Prodigal Moon
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Posts posted by Prodigal Moon
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So I guess we should jump in and get destroyed this war so that we can avoid getting destroyed next war. Yeah that makes sense...NOT! :DIf the war continue like this, I won't be surprise if next time what's left of SNX leads a coalition to destroy NpO.
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If they are indeed this willing to get massacred to keep XX pristine, kudos to them for their unflinching loyalty and to you for your gleeful willingness to let them take the blows.
Thank you. -
Hey man thanks for looking out for us and breaking it all down but I think we're just gonna end up sitting this one out. I hope AFM can forgive us later.
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We would attack those nations, but then it would be up to Polaris to determine whether Polaris had declared war on itself.
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One might say that we are polar opposites? :awesome:
Agh that would've made my awful "name this war" pun even better. How about:
The Polar Opposites War: Haute Vs. Cold?
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Rush, I keep reading your posts as: RAAGHH VERY LOUD NOISES :psyduck:
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Dajobo threatens vietFAN.
I wonder how many times alliances have thrown out this line. NpO doesn't have the mental capacity to fight a prolonged conflict as the losing side.I'll quote you along with Os six months from now. In the meantime, please continue to tell yourselves we're bluffing.
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Haute vs. Cold
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For the love of god, would you please stop banging the lame "NpO won't honor its treaties!!" line until at least NPO allies join in against AFM? It's really weak this early in the war.
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Alliance #1 will form a coalition to go after people who plot on it and publicly threaten it repeatedly. This doesn't demand reparations but may give in to coalition demands that you have some nations stay in peace mode (the horror) for a while. Otherwise, they want to be left alone to grow in peace. They don't even raid unaligned nations, let alone nations in well-established, peaceful alliances.
Alliance #2 attacks people without any pretense of justification beyond further maintaining their unrivaled power. Simply being stronger than everyone else isn't enough for them - they need to completely outmatch even the nearest unaffiliated power to feel secure. Their aggression isn't to stop an injustice, or thwart an actual threat to them, or even to satisfy a grudge. They do it because they can, and they've calculated that it will be good for them and they can get away with it. The question of whether it's ethically defensible doesn't even enter the equation.This is the hallmark of a sociopath.
I wish we were perfect, and Polaris never hurt a fly in all our lives, because the OWF seems absolutely incapable of discussing nuance. How else would you reach the conclusion that these two alliances are essentially the same?
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I'll make you a deal Prodigal. If polar declares war on everyone who aids DBDC and then doesnt agree to stop when Polar does diplomacy with them.... doesn't apologize or whatever... I will do whatever you want. Go to the OWF making an announcement that you are a genius and I an unworthy worm. Literally eat my hat on video and post it. Send you 1,000 tech. Never post on the OWF again (who am I kidding, that would be a plus). Whatever you want.
And if Polar *DOESNT* do that, all I expect in return is for you to admit this was a lame PR stunt and not a stand on actual principle.
Like I said, I think Dajobo is a bit smarter than to automatically declare war on every nation the instant they send aid to DBDC without starting with diplomacy and escalating as necessary. But in general, yes, I fully agree: if this turns out to be a hollow statement and not an actual policy of going after DBDC tech sellers - using a range of approaches up to and including war until we get our desired result - I'll be the first to admit it. Likewise, if we follow through with this plan, I'll be happy to simply bring your predictions up again and let them speak for themselves.
Do us a favor and make it something everyone doesn't already know about you. Like, Prodigal is a genius and you wear your grandmother's panties.
Implying that my genius isn't also well known already :psyduck:
Maybe, Prodigal Moon, it's time you pay less attention to world politics, and more attention to your nukes disappearing. Nightmerica has plenty to lose and I am happy to take it.
You mean like the one I lost yesterday right before the huge explosion in Lander Clan? Good point, where did that thing run off to? :awesome:
But seriously, living at the mercy of others - who happen to be pretty damn ruthless in this case - isn't much to cling to. Rather die on my feet than live on my knees and all that.
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Edit: double post
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Maybe I should've said I try not to make my enemies think they have nothing to lose. Ah well. No arguments on the second part.
Enemies don't just magically appear or evaporate and Polaris did itself no favors by sitting on its hands while whistling to a delusional tune. -
[b]DBDC hereby recognizes your recognition of attacks and does you one better. Until a second agreement is reached, DBDC will consider itself at war with every current and future ally of Polaris and might just hit anyone who send tech there too, if it pleases the casualty gods. If you wish to trade the micro tier for all claim to the upper tier for the rest of your existence we gladly accept your challenge and volunteer as tribute for the 1v1 you so desperately seem to think NPO deserves.
Talk about screwy logic. How exactly would we have any claim to the Top 250 if we continued to let you raid us and others without reprisal? I guess we could go the NPO route and become useful subjects in exchange for a thin slice of the pie, while you further consolidate your chokehold on the world. But that's not really living now is it? You've taken this thing so far that appeasement is no longer even tempting. And now with this declaration, only reinforced the idea that we need to bring you down or die trying. Personally, I try not to make enemies with people who have nothing to lose. -
Well said. Would be proud to fight with you there. Or to defend any ODN ally from this silliness. But I doubt I will ever have to because I doubt Polar will act on it.
What's even better rush, is they are overlooking the key word here 'may'.
The may is what makes this such a farce.
In other words, this isn't a principled stand. Polar has no intention of fighting people who aid DBDC on principle. If its not politically expedient, they won't do it. The only way this will ever use it, is if they want an excuse to hit someone without a real CB.
You want to take a stand on honor polar? You really think people aiding DBDC need to be punished?
Take out the 'may'. Make it you WILL. You actually start fighting with everyone who aids DBDC I will respect you a ton. You use this as a pr tool or to cherry pick one or two AAs without the political clout to defend themselves from you? Well... ::spreads hands::
Seriously. "May" come in, indeed. IF you really think aiding DBDC is an act of war/aggression on polar or your allies hit by dbdc, than whats it say about you that you only MAY defend them.
I'm not in polar gov, so I can't presume to know exactly how Dajobo plans to implement this policy like you can. But I can't help but wonder if there could be some cases where we might halt someone from further aiding DBDC without automatically attacking them, and then feel glad we didn't claim we literally will attack every single person who ever aids DBDC. I guess time will tell. -
What makes you think we'd get rolled and then just go back to a peace situation where DBDC is even more in control, without exhausting every last resource to try to change that?Why do people keep saying this is "taking a stand"....
FFS are you all that gullible. Its a stand with zero risk. Polar will be (or is , depending on perspective) getting rolled soon. This "policy" will be defunct as part of any peace agreement down the road. Its a fish for warm fuzzies and hails. Its not a "stand"... Jesus educate yourselves about how Planet Bob works. -
Amused at the various responses to this. Good read thus far.
I like how they alternate between "You're pathetic for just declaring on some tech farms!" to "HAHA you'll be so swamped in this war you'll never have the resources to fight the tech farms" :psyduck:
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Finally! This has been war all along, only now we'll be full participants.
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What I was talking about was communications with allies. You know, talking to them? That is what differentiates a puppet relationship from an equal relationship, and that is what did not really happen. If you only ever talk to your allies when there is a war incoming, then there is something wrong with your relationship.
What if you're only granted a treaty with them when they want you to fight their war while they rise out of range. Does that suggest anything about the relationship? -
And which nation strength range an alliance falls into the most, don't forget that factor. Who knows, it could turn out to have some bearing on who burns the most in this war :)I am not here trying to convince you or the world on who is leading what coalition, I'm simply raising a point that one of the arguments used was NPO is burning on behest of others, even tho, who burns to what degree is also highly dependent upon where the opposition does it's deployment and not just masters or puppets.
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There is a middle ground between doing nothing and shaping history. I'm not here to argue that we are significant influences only that we are better, and certainly more independent than most of Polar's satellites. You're kind of making a strawman arguement here, Prodigal.
Man, you really expect me to stay nuanced when you're saying our allies are "completely worthless" and that you're somehow just "better" (no explanation given)? If your influence is non-significant, and you're not shaping history, I'd be a little less hyperbolic when crapping on other alliances, that's all I'm saying.
Maybe you're relatively more militarily proficient for your size than some of our allies, that we can probably agree on. But I guess that just doesn't have quite the same punch to it.
If you want to talk about shaping history, we need to talk about rulers, not alliances. On that list you, (un)fortunately, won't be included. Canik would be (maybe on the lower end of the top 100, but there regardless).
Anyways, you are ignoring his point. The greater polarsphere hasn't actively done anything to protect themselves. Alliances were created for mutual protection and to allow growth, in that endeavor your allies have failed. And I think some would argue that by choosing to be continually aligned with them your alliance has failed to attain any sort of longterm security.
We went from the chopping block last year to apparently ruling the world six months ago, so I'm not sure what you're even getting at.
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Yeah NpO likes that you do nothing but act as a meatshield for them. You like that NpO doesn't bother you about how terrible you are. I can see how the relationship works out nicely for both of you.
The point is, if anyone's satellites are retarded, it's NpO's. You can't fight, you can't politic, all you can do is sit around "liking" each other. Apparently that's the entire game to you, I don't see why the entire Zergling pack doesn't just go neutral. You must all be masochist because the only thing you're achieving is pain and suffering, over and over again.If you want to remove all alliances that "do nothing," you're going to end up with about 7-10 of us who actually shape the course of history. The various configurations of BFF unfortunately won't be included.
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Lets be honest.. the offer of 1v1 duels to settle grudges is older than the hills. It makes for good theater and decent narrative, but it is never ever practical, and will never ever happen as a mainstay. You also now sound like Tywin, civilized alliance and whatnot. You are better than that. This was brought on by FA failures by NpO and TOP both. You both exited the last war with the entire world at your feet, only to find that nobody would touch you going forward. You had no paths open to you. Why? Surely you get the why.
TOPs gov calling C&G expendable... closed off C&G. Sure there was some openness, but it really was DoA, in regards to a relationship.
Your coalition not standing up to allies who wanted to extract that extra pound of flesh from NPO for the horrific crime of leaving 29/74 +90K nations in PM the entire war (something literally EVERYONE does, just on a smaller scale since most AAs dont have 74 in that range) kinda made moving forward on that front impossible.
Continuing to snuggle Mi6 as they tried to walk across the world with the combined smugness of Umbrella, GOONS and MK rolled into one, despite having done NOTHING to earn that smug, literally rubbing EVERYONE the wrong way so that NOBODY wanted to be near enough to TOP-Polar for fear of the stench.
Lots of main bullet points, you can talk around and find a dozen more examples like what it is above , forming and shaping the various opinions of the entire planet outside of Platysphere. The only real difference is, for all his faults, Roquentin recognized it. Umb recognized it. And while I find it a tad classless , the speed in which they flopped, I can certainly see why, and if my personal chats with folks in Umb were honest, I can honestly see where they are coming from.
This is not about "civilized and uncivilized", you still have GOONS in your sphere. You are the alliance who invented the in-war backstab, in fact. This is about the political game that happens between great wars. You accepted a following of people who made moving forward impossible. The rest of the world didnt come together, they were forced together to avoid being part of the great sphere (sarcasm) that Polar and TOP were erecting.
Long story short: you guys keep focusing on justifying your grudges and feelings. I'm talking about that "material reality" that NPO claims it's all about. What are you going to say when you're dominated by Doomsphere after this? "Well, it's just that MI6 was so smug, I'm glad we went after them instead"? You're lucky I'm not Schatt or I would write an essay about friendship vs. military treaties.
If you can't justify this war based on actual threat assessment, or a coherent vision of how things play out afterwards ("build a new order from the ashes" doesn't count), then I think you've conceded the point.
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That is ABOUT as solid as the plan Polaris had when they signed with TOP. You reaped your rewards, you lost the subsequent political game. It is the new cycle of the cyberverse. Can NPO actually win the battle 2 times in a row, and introduce a new paradigm? We shall see.
TOP are a civilized alliance, and it remains to be seen whether they stand with us this time. Doomsphere are truly barbarians. Or aliens, as they seem to prefer. That's actually pretty accurate. An alien invasion should unite us all in repelling it. We can hash out our political grudges later.
Regardless of what we should or shouldn't have done before, it's kind of silly to stand here and defend this war by saying it's the same mistake as last war.
Dajobo even offered us up to duel Pacifica, so you know this isn't about infra-hugging. If we have to get rolled, so be it. What I'm talking about is keeping all of us who aren't at 30k+ tech still in "the game."
Imperial Decree - DBDC
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
Wait I'm not sure what's going on exactly but I'm starting to get the sense that some people out there are passing judgment on us is that really true?