Kilkenny

The problem comes from all the stuff open to interpretation. Those that they deem deserving, excessive damage, etc. Leaves it open to decide what they want it to say at any time they want to attack nations they can bully.

* Feels like someone is watching him!!!!

I'll go ahead and respond here for those to lazy to actually look it up. THIS post is what I was refering to. If you are going to jump in mid conversation, at least read back to catch up. The difference between The Red Doctrine and this one?? NPO doesn't tech raid and says stay out of our lawn. PC says don't attack but raids themselves. The Doctrine has been changing and yet still is rather vague about things, seemingly on purpose. And yes, I know they don't much now, but remember all those troubles from their raiding practices in the past?? Entire alliances waking up to find raiders on board?? Anyone remember the Tech Raid Lottery?? One does so with honor and earns respect...one doesn't. The Phoenix Hungers

psh, we knew about you months ago...... :lol: but we still you.

Then try it out and see how girly we are.

Then go back and read my post. Also it does apply. Your Doctrine leaves everything open to your interpretation. I am telling you that my actions are not dictated by YOUR interpretations. My actions will be dictated by TPF policy and MY judgement, no one else's. Again problems with that, catch me elsewhere. The Phoenix Hungers

I will. Tell you what, switch to red and attack a member of TPF and see what happens. either one of you. The Phoenix Hungers

Quoted for the truth. I will not hesitate to call out the Phoenix on ANY nation regardless of team color. I will not leave my decision to send nations to attack to be dictated by another. Determinations as to who to attack and the attacks to use are mine alone, and will be made by me. I do not care if it is determined that we used excessive force by someone else. I will make the Military Decisions for The Phoenix Federation. Problems with that policy can be addressed to me outside of this forum, or just try me. The Phoenix Hungers edit: The Raiding habits of teh signators does make this LOL though

Ok, wow. It seems like basic counter-espionage 101 course was not taken by most of Planet Bob. The Canery trap is sooooo basic and overplayed everywhere that it is funny that it worked. Takes aboout 20 seconds to comeup with the idea and not that long to get it going. If ES is spending massive amounts of time on such things, he is in the wrong business. Of course a couple posts later it isn't such a big deal....I'm thinking meds would help with the confusion. And Spai's are bad MKay?? doesn't matter who sent them, or what they have access to. anyone can come across something worth while at anytime. Things happen. So, you out spai's and keep looking. Yeah, just cause we caught one, doesn't mean we stopped looking for others. Who knows, another Thread might be started soon with another spy getting hit...........

Forget for a moment the fact that ES and Vox got PWNED Can you imagine the moment when they learned it was a set up and they were found out. I mean from the reactions there were tons of people gloating and enjoying the imagined split.....only to have the dreams crushed, dashed and destroyed. ROFLMAO :lol: o/ Mhawk o/ Slayer o/ Kilkenny o/ TPF

I love these cut and paste quotes, esp where you dodge the fact you were "negotiating" your repayment. Nice choice of words you had there, and I figure that GRAN pretty much had it right. Lucky for you you convinced someone else to back you. Wonder how long before that bites them in the butt?? If you were so willing to repay, why peace mode?? Can't repay from there, but you can hide. LOLOLOLOL at your playing by the rule book, That was too funny. (That rule book you have must have been missing the pages about how to actually leave your alliance). You of course have demonstrated your good faith..... snicker snicker Funny, you demand complete accuracy from GRAN, yet you are just guessing at numbers..... hypocriscy at it's best

How about what you owed?? That seems to be Nemesis's big objection to GRAN's 60 mil, and the crying about GRAN lying about it. Bottom line, you accepted aid for buying a MP, which you did. It doesn't matter how much money they gave you directly. If they say you owe 60 mil, you owe 60 mil. It isn't just the money you took. If they hadn't fed the money to you, they could have fed it to another nation. It isn't just the loss of the money, but the MP the allaince no longer has, the 20 nukes they no longer have, the time they have to invest in another nation just to get back up to where they were when you left. There is all that too. For future information, going into peace mode even before talking ablout repaying, nice how you refer to paying them back as negotiating, does not signal good intentions on your part. That plus "negotiating" paying them back, signals your intention to screw them out of as much money as possible, until you were sentenced to ZI. Kinda screwed up plans, huh. Good faith on your part would have been to remain in war mode and ask for the link to the first 5 nations to receive repayment, not negotiating your repayment.

What is even more funny is that Captain Flinders lied as much or even more and you don't seem to care. That seems to be agenda driven to me. So don't look at me for sympathy, esp if when it backfires on you. And btw, any debate I wish to join is Reason enough, I am Kilkenny The Phoenix Hungers

I've seen logs, plenty of logs......mostly seems to me a bunch of hunting around for reasons ot be upset. Lotta whining if you ask me, but eh. We will see what happens in the end.

That's what we like about you Slayer Can't understand why eveyone wouldn't want ot read what you say either.

LOL, what game is there to lose?? Wait, what was it you said, I think someone got a little courage and you decieded to tag along and see if you could get some. Sorry Scarecrow, it doens't work that way.

Nice of you to agree with me there. See that wasn't so hard was it?? Cut and Paste quotes FTW.

Sorry, not enough there to tell what his tone was before that. Seemed rather like a smart butt there, if that is the way he conducted the rest of the conversation, i don't blame GRAN. Talk very well may have happened but if they don't reach an agreement, then bad things happen. Talks don't ness mean things work out.

uhm, says 100 tech there, and it is 60mil now. These logs are being presented as proof Flinders was trying to work out payment, of the money he owes as part of the mp program. yet it is talking about 100 Tech. So these are either the wrong logs, miss edited or just the wrong issue all together. That is what I am talking about. Can't see how this conversation about 100 Tech is the same as 60 mil. Not seeing it.

Wow someone is getting screwed. My admiration for GRAN went through the roof. I mean those logs are talking about 100 Tech and then they got 60 mil for it?!?!?!?!?!!?!? WOW, 60 mil instead of 100 Tech. That is awesome. I must learn how to do that. of course now that I said that I am sure the next edited log will have 60 mil instead of 100 Tech. Again, fault on both sides, not just one. BTW, cut and paste logs are so last season.

Given his current track record of accepting a costly build up program and then leaving? I think it is safe to say that we won't be finding out anytime soon. Nice to know that yall don't care if someone takes your money and then leaves though.

So what you are saying is they were trying to get him to pay $120 mil?? (2x60=100). GRAN claimed teh program was designed to give him 60 mil and he completed the program. Flinders stated that he guesses the amount was really 33 mil. No where was any amount discussed that stated 66 mil or 120 mil, the double amounts listed. Did they change their charter because of this event? most likely just to prevent something like this from happening again. And, Flinders did state he was willing to repay what he owed, but only after being placed on teh ZI list and while he was in peace mode. Seems like the time to say I will repay is before being placed on a ZI list, not after. Remember the OP in the WE are ZI'ing thread was not to open a debate, but to announce what had been decided.

Yah know, my opinion of you just keeps decreasing with every post you make. It seems to me that the prudent thing would have been to talk about repayment when he resigned. Having left TPF at one point, the first thing I did before posting a resignation was to check the status of any programs I was in to see if all time requirements had expired. Given that they had I just posted a resignation. If they hadn't my resignation post would have included re-payment plan. Nothing I have said stated that Flinders was solely to blame in this accountants nightmare, but everyone else seems to blame only GRAN, and believes totally Flinders rough estimation of what he received. If that is good for you, good to know that you can be taken advantage of that way. But for me I like better records than that. All I have been doing is pointing out the other party in this train wreck of an aid nightmare, who everyone seems ot be giving a pass on. BTW, I would have ZI'd him for 33 mil too, not just 60 mil. Aid theft is aid theft no matter the amount.

I have read it, from front to back. Just answering your post.