Valashu

Guess I'll have to take the fall for this. As I screwed up this debate by giving you this wonderfull quote. But anything I say now to remedy the term recruiting will look as back-tracking. If you want to throw away credibility, throw away mine as I interpreted the situation from the outside.

As for the first, like I said, MCXA was having a internal drama fest. Some people were told, we're done with all of this, we're out. That is different from the Vox kind of recruiting. We did not INTEND to hurt MCXA, the intention was to leave MCXA and let the ones critizicing take over with those that wanted to stay. People agreed with statements and joined us. At that point it was clear to some people that a actual group was planning on leaving. So they spend time on it to make it into a workable idea and see how to procede with both the benefit of MCXA and the leaving members in mind. Now as for the whistleblowing. I totally agree with you that there's no fault in what those people did. If I'd heard about that then I'd have told. However the issue lies with the fact that they blame us for forcing the issue and jumping ship all at once instead of smoothing it over. That however was mostly done simply because of the position in MCXA was not realistic after it became known that the group wanted to leave. How many people would seriously be listening right after a trial drama and the message they would be leaving. So it was decided to speed up the founding, flags were made, the treaty was found and we left.

Out of context they sound worse than it is. There's actively going around telling loose allied people to join you. And there is letting your closest friends know you're leaving to start a new alliance. This is a case of the later. It hurt MCXA because people left. But that was inevitable.

I responded earlier but I'll give it another go since the first one might not be satisfactory. We're a group of friends, friends who play together and formed a group inside MCXA. Yes it was recruiting from an alliance, yes it was done in a way that hurt MCXA. But I don't see any different solution. The people were going to leave anyway, the group is a group for a reason. I imagine it being domino like, Sam leaving, Da leaving, Iggy leaving. That lead to their closest friends hearing about it, telling their closest friends. Untill the entire normal skype comunity that we tend to hang out with knows. The result looks ugly, but differing scenarios don't look much better. Internal drama has to do with that, relations simply were not right at that point. Several people were already spreading their wings. A all-in-one might actually have been better than a month worth of prominent members leaving and leaving and leaving. I personally find that more discouraging than knowing exactly what is going on and what situation you're at. But that's all personal.

Personally I don't have a answer for that. I wouldn't have liked it but I guess it's inevitable. The group that's forming TSO was very close in MCXA, something like this would have been discussed. Is it politically correct? Who knows, something like this has never happened.

Sharp-ish, although I've seen better. Granted, our situation is a lot less secure then when we were leading MCXA. But that's part of the game-changing step. We'll see how it goes. I guess there's a attractiveness in taking the game one day at a time. Lets hope the other first, being on the receiving end of a beating, takes a while before it happends.

Left myself wide open for that one .

I believe that several TSO members contacted MCXA's allies prior to leaving to asure the treaties were more then safe. Although that in itself was not really in doubt, I believe some allies were contacted to make sure. But don't quote me on it.

While I wasn't around, I believe there was one person who was actually kicked. But the "dissent' that followed on that would not have been anywhere close enough to us "losing power". The elections in MCXA rarely had more then 60 persons voting. The 40 people that are now in TSO would have been more than enough to get the core of "sam's group" elected. MCXA allows each person to vote for 9 people I think. So no, it was not a question of us possibly losing power. MCXA had several of these situations, including the CWC drama fest. For me that was one of the biggest reasons for leaving and founding a secluded, smaller group of friends. I can't speak for others. Sure there will be people simply following us without a actual reason. But for me, it was the constant drama that kept resurfacing in different shapes. Every alliance has those though. I don't know why it would be different for MCXA. I just know that I really couldn't live with it anymore. I don't demand respect as a leader, I don't expect it. But I do expect everybody to behave like grown-ups. Too many times discussions took a sad and wrong turn. Going outside the area a game should stay in. And yes, that was because of both sides. Not just those remaining in MCXA, but also because of some TSO and currently other affiliated people. It all created a very hostile environment, which is why I left. For MCXA I do believe this is a good move, I didn't see some of the current new government working together with the old government. Being a democratic alliance we couldn't have prevented it, we would still be "leading the alliance" as Co-Chancellors and with a majority of the High Council, but that's not the way to lead a alliance. So the group of people who played together for a very long time and was closely connected through irc and skype chose to go together to stil play together but without the endless drama. That meant most of the government. Including long-serving and short-serving government. The government for the past few months was close and loved playing together, it was the active core of the alliance. We will still be doing the exact same thing. I realise this may seem like being traitors. Yes we are leaving a alliance en-masse. But remember that together we have served MCXA for about 40-60 years. It's not like we want MCXA destroyed, we could have done that quite a different way. We just wanted out, and play together. This seemed like the best way. Should we have stayed to make the transition smoother? Maybe, but keep in mind that there were some problems between old government and new government. Would that have worked for the atmoshpere in the alliance or would a instant new situation have worked? I don't know. This is my view of the situation, I was not around for all of it as I left early so there might be some missunderstandings here, but it's why I joined TSO.

Maroon War is as far back as my memory goes. Newbie back then so wasn't aware of the bigger scheme; after NpO and GOONS had joined there was quite the potential for a GW. Or so I've heard afterwards. Fun times, mostly.

Thanks for the update Roy. Just a little mix-up. MCXA gained 0.16 instead of 0.06. Just wanted to point that out considering it's our biggest gain in days. >.>

Great timing >.>

Who said war is destructive? o/ MCXA