.)

comparing the two wonders,

Agriculture Development Program - $30,000,000 - Increases land size by 15%, Increases citizen income +$2.00, Increases the citizen-bonus for land from 0.2 to 0.5. Requires 3,000 land purchased, 500 technology.

Mining Industry Consortium - $25,000,000 - Increases population income by $2.00 for the resources Coal, Lead, Oil, Uranium that your nation has access to. Requires 5,000 infrastructure, 3,000 land purchased, 1,000 technology.

For the following, I'll assume that the nation has 5000 infrastructure, 50,000 citizens, and 3000 land, the SSS wonder has been purchased, and all economic improvements have been purchased.

At minimum required land, the ADP adds 450 miles of land, and 1035 citizens. If a nation makes $100/day from a citizen, the increase is $103,500. Note that this number continues to grow as land count increases. (every 20 land=10 citizens. Since the only impact land has on the upkeep of a nation is from NS:Tech ratio and environment, it is effectively free citizens.) There would also be an increase of $63,567.01425375 from the +$2, putting it at a total of 167,067.01425375

Math= 3000x1.15=3450x.3=1035x100=103,500+63,567.01425375=167,067.01425375

From the mining industry consortium, we'll tack on +$8. With all of the economic improvements and the SSS, the modifier is .622778625 (Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.)We multiply that by 8 and 50k, and we'll run into a number of 249,111.45. This would make the mining industry consortium>Agriculture Development Program at the bare minimum of levels, excluding the impact of environment.

Let's translate those numbers into something like 10k land and 80k citizens.

MIC: 398,578.32

ADP: +3450 citizens (+4% increase to population, assumed $100/person rate is 345,000. The modifier of +$2 comes into play here as well, at 83450.) 345,000+103,941.7525125=448,941.7525125.

So, at a higher level of land... the ADP will beat out the MIC. But that's only when you've got a fairly whacked out land:infra ratio anyway. ... Really didn't mean to turn it into an ADP VS MIC battle, but... Meh. All the *other* wonders still apply, no purchase necessary, see store for details.

[Viluin]

After looking over the resources again, I realized the environment hit wouldn't be too bad. Radiation cleanup gives +1 env and halves GLR, and Lead halves the environment penalty you get from nukes.

I'm getting this set asap to see if it's worth it. Luckily I have a cattle/water trade I can switch out, so it's pretty easy for me. On the other hand, finding a lead/gold trade might actually be hard (*GASP* I can't believe I just said that) because everyone seems to have full trade slots.

Edited July 12, 2008 by Viluin