ktarthan

Oh boy, that sure is a lot of words, mister. But, I like them and what they say.

[quote name='The Reccesion' date='16 April 2010 - 12:44 PM' timestamp='1271447026' post='2263065'] [b]I'm not saying your scared[/b]. If Nippy can talk smack, then you should allow him to fight. I mean a nuke or two is nothing... [/quote] ... are you for real? [quote name='The Reccesion' date='16 April 2010 - 12:40 PM' timestamp='1271446831' post='2263061'] Then don't talk smack if [b]your scared[/b] of a little bit of damage. [/quote] That was literally only four minutes ago. Is your memory really that short? Edit: highlighting the problem

[quote name='The Reccesion' date='16 April 2010 - 12:40 PM' timestamp='1271446831' post='2263061'] Then don't talk smack if your scared of a little bit of damage. [/quote] *sigh* I truly wish people would grow as tired of making this argument as I am of refuting it. [b]Why in the world would we put ourselves in the way of more harm than necessary?[/b] If we can prevent damage, we will! This does not mean that we are scared of it by any stretch. The leap of logic needed to make this assertion astounds me. Edit: clarity

[quote name='The Reccesion' date='16 April 2010 - 12:28 PM' timestamp='1271446092' post='2263044'] Uhmm no? This was a reply to an earlier post when this thread was young. It's a simple concept. If you say your gonna ZI someone, attempt it. Don't go sanctioning and then asking for help. [/quote] 1) Nippy attacked before talks of sanctions 2) At no point did Nippy say how Methrage would reach ZI, or that he'd do it alone 3) Where are we asking for help?

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='16 April 2010 - 08:48 AM' timestamp='1271432866' post='2262852'] A recognition of hostilities isn't a DoW. As you note, he's talking about a CSA member who was in a defensive war with you, and he didn't declare war with the other half () of Citadel. Also, to use that argument makes it an alliance war (an alliance recognising a state of war) rather than a rogue incident and, again, sanctions are not then justified. And in that analogy, you are aiding the nation in their fight against the Spoons, not paying it to fight for you ... since it's fighting already and doesn't take on any more wars as a condition of the aid, that's pretty clear. [/quote] No, it was not a recognition of hostilities - it was a "recognition of a state of war" before GOONS had taken any aggressive actions against Methrage. There were no hostilities to be recognized at the time, other than the ones he conjured up himself. He stuck his nose in our business, aided and abetted our enemy, had the audacity to demand we cease valid attacks, and then declared himself at war with GOONS, all the while asking for third parties to aid him in his aggression. My argument has nothing to do with it being an alliance war - Methrage is not in an entity that GOONS considers an alliance. My argument is that his actions were entirely aggressive; his intention is to cause harm to GOONS, and we had every reason to believe he would continue to act on this intention. The fact that he used the phrase "The Citadel" in that declaration instead of "I, Methrage" is entirely moot, because aside from the ex-CSA nation he was aiding, he was the only person in The Citadel. Edit: as for the "he didn't declare war with the other half of The Citadel" - This is just silly. In context there is no ambiguity as to what he was referring to. I would also like to point out that Methrage himself admits that he aided our enemy and that it would be considered an act of war, but the only defense he offers is: [quote name='Methrage' date='15 April 2010 - 09:37 PM' timestamp='1271392643' post='2262251'] It started with you guys saying you didn't consider the aid I sent to count since you got the guy deleted, so we weren't really at war. Then suddenly several weeks later I get demands for surrender and declared on by nippy while already fighting a tech raider and Gremlin. Also I had more members when declaring any wars. [/quote] [quote name='Methrage' date='15 April 2010 - 09:54 PM' timestamp='1271393649' post='2262276'] It did go away, that transaction and nation vanished, as well as you guys saying you didn't consider it an act of war at the time. [/quote] (He uses this argument a couple more times but it was getting lengthy. Also the part about "a few weeks later"? Hah! It was at the very most 4 or 5 days.) This is entirely false, and any attempts to contradict or disprove him have either been dodged or ignored completely.

Presenting Exhibit B from the GOONS War Declaration thread: [quote name='Methrage'] The Citadel recognizes a state of war to exist between The Citadel and GOONS considering they are at war with half of Citadel and continue their attacks after being asked to cease by the offended party. Any who want to join in on our side to hurt GOONS a little are welcome to enter on our behalf. [/quote] This was posted on the 9th, before any actions had been taken against Methrage himself. (The "half of Citadel" he talks about is the CSA member that switched to The Citadel's AA after we had attacked) Bob... what were you saying about aggression? If someone posts a DoW on the OWF but doesn't launch attacks before its target, would it still get the "defensive" side?

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 02:02 AM' timestamp='1271408555' post='2262634'] That is how you mitigate sanctions but it does not address the fact that sanctions are weapons that cannot be retaliated against. [/quote] I hear that my citizens don't like taxes because they can't tax me back. It does not make sense to say that all actions should allow reciprocity.

[quote name='Biazt' date='16 April 2010 - 12:57 AM' timestamp='1271404603' post='2262604'] *creates one man alliance* *declares war* *is not a rogue* [/quote] No dude, you need two members. [quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 12:56 AM' timestamp='1271404571' post='2262602'] 1) Make me. 2) I did. 3) I have. [/quote] In that case, I'm sorry. Your problem extends beyond the realm of my ability to point out the obvious. There's nothing I can do for you further.

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 12:44 AM' timestamp='1271403830' post='2262588'] First of all this isn't about TOP. I'm not sure why they keep coming up. What I don't like about this is that Goons seem to be intervening in Methrage's war with Gramlins when they are completely capable of defending themselves. [/quote] 1) Stop talking. 2) Read this entire thread: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84016 3) Make an informed decision about who is interfering with whom.

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 12:37 AM' timestamp='1271403453' post='2262580'] Then explain to me what the CN definition of a rogue is, professor. Because there seems to be a difference of opinion. You think a rogue is someone who sends aid to a nation at war and I sincerely believe that makes you look like an idiot. [/quote] We believe that a rogue is an unaligned nation which perpetrates acts of war against an alliance. GOONS considers aiding and abetting a nation/alliance that we are currently at war with to be an act of war. Thus, rogue.

[quote name='Methrage' date='15 April 2010 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1271399702' post='2262492'] I remember, but you guys said you wouldn't recognize that as war so it was resolved already. A week later suddenly I start getting surrender terms sent to me as I hear conflicting things on whether we are at war. Then you guys say again that doesn't mean we are at war, then I get declared on and you say I'm nuclear rogue. If you weren't able to convince Umbrella to sanction me, you guys wouldn't of had the balls to attack at all. [/quote] Quit lying, please. It is unbecoming. Point out where we said that you were absolved of your wrongdoings, please. I would [b]love[/b] to see the mental backflips you have taken to convince yourself that we have said this. Also, Nippy attacked you before we even talked with Umbrella, so what are you even trying to argue this for? [quote name='Methrage' date='16 April 2010 - 12:13 AM' timestamp='1271402000' post='2262545'] Keep telling yourself that, rogue can mean anything. Your own charter could place any numbered alliance under the definition of rogue with your closet clause. [/quote] Again, [b]false[/b]. The GOONS closet has the right to define what it considers an alliance, beyond the definition provided by our charter, in atypical circumstances. However "rogue" is not a word spoken in our charter, therefore it is something held up to community standards. We consider you a rogue, and Umbrella (as well as many others) agree. Therefore, sanction.

[quote name='Methrage' date='15 April 2010 - 11:28 PM' timestamp='1271399269' post='2262482'] I did nothing to Umbrella, you guys told them to sanction me. Apparently they do as GOONS tell them, although its disappointing Umbrella would let an alliance like you lead them on. I didn't do much of anything other than post on the forum and declare on Gremlins, Umbrella has already said its because you guys asked them and nothing to do with Gremlins. [/quote] Why do you keep lying to me like this? I'm starting to feel you don't value this relationship. [b]You aided and abetted a nation that was at war with GOONS why is this so hard for you to remember[/b]

[quote name='Methrage' date='15 April 2010 - 10:20 PM' timestamp='1271395195' post='2262337'] You didn't say you recognized that, wouldn't consider it war, etc. Peace had already been settled in that matter by nobody declaring at the time and you guys saying you didn't think we were at war. Then several days later when I'm down a few thousand infra I get 2 GOONS declare on me and convince Umbrella to sanction me, as I know a fair fight isn't something GOONS can win ever. [/quote] Now... I find this a very interesting statement for you to make. Let me introduce Exhibit A from the GOONS War Declaration thread: [quote name='Methrage'] Edit: Once my wars clear and I have 7 nukes stocked maybe I'll just one on one nippy for lulz and consider this over after a cycle of war with him. Since no one is going declare on me I hardly consider myself at a state of war with them, although I don't know if they are trying to troll me out of attacking, but it doesn't work that way. [/quote] First, you state that you'd need to restock nukes in order to declare on a nation without an MP or SDI in a one on one. [b]Real[/b] fair fight. Then second, [b]you[/b] decide that you aren't in a state of war with GOONS. Sorry bub, but once you have committed acts of war against GOONS, that is no longer up to you to decide.

[quote name='janax' date='15 April 2010 - 09:27 PM' timestamp='1271392044' post='2262242'] You attack Methrage....so he's a nuclear rogue. Yah, that makes sense. I really wish I had uranium right now. In fact, feel free to tech raid us. [/quote] Please do not comment on an issue that you have not the knowledge to comment on. This issue extends far before we did indeed attack him. Edit: Wow, bad luck on speed tonight.

[quote name='Infidel Israeli' date='15 April 2010 - 09:15 PM' timestamp='1271391317' post='2262233'] I read this thinking it was going to be interesting...nope, just methrage. Though GOONS, still kinda sad you had to sanction him. [/quote] Please, please. Do note that there is a distinction between "had to" and "wanted to". We of all people are not afraid of a little radiation, but when we have the power to strip a nuclear rogue of his ability to build nukes, why would we not? Also it results in threads like this, which are entertaining enough on their own. Edit: Nippy, Nippy, fast as lightning!

"No! I must kill the GOONS" he shouted The radio said "No, Methrage. You are the GOONS" And then Methrage was sanctioned.

Congrats, feels good man.

[quote name='Baldr' date='15 April 2010 - 08:11 AM' timestamp='1271344287' post='2261350'] So this is how you work now? You attack a micro alliance and extort them for terms? [/quote] Not just small alliances - we do the same thing for unaligned nations, too.

Methrage, Red Rum is getting peace - you can let this topic die. It's okay man. Let it go. PS: If you think gov organized this raid you're sadly mistaken. Many goons like to watch the alliance war screen. Honestly, look at the declaration times. If that was supposed to be [b]organized[/b] I would have to have a word with the organizers.

It's also about the dozenth time you've threatened GOONS as if it was something we really cared about.

[quote name='nippy' date='13 April 2010 - 11:08 PM' timestamp='1271225277' post='2259790'] Do you even know what OSA stands for? [/quote] I'm not sure [b]what[/b] Methrage knows at this point. It seems he is slipping further and further into madness.

[quote name='Methrage' date='13 April 2010 - 01:11 PM' timestamp='1271189447' post='2258968'] So you broke your charter by recognizing CSA as an alliance. [/quote] Here, let me help you. [quote name='GOONS Charter'] Exceptions may be made both for smaller groups we wish to recognize and larger groups we do not, should the closet so decide. [/quote]

[quote name='Methrage' date='13 April 2010 - 01:08 PM' timestamp='1271189277' post='2258960'] Since when was 11 members not an alliance? You make this up as you go along? [/quote] [url=http://cn.goonbase.com/index.php?topic=707.0]Check out our alliance charter. It's a pretty good read.[/url]

[quote name='Methrage' date='13 April 2010 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1271189088' post='2258956'] I see you've decided that now that you're tech raiding them. [/quote] And? Please make a point.

[quote name='Methrage' date='13 April 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1271188590' post='2258947'] [url="http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance,Receiving_Alliance&search=Red%20Rum&anyallexact=exact"]red rum wars[/url] 11 man alliance tech raid? [/quote] Red Rum is not an alliance.