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tehol

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  1. Round 66

    in Cyber Nations Tournament Edition

    Posted · Edited by tehol

    Thanks @admin.


    I propose :

     

    Aid:

    - $25M cash limit, 0 tech, 4000 soldiers

    - 4 aid slots (not 6)

     

    DA starting:

    - $5M cash

    - same tech and infra as round 65

     

    Both suggestions work together to encourage buying soldiers and fighting, while counteracting each other in terms of game-wide cash levels.

     

    edit: also, round should be shorter. 120 days was too long. 60-90 probably good

    edit 2: also if keeping aid, cant forget that infra minimum needs to increase to prevent sending starting round cash. Proposed: 3500 infra instead of 2000

  2. Round 66

    in Cyber Nations Tournament Edition

    Posted

    On 5/2/2024 at 7:07 PM, admin said:

    Thanks tehol.
     

    What I've gathered thus far:

    1. Aid needs to be nerfed but not necessarily removed. I'm interested in what amounts others think aid should be limited to.
    2. Defeat alerts need to be substantially more costly for the defender. I'm interested in what amounts DA's should be.
    3. The round needs to be shorter. 90 days most likely. 

     

    Hi - I think this is basically correct except "nerfed" I think means "keep cash aid, remove tech aid".

     

    Hello - sorry for the wait, been busy.

     

    /drumroll

     

    EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: CNTE SPECIAL ROUND

     

    The following executive summary, with the exception of the parts in italics, is strictly a summary of the survey I circulated - dont shoot the messenger.

     

    (1) Folks like aid, but with likely with modifications (tehol's interpretation of results: keep cash aid, get rid of tech aid, increase FAC infra minimum to 3500 from 2000)

    (2) Folks like the 250 tech bonus in CNSE. 

    (3) Folks like the 5-day resource turnover.

    (4) Folks like supplemental resources (tehol: personally I think they're dumb).

     

    It's not clear to me if folks liked the 120-day round. Personally I think it felt way too long, especially near the end. However, based on the survey results, a number of players claimed to like the long round (at least, at the time they responded circa mid March).

     

    AID: INTERPRETATION & RESULTS

     

    It seems people like aid, but with modifications. Specifically, it seems tech aid bad, cash aid good (?)

    • Tech Aid = Pancake effect: Within AW (and consistent with survey results), there were multiple complaints (and a general feeling of malaise) once folks started getting flattened like pancakes by day 2 of a war (following tech-enhanced super nukes). In other words, tech deterred aggressive gameplay (increased turtling).
    • Cash Aid = Reduced Risk, Higher Aggression: However, there were also numerous instances where players might have quit, but instead kept playing without rerolling due to cash infusion. In other words, cash increased aggressive gameplay (players could recover after overextending, or after a hard war - so more likely to play, and more likely to play aggressively).

    Ignorable side comments: I remain of the view that maybe tech aid would be good if it was truly unlimited... because we could have caught up with Wes maybe? But (a) it simply wasnt possible when building tech at fixed rate of merely 2500/slot, and (b) even if it was possible, the "pancake-effect" would have only gotten worse. I am also of the view that cash aid is extra good (beyond what I say above) for its ability to fuel interesting and unique builds that are subject to the in-game price increases.

     

    Relevant survey results below. Overall folks want to keep aid in CNTE, with a moderate to strong preference toward modifications.

     

    aid-rules-divisively-appreciated.png

     

    aid-but-with-modifications.png

     

    Interestingly, folks thought aid rules made the game more dynamic (which I agree with, ignoring certain tech-based outliers - namely Wes).

     

    AId-is-dynamic.png

     

    Within the "dislikes", I see a theme of folks not liking getting ZI'd quickly (ie, high tech, super nukes, pancake effect):

     

    disliked.pngdisliked2.png

     

    SPECIFIC COMMENTS

     

    Some people sent helpful comments:

     

    IMG-1586.jpg

     

     

    IMG-1456.jpg

    Even the following were good for a laugh:

     

    IMG-1582.jpg

     

    IMG-1583.jpg

     

    OTHER RESULTS (non-aid):

     

    - Tech in CNSE is a hit, as is 5-day resource window:

    tech-bonus-a-hit.png

     

     

    - Round was likely too long (although note 10 people said they liked it above, and only three disliked it below)

     

    round-was-too-long.png

     

    Apparently people like supplemental resources. Personally I think they're dumb:

     

    apparently-supplemental-resources-OK.png

     

    CONCLUSION

     

    See executive summary above. 

     

    Folks liked the round more than prior rounds (at least, circa poll date).

     

    Thank you admin for implementing the aid suggestion, and thank you everyone for playing and completing the survey!

     

    round-enjoyed.png

    Round-more-fun-maybe.png

     

     

     

    FLAWS IN POLL?

    - I'm not a pollster and I probably made polling booboos, although I tried to phrase questions neutrally.

    - 19 responses is *not* everyone.

    - I sent the poll about 75% into the round, so people's views might have changed.

     

    IMG-1587.jpg

  4. Round 66

    in Cyber Nations Tournament Edition

    Posted

    10 hours ago, admin said:

    Is there a consensus on how aid needs to be revised if it remains in place for round 66?

    I will provide analysis and info from survey i sent in the next couple days.

     

    my intuition is that cash aid was actually OK but tech aid (at least as implemented with the “low” cap of 2500) doesnt work. Will explain when i have time (tonight? Saturday?)

  8. The Church of Admin LIVES!

    in Tournament Edition Open World Forum

    Posted · Edited by tehol
    typo

    10 hours ago, admin said:

    We were starting to see some gameplay that went against the intent behind enabling foreign aid in Tournament Edition. The intent, as per the original suggestion, was to restrict the FAC wonder to require 2,000 infras in order "to prevent abusing cash received upon starting a new nation. Nations must build before sending aid." We were seeing zero day old nations acquire over 2,000 infras, purchase the FAC, and begin sending foreign aid on their first day. A requirement that a nations must be 14 days old before sending/receiving foreign aid has been added. New nation creation has been re-enabled.

     

    Johnny is right about some of the back-end mechanics. Forgive me, it's been over 18 years since I coded some of this stuff and I missed some of the impacts when adding unlimited foreign aid. This is why even after this long, the game is still technically in beta as per the terms, because I have and will continue to make changes on the fly in order to address concerns like this as they arise. 

    I think this is fair re new nations sending out tech, thanks Admin. Probably 2000 infra should have been 3000 infra. I was trying to estimate enough infra to require a serious build + collection, but it had been too long since I played TE.

     

    Too bad about the cap, though I understand there’s a buffer limit.

  9. The Church of Admin LIVES!

    in Tournament Edition Open World Forum

    Posted · Edited by tehol

    13 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

     

    one result is known and it's uncapped aid might fry the planet and the other planet we live on if a large enough amount of something was sent, the forces of entropy are not to be taken llightly!

    I agree that to truly attempt the experiment uncapped is needed. We havent yet hit infra levels where infra becomes super expensive. Nor have we yet built up tech reserves. I am convinced that the increasing costs of things naturally causes diminishing returns to unlimited aid.

     

    iI agree the game strategy is significantly shifted (and likely evolving) but that was kinda the point

     

    edit: for example, the strategy i attempted with firingline totally fails if FL or Warden absconded with my cash

  10. The Church of Admin LIVES!

    in Tournament Edition Open World Forum

    Posted

    8 hours ago, admin said:

    Been thinking about this, unlimited foreign aid will break the game completely. I'm going to keep foreign aid on for the remainder of this round, but limit it to 50,000,000 cash and 2,500 tech. 

    Thank you for the change in any event this round. May I ask to confirm if you think it breaks gameplay or if it risks causing server issues?

  15. Special cnte round

    in Tournament Edition Suggestions

    Posted

    Hello,


    I propose a special cnte round:

    - aid slots permitted, but need FAC wonder first

    - FAC has infra minimum (eg, 2000 infra required to buy)

    - *no cap* on sending tech or cash

     

    The idea is to test this suggestion: 

     


    The reason for needing the FAC wonder before sending aid is to prevent abusing cash received upon starting a new nation. Nations must build before sending aid.

     

    The other normal CNTE modifications (cheaper infra for rebuilding, income bonuses etc) should stay the same. The GOAL is to recreate CNSE in a short window (highly unequal nations) and see what happens without caps on aid. For this special round to really be interesting I think it should be a longer round, perhaps 120+ days. Around day 80-90 I recall many nations are able to get into the 5-6k infra range, which is starting to be mid tier in cnse.

     

    thanks

    tehol

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