Nicholas23
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Posts posted by Nicholas23
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Well said.
If this war has taught us anything is that those you call your enemies today might be helping you against your "allies" tomorrow, don't burn bridges too badly
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There is a difference between the negotiated and mutually agreed upon terms of peace between NPO and Legion during GWIII, and the incident I mentioned.
One is reparations, the other amounts to "protection money."
It's not like Legion and NPO got together for a picnic and Moo said "Hey Ref, you know what would go great with this orange cake? A few hundred million in reps." Legion could either pay or keep getting pounded into the ground by The Orders, TOP and FAN.
You claim that using the threat of force to get something out of Legion was a bad thing, I pointed to The Orders doing the same thing only asking for much more. So if "1000 tech or die" is bad, "700,000,000 francos or die" must be worse or at least equal.
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Tech raiding only existed among rogues until mid to late 2006, when a couple of GATO members were condemned for taking part in the practice by the NPO, and GATO outlawed techraiding. Tech raiding by alliance members did not exist then, and was taboo. It was not until the NPO's allies, after COUPtober, began to utilise their power to techraid, and no one was willing to stop them, not the CoaLUEtion because they didn't want to start a war over it, and not the NPO because they were in desperate need of allies.
To say Tech Raiding is a natural state in cybernations is a lie. It has been a characteristic of the anti-coaLUEtion alliances, which have dominated for so long that most were not around for the times they were not here.
Your historical account is irrelevant. right now, there is tech raiding alliances (The kind that were unheard of in the past) on both sides of this conflict and many more are uninvolved. So there's only two ways New Reverie's argument can be correct:
1) All tech raiding alliances are in the Unjust Highway, thus their defeat ends tech raiding. This, of course, is not true.
2) Once UJP is defeated, tech raiding alliances will no longer be able to "hide behind" others. However, New Reverie stated Pacifica has no interest of becoming a world police. So absent a world police type apparatus, how exactly COULD NPO and allies stop all of their tech raiding allies and all of the uninvolved tech raiding alliances?
Only two things logically follow:
1) This is just propaganda to get alliances that hate tech raiding to their side.
2) NPO is being honest in their desire to end tech raiding, and thus if they win they would begin to pursue military action against tech raiding alliances on their side or who had nothing to do with this war.
It's one or the other, if there's tech raiding alliances on your side and your side wins, either you force them to stop or tech raiding goes on.
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There was the whole incident where your alliance tried to blackmail 1000 tech from Legion.
But a guess that was a whole several weeks ago, and thus ancient history.
Wasn't there another alliance which "blackmailed" 700,000,000 in reparations and a few leaders from them? If you want to play the "Which alliance treated Legion the worst" game, The Orders are as far ahead in that as GPA will be in this game in a month.
If Legion was interested in not allying with those who have abused her in the past, Legion would be neutral in this conflict. I guess since that happened several months ago it's ancient history.
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But he isnt denying that :-/
The whole point of the New Reverie argument, which I am shocked to find some people actually believe, is that if you win this war tech raiding will be over. This was later modified, after we proved him wrong, to "Well we'll still tech raid but we won't be so mean about it."
In reality, both sides have many nations who love to tech raid. Both sides have many nations who either think it's in bad taste or simply prefer to buy infra rather than soldiers. No matter who wins, tech raiding will go on. This is not an issue in this war.
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Honestly, I don't get how this whole meme got started and I would think the fact that The Justice League has so many tech raiding alliances would be enough to defeat the argument on its face.
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Wow, very nice post and a nice laying out of a counter argument. I hope people take the time to read this and make a thoughtful reply. I'll try to add something more meaningful when I have the time.
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I will continue to use the tactics needed to bring this war to a successful conclusion. These include 'trolling' as they are both a means to raise morale for my own allies and to irritate my enemies. An angry enemy is an irrational one, which will induce mistakes. It can also serve to dishearten enemy troops. The only way to stop me will be to end the war.
OOC; besides, the best part of wars is the trolling.
Come on now, real trolls do it in war and peace alike.
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Possibly... But its all relative. We'll be much higher in rankings compared to everyone else. But what does that mean?
Anyway, regarding the length of the war, it will last several weeks at least. But it may be different from FAN in that both sides are in it to win, FAN knew it was going to loose and so acted in a way to drag the war out.
FAN is still fighting to win. I personally wouldn't bet against them.
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I like how everyone says the GPA will win. The only thing we gain is a little extra security because it will reduce the number of people that could potentially be a threat to us if they wanted to be. But as another major alliance attacking us is always unlikely, that isn't gaining a lot.
I think they mean NS wise.
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yeah i say 4-6 months. next summer shall be a summer of peace and rebuilding. til then, i am just happy that my nation finally got over 30k NS. i probably won't be seeing it for awhile to come.
I agree with this prediction. Not sure about the summer of peace, but fighting should go on for a few months.
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A comment on the trolling in this war:
It is NOWHERE near as bad as the flagrant trolling in GWIII. I've noticed a much lesser degree of trolling in this war. Now that the declarations are mostly passed, I expect there to not be too much of it henceforth. The trolling in GWIII was atrocious. Many topics made solely for the sake of bashing the other side. Every little insignificant discussion about the war resulting in huge arguments. This war really isn't so bad about it. I'm thankful for that much.
Not only that, but there seems to be a much stronger effort to keep things civil this time around. It may not be completely successful, but it's a testament to the improved mentality in the Cyberverse.
I think for the old great wars you had hatred building up for a looong time. Not so much this time.
OP: Good thread. 9/10
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but it's not WUT
at the core of WUT was always AoA, that is gone now, most of the original WUT members are gone, either pre-this drama or during it.
What you have now is UJP doubling as WUT, I really don't see why you guys don't just disband WUT and have UJP be your bloc.
Or maybe we'll disband UJP and have WUT be our bloc. After adding a few new members of course. That's right, didn't see that one coming eh?
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Your treaty name is very cool, too bad it includes one of the dark words.
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It is just this sort of idiocy why I usually avoid the OWF.
All this nit-picky overcompensating braggadoccio from morons who don't seem to realise that first you have to win the war before you CAN gloat about how much better you are than your opponents, and for the slightly more intelligent ones who realise they don't have to gloat, bicker, defame and besmirch as actions speak much louder than words.
Ur doin' it rong. The war is already over, there is no more tech raiding and Sponge and Bilrow will now have delicious cake at picnics with Legion and NTO bringing the chips.
I think you need to go into one of Josef Thorne's world famous re-education camps.
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It's long been understood in CN that the members of an alliance are responsible for the actions of it's leaders. I'm sure there are some fine \m/ members. I've had fun conversations with them over the last 9 months. However \m/, as a whole, gets no respect. They have treated my alliance like crap, and now it's time to pay for that.
Yes, you are free to declare war on them and bash their infra to bits for the actions of their leaders. You are not, however, entitled to personally disrespect them. I now regret even bringing it up, it's clear you're all in "HAR HAR OUR ENEMIES ALL SUCK AND WE GOT THIS WON AND THEY'RE ALL WORTHLESS" mode.
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I was unaware of anywhere in our war declaration where we so much as hinted at having any respect for \m/. They attempted to extort 1000 tech from us for no reason other than "I thought I could get away with it." They declared on our best friends. They backed Valhalla in a war they knew to be for a made up reason, then proceeded to screw Valhalla over by offering to stop fighting Legion for a massive tech payment. \m/ is an alliance of thugs. Of course Legion doesn't respect them.
Okay then.
I personally believe that just because you disagree with an alliance's policy it is no reason to disrespect the individuals. (OOC: This is a principle that civilized people in general apply to to any group/individual situation). Now, I have no problem if you had no respect for \m/, their policy, their actions and even their leaders (who are the embodiment of the alliance and the crafters of their policy). God knows Legion's policy has taken a rhetorical beating over the past few months from many sources. I do have a problem when you disrespect all of the people doing a helluva job on the battle field.
I'm sorry you feel that way about people who you don't even know and who are fighting just like you, but if that's how you look at things then all I can say is we must agree to disagree and I am thankful not to be your ally in battle.
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The sun does shine out of our arse.
We are the light of Planet Bob, and once you stood basking in it. When you decided to roll in the mud with the pigs, you lost sight of that. A re-education is in order.
OOC: CN would be a lot more fun of everyone posted in the style of Mr Thorne.
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May we learn the lessons of the WUT and never repeat those mistakes again. We're still around though, we just had some folks not willing to honor the pact. Some for legitimate and honorable reasons, others... notsomuch.
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Yep.
Good luck guys! And just remember... \m/ are pirates... not soldiers.
I don't know why I am honoring such an ignorant statement with a response, but I think my intellectual honor doesn't allow me to see a post that is not only completely and absolutely baseless but one of the most sickening displays of lack of respect for your opponents and let it go without answer.
\m/ are one of the finest military alliances on CN. No one, especially the likes of you who has done nothing worthy of the right to properly critique military ability, may call them anything but one of the finest armies ever assembled on Planet Bob.
Your lack of respect, recognition and just plain infantile behavior betrays the fact of who really aren't soldiers. But no, I will not go as low as you, I honor every single Legion soldier who is putting it all on the line, regardless of their leaders inability to conduct themselves properly. I want them crushed of course, but I dare not question the fact that they are warriors just like those on my side fighting for what they think is right and worth losing it all over.
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We broke no treaties in any different sense than GOONS broke theirs. We have not attacked GOONS, \m/, TPF, or Gen[m]ay. We attacked the Mushroom Kingdom, which we have never had any treaties or pacts with. We did not uphold the ATTACK part in the MADP that was WUT, but neither did GOONS in accordance to the Drinking Buddies Pact.
Our reasons are no different, and yet MCXA is at fault? I also love how just yesterday you were all saying how much you loved MCXA, in an attempt to gain our favour, and now you moan about us betraying you.
1) You also did not uphold the DEFENSE part of the WUT. Many non-WUT parties which have no treaties with MCXA attacked the WUT while you were still members.
2) This is totally different from what Sponge did, which was ask GOONS to uphold the ATTACK part of an MADP by hitting another MADP ally.
You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it, but you are not entitled to muddle up the facts.
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UJP can spin this however they choose. Nothing is going to change the fact that the first official DoW came from Gen[m]ay.
That however is not the point of my original post. My point is that the major tech raiding alliances have finally banded together in such a way that their destruction, something that has been necessary for a long time, can finally be accomplished. You say you give your alliance members freedom, yet when that freedom allows your alliance to subjugate another group, it isn't called freedom it is called conquest. During the course of your conquest, many people you have attacked have tried to defend their own freedom only to have matters made worse for them.
I have a suggestion for the alliances of the Unjust Path. Instead of encouraging your members freedom, you should have encouraged them to be responsible players. Your freedom has resulted in attacks on countless new and old players to this game who want nothing more than peace and independence. This world is not about having alliances, it is about having a nation. I look forward to a time when once again an active nation does not have to worry about being bullied by large alliances, especially in the name of freedom.
I put the premise of your entire argument in bold. This premise is false, as has been pointed out many times in this thread. Your side has many alliances with the same or similar rules regarding tech raiding that \m/ has. Your side signs treaties which recognize the right of alliances to tech raid. Why did you make this thread?
Is this the kind of propaganda you've been giving to people, that if they beat UJP tech raiding will be over? It is a fact that such a claim is false. It's also deliciously ironic because this whole war started because of an alliance behaving in the way you say we should eradicate... only it was an alliance on YOUR side.
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FAN had a vast amount of tech, so of course they have stopped losing strength at the rate they were after some point. Though a good majority of FAN is at or near ZI, the share amount of tech continues to bloat their overall strength and making it seem like it is much more than it actually is. Now to go back under my rock.
A value cannot be both absolutely arbitrary and unfairly representative at the same time. Since NS is absolutely arbitrary assigned to different units, how can one ever have strength that "seems greater than it actually is"?
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Hopefully, only a week or two. I got the +15% citizen event a little awhile ago and I want to use it to expand. >_<
I assume you're only talking about round one lasting a week or two, right? This is going to be an old school 15 round fight (12 rounds are for cowards) and with bare knuckles.
Aftermath Predictions
in Open World Forum
Posted · Edited by Nicholas23
I think specific aftermaths are impossible to predict, but people are forgetting one thing: There is a very real chance for a new dominant bloc to be born. Alliances like TOP who stayed out will have a golden opportunity. Honestly, like I've said in private, I'm surprised ODN/Legion/GATO and other former Aegis didn't make a bloc and all stayed out. By the time this war is over, they'd be stronger than whatever is left of the former WUT.
But that's not here or now. I still think we'll see a new bloc that will rival and perhaps surpass whatever is left of whoever wins. If the winning side is the Polar side, I expect them to fracture as they have more of a CoaLUEtion type group. If the winning side is UJP expect UJP to add a few new members and become a solid bloc.
And remember, GATO SHALL RISE AGAIN! Expect them to get a mask after this whole affair.