General Scipio

[quote name='avenger218' timestamp='1300664057' post='2671548'] GOONS and Umbrella acted on information you cooked up and gave them. It's no long shot that this hegemony, like the last one invents CB's. [/quote] What information did they make up? Please do tell us

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1300662231' post='2671500'] I cannot speak for you individually, but about half of the "reason" advanced for Doomhouse's DoW is a complaint about stuff that happened in 2007 and 2008. [/quote] I never mentioned DH's DoW. All I said was that GOONS forces alliances that attack us to pay reps. If you ever defeat us feel free to use the same rules.

[quote name='Guffey' timestamp='1300659899' post='2671468'] So its a crime for someone to attack GOONS, but not a crime for GOONS to attack someone else? [/quote] The victors write the history books. Beat us and enforce our own rules against us. We won't complain.

The grammar insult is stupid and you should both shut up. tia

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1300654147' post='2671345'] [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Goon%20Order%20of%20Oppression%20Negligence%20and%20Sadism"]One[/url], [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?View=Charts&Alliance=Goon%20Order%20Of%20Oppression%20Negligence%20And%20Sadism"]two[/url], [url="http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance%2CReceiving_Alliance&search=Goon%20Order%20Of%20Oppression%20Negligence%20And%20Sadism&anyallexact=exact"]three[/url]. GOONS is running on fumes and everyone knows it. There's no point in pretending otherwise. The question is how long your friends will forgo aid slots to let you keep sucking on their teat. Hehheh. I said teat. BUT BACK ON TOPIC! As I've said before, we'll see where we collectively are a few months down the road. Hope you keep that optimistic attitude of yours Edit for missing words [/quote] You guys really aren't launching that many wars against GOONS anymore. GOONS are launching most of the wars. If we wanted we could just stop launching wars and start rebuilding, your lower tier is so low on money you really couldn't do anything to stop it. We probably won't do that cause little GOONS nations like to fight wars.

[quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1300652101' post='2671311'] You outnumber them to a terrifying degree in the higher tiers and have much higher technology tallies, they would certainly not inflict damage on par with what they receive. [/quote] I think with only being able to take one nuke it would even out. If one nation is launching three nukes and only taking one per day, even with the tech advantage I'd be willing to bet the numbers would be fairly close. I haven't really ran the numbers though so I could be wrong.

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1300649234' post='2671253'] TPF has changed very much. We, the new Government have moved on from what was done in the past. I was not there for it. I do not want to hear about things that Slayer did. Just know what I do and stand for, Loyalty, Honor , and Integrity. You drivel on about the past. We are not driving in reverse so look ahead and watch out for the stuff you've been missing. I march forward to new goals. YES goals. I am not sitting idly by watching reruns like you are. There have been many wrongs done by many alliances, yours included. As for you. Will PB rolling in make you any less a weakling? You need more than the double you already have? That is a shame Muffin(Soft and Sweet). Run with your tail between your legs. You'll always be known as the cowards that had to call more and more friends in because they were too weak. GOONS indeed. From what I have heard and read, you have changed naught. I don't care if you change to gooNs, GoOnS, gOoNs, or any such. Your still the same at the core. MK's lapdogs. Run along now. Your master needs you. [/quote] You claim to stand for loyalty, honour and integrity, but where were you when your MDP ally was hit? Hiding so you're friends in NPO didn't have to fight. And you actually have the nerve to call anyone else a lapdog? Mind boggling.

[quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1300648959' post='2671249'] A month of war isn't really all that easy. The damage they would sustain would almost certainly exceed 50 billion. That they would dish out sizable damage in return is little solace. [/quote] Fighting a month of war [i]in an actual war[/i] is quite an easy term. They would do just as much damage in return, so it's not like Doomhouse is going to win anything in this situation. One month of war's worth of damages are easily repairable when you have the warchests that most of NPO does.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1300647710' post='2671226'] I do believe FAN stated similar things. So no, there is no need since FAN never had too. Face it, if this war reaches 2 years, DH is exactly like NPO of yore. Then all DH needs to do is wait for Karma. [/quote] This argument is quite possibly the stupidest I've ever heard. NPO has an easy out of the war, if they choose not to take they are the ones holding themselves in war. FAN never had the option of surrender. Do you people honestly not see the difference between no option to surrender and a relativly easy one?

[quote name='avenger218' timestamp='1300604736' post='2670952'] TOP says they did nothing to NPO. ok, say NPO pays IRON to go kill MK, than funds IRON's war effort. does that relieve NPO of any responsibility in the war? remember in this scenario it is NPO that essentially hired IRON to kill MK and is funding the war, which makes NPO the assailant and IRON the proxy. TOP not betraying NPO would be TOP staying neutral, or helping NPO either through cash money or direct combat. Liquid Mercury (a TOPper) was Karma;s supreme commander, TOP and MK milcom were #1 and #2 in that war. Liquid Mercury was Karma's #1, Archon was Karma #2. TOP directly used Karma to attack NPO. [/quote] During the Karma negotiations NPO spit in TOP's face, and then expected them to help. Everyone knew TOP was closer to Citadel than NPO. It took a year of excessive paranoia for TOP to finally abandon their incrediably close ties with Citadel. Sure they could have stayed neutral and it wouldn't have affected much, but to insure that would have happened NPO shouldn't have disrespected TOP as they did. At the time of Karma TOP had already voted to cancel all ties with NPO, and process which in TOP took quite some time. Secondly, LM was in Gramlins at the time of Karma, TOP really had nothing to do with the planning of the war. LM was Karma's military commander, at the time TOP's military commander was Salajol, someone who 99% of haven't heard of. Crymson was Grandmaster I believe and his only contribution to Karma was pissing off a lot people on his own side. TOP was far down the list of Karma leaders. To say TOP planned Karma to hit NPO is retarded at best. [quote name='avenger218' timestamp='1300604886' post='2670954'] Unlike TOP there was a point in our history when we were the largest Blue team alliance. We refused to be a Bleu proxy state Bleu attacked us for it. When has TOP ever stood on your own without riding the coat tails of the most powerful alliances? [/quote] You missed the time where TOP was the strongest alliance in the world? It was for over a year, so it was hard to mise. TOP stood on her own during Bi-Poler. TOP abandoned any of it's allies that may hold an independant thought (FOK, Umbrella and Gramlins) and used it's own sphere of influence to attack an entire bloc. A far more ballsy move than anything NADC has ever done.

[quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1300477116' post='2669257'] 76/186 = 18%? You probably make pretty harsh curves. [IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/mhawkcmaster/mk.jpg[/IMG] [/quote] He said percent of NS, not total nations.

[quote name='Achilles' timestamp='1300476992' post='2669253'] Why should NPO have to pay reps or have any terms at all? They aren't the aggressors here. They were attacked, not because of their actions, but because of what they might have done. They were sentenced for something that they hadn't done yet. The only right thing to do here, is peace out of this war and apologize. If anyone should have terms or pay anything, it should be DH. If anyone deserves to be attacked, it's DH. Aggression towards NPO right now is uncalled for. An attack on NPO before they entered the war would have been a great strategy, if NPO was going to enter the war. What the CN population fails to realize is, people take time to build their nations. Years... War is used so stupidly in CN. If you're going to destroy something that people have worked hard for, do it for a good reason. I understand that many of you feel like NPO has done this in the past. Maybe, but they have paid for that. Ungodly reps if I remember correctly. Why is it necessary for them to pay any more? [/quote] There's this thing called the original post. Maybe you should read it before posting

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1300346283' post='2667444'] The fact that your side started the war without any proven reason make any claims that your side make unreasonable. It's only DH's fault and incompetence if they failed to destroy NPO upper tie and it's totally unfair try to punish NPO because of that. [/quote] It's impossible to declare war on someone in peace mode. How could we have possibly destroyed them?

[quote name='Henry' timestamp='1300346218' post='2667442'] I'm not under the impression that white peace with specific dates was on the table. But if it was, I'm sure one of your gov can correct me. [/quote] Ardus has said in this thread that before the agreement was made a specific timeline for peace would be annouced. Read the thread before writing.

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1300346119' post='2667436'] What do you have to lose if it is? What do they have to lose if it is? That alone is enough to make anybody reject these terms. [/quote] DH would have a lot more to lose if it was a trap. No one would ever believe anything we ever said ever. Look at Polar in Bi-Polar. In the end they lost a hell of a lot more than TOP with their crooked actions.

[quote name='Henry' timestamp='1300345834' post='2667427'] By the logic your myriad followers are spewing: it's our choice if we don't come out of peacemode, therefore it's our choice that the war continues. Let us put aside the fact that we didn't choose this war. You, after all, declared war on us. Please explain why you would not offer ridiculous Karma scale reps at the end of 1 month and after we reject said reps, why the war would not continue, by "our choice"? [/quote] I'm not a gov official, but would it be so hard to sign terms before? Something like "On March 24th, 80% of NPO's upper teir are out of peace mode. On April 24th, white peace will be declared Signed DH NPO"

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1300345720' post='2667424'] You are stupid, for calling me stupid for using a stupid argument! Both situations still are similar even, NPO tried to punish FAN with eternal war and failed. DH promises to punish NPO with eternal war if they don't leave peace mode, what make you think that they won't fail soon or later too? The long that this war last will damage both side, while peace mode hurts NPO nations, each aid slot used to sent aid to GOONS is hurting MK/Umbrella capacity of doing their precious tech deals and if not, their warchests too. [/quote]It's not being punished with eternal war when you have a reasonable means to leave the war. The situations cannot be compared. Also, you seem to think that the MK/Umbrella aid is needed to keep fighting the war. It really isn't anymore, The Hopeless Coalition is not declaring many new wars. We can pretty much just rebuild with the aid now. Eventually we'll be rebuilt while still at war and MK and co can go back to buying tech [quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1300345739' post='2667426'] While FAN was never offered terms, this situation is much the same. I'll cross over my points about no way Pacifica could ever count on your word. If this is a trap, which it could very well be, Pacifica isn't getting real terms either, they are just being called out, which Pacifica did quiet often toward FAN. [/quote] It's not a trap, get over it.

[quote name='The Warrior' timestamp='1300345444' post='2667409'] Hmm this sounds vaguely familiar. Gramlins: "accept our proposal of unconditional surrender or face eternal war." [/quote] There is a difference between unconditional surrender and literally no surrender terms. GAH! Why can't people understand something so simple.

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1300345407' post='2667407'] You attack his intelligence simply because he brings up a very good point? I am in favor of this, but what is to stop you from continuing the attack even after the agreed period of time? Your word? That means nothing when being compared to the destruction of their whole alliance. His concerns are valid, and if you could hold your weight in an intellectual conversation you would have ignored the comment, or been able to answer it with more than the fallacy of attacking him. [/quote] No, I'm calling him stupid because it's stupid to compare something to nothing. NPO has terms, FAN never did. You cannot compare the situations. This isn't even comparing apples and oranges, this is comparing apples to literally nothing and thinking the comparison is vaild.

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1300345219' post='2667397'] The issue is not the damage that is to be taken. The issue is the lack of guarantee of peace at the end of that month. At the end of the month, only then will peace discussions begin (as I understand it). By that logic, why the hell bring out the upper tier on the enemy's terms, when peace is not even guaranteed? [/quote] Read the thread. Ardus has said that before this goes on they will dicuss together a timetable for peace. If NPO accepts they will almost certainly know the exact day they will get peace.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1300344931' post='2667385'] Ask FAN about how it ended for NPO when they tried this... [/quote] The difference is FAN was not offered terms. NPO has been. This is a stupid argument and you are stupid for using it.

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1300344660' post='2667378'] Because you're giving an ultimatum to NPO. "Accept our demands or face eternal war". How can you not see the hypocrisy in this? You knowingly went into this war. There are no refunds. Deal with it. [/quote] Is this not every war ever? If NpO had refused to accept the aid term, would VE really be forcing you with eternal war? No. You are making that choice yourself. The terms are offered, they can accept them or you. Deal with it. But really, why is NPO so scared to fight a month of war? Sure you're outnumbered, but there is a limit to how many wars you can face. You will do more damage to your enemies than they do to you. Is this not a positive?

Has anyone pointed out that NPO coming out of Peace mode won't suddenly make them incapable of fighting? They'll still be able to put out the same amount of damage they take. 1 month of war won't significantly cripple banking nations, if they have the billions they should.

GOONS had more points than FEAR btw.

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1300068219' post='2663901'] Congrats to VE, iFOK, FOK and PC on their victory. [/quote] I can't wait until TOP gets to celebrate their victory over Polar was well.