CEverettKoop

[quote name='Heinlander' timestamp='1283407191' post='2438949'] In the current political environment, any large scale offensive against a full fledged alliance would be met with huge backlash. The fact that GPA is unaligned is moot because they are the third strongest alliance in the game and because their stance has earned the sympathies of a lot of people who find their form of high minded pretense noble. Added to that, no nation will attack another without CB, and as the GPA will never attack and since they are about as active and interesting as snail crawling uphill, no nation will ever have CB against them. GPA effective leveraged the current anti-war sentiment pervading the high nations into becoming a powerhouse without needing to actually be interesting or exciting or proactive towards the community. [/quote] In this political environment, any offense against anyone would be met with huge backlash. We could have two micros going at it and people would scramble all over themselves to hail or condemn it. Also, as we saw with the recent NSO stomping, people will nitpick the CB to death as well. GPA is playing everyone. They've got the support of the moralists because they have the moralists convinced that hiding off in a corner and doing nothing is some great big noble act. To people like us who see through their lies, they just reiterate their neutrality pledge and hide behind the curtain. They can't be trusted. [quote name='Don Chele' timestamp='1283407738' post='2438959'] I'm sure they'll get a kick out of your irrefutable Wizard of Oz logic, but you really are hopelessly lost in your own attempts to be GOONish (your alliance mates do it better than you, your avatar caption notwithstanding). If you scroll back up to the OP, you'll see that until about a week ago, I was part of the "upper stages" of their government. If you paid any attention whatsoever (or had been here for more than a minute), you would know that the GPA doesn't threaten EZI on their membership or anyone else. Expulsion, maybe, but you are being ridiculous Mr. Scarecrow. I will also point out that the high turnover commented upon by many is deceptive in that almost all of the newly elected government have served in the government before, first among them Probablementeno, who has now served more terms as President than anyone in GPA history, I believe. [/quote] So you're one of them. By that alone your words cannot be trusted. You can state all you want that they don't threaten EZI, but they're not going to tell us because that would break the image that they are projecting upon us. And don't assume that I'm trying to be all GOONish or however you want to try and belittle me. I'm just asking questions here, one's that need to be answered for the good of us all.

[quote name='Heinlander' timestamp='1283405535' post='2438923'] I agree that the GPA subscribes to this cult of neutrality, but it is what it is. The more you try to cover over the inner workings of the organization, the more the cracks in the illusion begin to manifest. Its far more logical that the GPA members haven't spilt the beans because there are no beans to spill. Creating the cult might be an easy thing given the minimal work really required in logging in each day to pay your bills, but its an entirely different thing to use the cult as a cover for a greater conspiracy. In the case of the former, the GPA preys on pixel-hoarders and employs them to slowly build their NS without having to bother with the politics and warfare that other groups use to refine themselves. And we all know how many pixel hoarders there are, especially at the bottom. In the case of the latter, the GPA not only have to find people who are willing to blindly obey orders, but they have to amass membership dedicated to the illusion. It could be trivial to do the one, but nearly impossible to do the latter on the scale that the GPA have. The GPA strive to great achievements in mediocrity, and there's no reason why they can't pull it off. But the kind of smoke-filled-room dealings your talking about is magnitudes more complex and difficult to implement without [i]any[/i] security breaches. And the advantage of striving for mediocrity is that it's easy because no one is going to stop you. So congratulations GPA. You've filled the niche of Ultimate Mediocrity. [/quote] I think there's more going on then any of us who aren't in the upper stages of government realize. There's no reason for an unaligned alliance to not find themselves staring down a nuclear arsenal from any reasonably sized alliance, because who is going to come to their defense? There have to be some kind of deals just to maintain their existence. As for the control over their members, I imagine the threat of EZI does pretty well. Once you fall under their spell, keep your mouth shut if you want to stay on this planet. [quote name='Don Chele' timestamp='1283405588' post='2438925'] I briefly considered responding to specific posts here, but then I read them. You people do realize that the GPA has been operating under the same philosophy for over four years, don't you? It's not some nefarious plot to passively conquer the world. They really don't have much need to participate in the open community because, quite frankly, it rarely merits participation and they have their own, closed community. The real point here is that a lot of great people have just been elected into government positions, and I offer them all my congratulations. To the newly elected: those of us who have departed from the GPA, and those who remain but have retired from government, trust that you will tend the garden well and keep the fences mended. Chele PS - The GPA do not "just collect taxes every day", that would be terribly inefficient as an economic strategy and economics is one thing that they do quite well by any alliance's standards. [/quote] How do we know that they are what they say they are? Ever see the Wizard of Oz? Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. In this case, it's the brains behind their alliance, who's really pulling the strings. They can have all the public turnover they want because it's a charade. There's something far more sinister going on behind the scenes, and that's what we need to be aware of. If you believe what they say, then you have fallen into their trap, and then they win. We can't allow that.

[quote name='Heinlander' timestamp='1283403576' post='2438900'] You are describing a cult. [/quote] The Cult of Neutrality, I suppose. Maybe mind-control is a little strong but no one can deny that something is going on here, something shady. You're right in that we've had people go rogue due to boredom (RIP Slappy) and I know other alliances can easily say the same, yet no one from an alliance that does nothing has lashed out from the overwhelming urge to do something? To do anything? This is concerning. Deeply concerning.

[quote name='Heinlander' timestamp='1283402605' post='2438887'] You're talking about a level of control and organization that I strongly doubt is possible. The GPA has over 200 acting members. You don't think that a single nation would get tired of waiting for a conflict that cannot be predicted in an indeterminate point in the future for a chance to execute a convoluted powergrab and leave the alliance and spill the beans? We've had people in GOONS go rogue because they got tired of waiting. You think that the GPA, which has nothing to offer its members apart from a smug sense of self-righteousness, could succeed in that area? Its inconceivable. [/quote] You're right in that we don't know how they do it. In fact there is a lot that we don't know about the GPA. I know that they won't let their members even post here for fear of breaking their precious neutrality. They have some kind of mind control that makes their membership happy to just collect taxes every day and wait for the nuclear apocalypse. I'm thinking they promise everyone who joins a spot in "government", it would explain why there is so much turnover. But there has to be an ulterior motive here. No rational person could possibly enjoy the tedious, mind-numbing neutrality. We need to be aware of what they are doing before they do it.

[quote name='Heinlander' timestamp='1283401823' post='2438875'] Whats the endgame to that? Okay the GPA rolls a couple depleted alliances in the tail end of a nuke war. Now they've made enemies of everyone who used to sympathize with them because they took a moral stand when in reality they were playing the rest of the world for jive suckers. If they're the masterminds you allege they are, surely they've thought through to that inevitable conclusion. [/quote] The endgame is that they win. They take out whoever is left standing and they've proven themselves above the rest of the world. No allies, no treaties, nothing. They can hold down anyone else from growing and establish a dark age of neutrality, where any kind of thought, positive or negative, is forbidden. That is what they are thinking.

[quote name='Heinlander' timestamp='1283400876' post='2438858'] If that's the case, then their daily regiment must consist of sitting around and imagining what full on combat is actually like and congratulating themselves on how superior they are. In which case they are still a boring and bad alliance. But I think you're being paranoid. I mean, just look at this announcement. It's literally nothing but a banner and a list of names that nobody cares about. That strikes me less as a ruse to distract us from their sinister machinations and more of a group who has nothing better to do than to advertise their housekeeping. [/quote] No one can dispute that they are a bad and boring alliance. I'm saying that no one can completely dismiss them just based on the numbers they have. Maybe they couldn't beat anyone right now. But they could steamroll nations and alliances that are at 20-30% after a prolonged nuclear conflict. If you don't think that thought hasn't crossed their minds, you're being naive. I'm not saying be afraid. I'm saying be aware. Be very aware.

[quote name='Heinlander' timestamp='1283399215' post='2438841'] Who are they gonna attack? Are you positing some vast silent conspiracy? Because as big as they are, the GPA couldn't take out a full treaty network. It seems more likely that they're serious, and that they're just really really boring and are generally a bad alliance. [/quote] They could if they actually trained and prepared for war on an open basis. But then that blows their cover. So they'll just wait for the inevitable world-breaking throwdown, then come in and wipe out whoever wins. I'll give them credit, it's a brilliantly devious plan. They just need to hope that no one decided to take them out first.

[quote name='Hyperbad' timestamp='1283397769' post='2438820'] Nope, there's nothing of the sort as you suggest going on. No backroom dealing for their security. They stand on their own and others either don't care, can't be bothered, are concerned about the fall out or are sympathetic to their cause. Simply put though everyone has greater concerns than what they are doing. [/quote] That's if you believe what they're saying. I don't. I think they're hiding in plain sight, waiting for their time to strike. They're the quiet ones we always hear about, the unassuming ones that no one ever expects, until they're on the news and everyone is horrified and can't fathom how they could do such a thing. It's always the quiet ones. It's always the silent kid at the back of the class. Don't ever trust them.

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1283396898' post='2438799'] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsogswrH6ck"]Yeah, well, that's just like your opinion man. [/url] [size="1"](mild? profanity warning)[/size] [/quote] If you're gonna tap out of an argument, might as well do it in style. [quote name='Heinlander' timestamp='1283397168' post='2438806'] But that's obviously not going to work, because the second a big war rolls along they're gonna get swept up in it by the one of the more bloodthirsty parties, because why not? Either they're going to have to pick a side to survive or they're gonna get obliterated just from the shockwaves. Or they might possibly survive, which further begs the question why they even exist if they're not going to get involved in wars and not going to get involved in politics, which are literally the driving forces of this world. Whatever their prevailing philosophy is, it's utterly bizarre.[/quote] The best thing they have going for them are their numbers. To attack them would require a significant effort of just raw manpower, and that's not readily available in a large-scale war. It's part of the reason why I don't trust what they say at face value. Either they have an absolutely brilliant plan and are waiting for us to take each other out, or they're shivering cowards that are afraid their own shadow might attack; scared on the level that GATO could only imagine. But you are right, it's utterly bizarre and makes no sense. [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1283397185' post='2438808'] The GPA is a pal of mine in large part because I know I can count on them to get under at least one person's skin by their very existence, and--ignorant and loudmouthed--that person will be compelled to express his thoughts, and I'll be entertained. [/quote] Hey Scattenmann! Was wondering when you were gonna show up, since any time there are a certain number of GOONS posts in a thread you have to stick your head in and grab some attention. By the way, I hope you appreciate that my last tech raid was in your honor. If it wasn't for you I wouldn't have the extra tech I have and someone else wouldn't have their nation in rubble. I do hope you're proud.

[quote name='Heinlander' timestamp='1283396763' post='2438797'] They aren't cowards. They're do-nothings. They entered a community with the express purpose of disavowing involvement with said community, then they lay claim to that position as the moral high ground. Its not cowardice, it's dissonance. [/quote] You are giving them far too much credit. They are completely petrified at the thought of any harm coming to their precious little nations. By pledging complete neutrality, they're desperately trying to keep anyone from knocking at their doors.

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1283395613' post='2438786'] It's kinda cool how you contradict yourself in the same paragraph.[/quote] How have I contradicted myself? If they truly had their way, there would be no GPA member with any kind of ongoing war, either offensive or defensive. They're defending themselves at the very least, but only because it would be foolish not to. They war for basic survival, nothing more, nothing less. [quote]Oh snap son, that's it they are not truly neutral after all by this revealing analysis of yours. Since they obviously are taking sides, even though they have no treaties, what do you say to something like SG giving them another hegemonic roll for old times' sake?[/quote] If someone could, someone would. Methinks they're not being truthful and there are some "hush-hush" backroom deals to keep them alive and afloat, as long as the community doesn't find out. [quote]Back to the world of quasi-sanity, congrats on the new gov GPA. Some of us understand that your independence from the treaty web requires a very special kind of courage, a kind of courage that certain super entangled, sides-straddling treaty web cowards will never understand.[/quote] You can call it bravery all you want. I have a different opinion on their refusal to come out and play with the rest of the world: they're cowards.

The citizens of Xodidox aren't like the rest of us. They're fueled by nuclear power, but not in the traditional sense. It's only the raw power, unleashed by the destruction of a nuclear warhead upon their lands, which keeps the citizenry not just alive, but flourishing. Unfortunately, the citizens are suffering. It has been far too long since they were blessed with a fuel source. Without a constant source of nuclear radiation, they will wither away and ultimately cease to exist. The citizens of Xodidox need your help. Please let it rain nuclear fire upon their lands once again. For only under the oppressive shadow of a mushroom cloud can they truly shine.

[quote name='dy Cazaril' timestamp='1283390282' post='2438720'] Perhaps we simply derive our excitement from different places than you do. [/quote] Watching grass grow and paint dry, I imagine. How's the sand counting project going? [quote name='Ferrozoica Hive' timestamp='1283390411' post='2438721'] As opposed to what, exactly? It takes a lot more work to keep an alliance running smoothly than it does to, say, start a war. [/quote] When you've decided to isolate yourself from the rest of the community, the toughest task isn't playing a minuscule amount of defense against rogues and micros, as they said. It's keeping your membership under the spell that doing nothing is superior than doing anything. Honestly I was surprised that they even did foreign aid deals. I figured true neutrality would prevent them from aiding outside nations and alliances, since that might give favor to one side over another. [quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1283391813' post='2438749'] Changing governments is probably the most exciting thing to happen to most alliances in months. We had that last big war at the beginning of the year, and hardly anybody participated in the 6 million dollar war. Nothing has happened to anyone lately. And besides, I was the most exciting thing to happen to the GPA this year. [/quote] A large part (too much, in fact) of the action comes on here, and in all these backroom IRC channels, with the politicking, plotting and scheming, trash talk, and the like. They've separated themselves from all this as well. The only way I'll give them credit is if this is one giant plot where they're waiting for us all to destroy each other and then they roll in and obliterate whoever is left standing. Otherwise, they're staying out of the pool for no reason.

This is the most exciting thing to happen for them in months. Sad, ain't it?

[quote name='Feuersturm' timestamp='1283294736' post='2437503'] Lets just agree that whoever fights, the non-combatants always win [/quote] Except GATO. But that's what happens when you get shook.

Would you hit Biazt's avatar?

Jesus saves, Esposito scores on the rebound.

If Nation A fires a nuclear missile from Baltimore heading west towards San Francisco at 2:42 EST traveling 224.9 MPH, and Nation B also fires a nuclear missile from Phoenix heading east towards Memphis at 12:34 PST traveling 219.3 MPH, at approximately what time will some limp-wristed moralist start complaining about the rising GRL level and nuclear weapons being used in general? Answers within five minutes either way will be accepted as correct. Please show your work, partial credit will be given for effort, extra credit will be given for humor.

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1283214564' post='2436315'] It's that the "stakes" of the wars are not high enough. [/quote] I disagree, as seen by the recent complaints over war reparations and the GRE. The problem is that there's a noticeable part of the community who are opposed to any kind of war for any kinds of stakes. It can be called "pixel-hugging" anything of the like, but they want to eliminate a core aspect for everyone simply because they don't like it.

[quote name='maxnmike' timestamp='1283146662' post='2435536'] Hmm... I didn't call you any names. I said your statement was incredibly stupid and it was. Now when you have a real counter argument please feel free to come back. [/quote] You have no clue how arguments work, do you? I have made a statement, a factually correct one at that. You have come in here with an (incorrect) counter-argument, which you did not back up in any way. I have successfully swept away everything you have brought so far. You have yet to bring anything to the table other than empty words. It is not my duty to present a counter-argument, it's yours. If you can't do so, step aside and let someone else try. Or you could save us all some time and just admit that I'm better than you.

[quote name='maxnmike' timestamp='1283146029' post='2435527'] Oh, I know how things work. While your statement was indeed bold it was also incredibly stupid and certainly not well thought out. One can only hope the smarter people in GOONS think otherwise. [/quote] So you have no real counter to my claims other than half-hearted name calling? Good to know.

I missed this the first time. [quote name='mythicknight' timestamp='1283140221' post='2435412'] How fitting. [/quote] Fantastic contribution. Well researched, reasoned, and written. Truly those two words shall move mountains. [quote name='maxnmike' timestamp='1283143686' post='2435496'] Ah, but that's not defending yourself, that's getting someone to do it for you. So I guess you don't really believe the crap you spew either now do you. If you are going to make such a bold statement perhaps you should think it through first. [/quote] It's a little thing called power in numbers. If you don't believe me, observe how anything and everything works. My thoughts and statements are bold and true. Take your own advice and think your own statements through. Maybe you'll make a decent one next time.

[quote name='maxnmike' timestamp='1283141063' post='2435434'] If you guys feel this way, why do you have any treaties. After all, if you need allies to help defend you you don't deserve to exist. Will you be disbanding now? [/quote] Proper defense involves joining alliances and having treaties. Honestly, at least try next time.

[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1283124976' post='2435121'] Don't know about fetal, but I'm rolling in money right now. [/quote] Even the guy who gets stretchered out still get paid his show fee.

Don't know why everyone's surprised that an alliance who's only ability is trash talk continues to trash talk even after getting their heads stomped in. I'll give them credit; it takes a special talent to continue to talk smack while in the fetal position.