Lonely

Is that useless Internal Affairs IO Sir Donald R Deamon still around? Sad to see DarkMistress go, I suppose. I might stretch it and state that hawk 11 will be a loss. Can't really say the same about Umbrae. Loucifer's the best appointment of the lot.

You seriously believe that most people who play this game are nice people!!??? I wish I shared your optimism....

Speaking with Vladimir about Francoism is like speaking to God about religion.... this is right, and this is wrong! Heh. Nevertheless, in order to secure ones position as a dominant hegemony (or in euphemistic terms, to emancipate the individual by the proliferation of the Order) the Order needs to surround itself with MADPs and that is the treaty manipulation I refer to. The Order realised this, and surrounded itself with One Vision and The Continuum. It might have worked, too, except that blocs consisting of alliances who simply want to kick up to the big kid on the bloc are not as stable as blocs formed by true friends with a similar culture and history.

I know, I know... it's just fun poking holes in it. The new Godwin's law of Cyber Nations.... all threads will involve Francoism. I'm not complaining, it's fun.

Really? So you deny that Pacifica manipulated the MADP web in order to surround itself with allies for its own protection? Because that is what I cited you on. From what I understood, it featured in Francoist theory, and if it doesn't, it seems evident Pacifica isn't Francoist, because that's exactly what you did. I never claimed you believed in multipolarity.

Don't you realise that makes all the difference in the world? Pacifica surrounded itself with MADP allies to prevent itself from getting rolled. This actually features in Vladimir's articles if you read them sometime. Once Pacifica was no longer the centre of everything, the MADP web fell apart to form the multi-polar world we know today. There are four distinct blocs- SuperFriends, Citadel, Frostbite and CnG, and modern politics involve the interactions between them. Thanks for making that clear. I was under the impression after he joined, he didn't leave. Shortly before the Senate and Vox Dei positions were created and the full implications of fighting for months were beginning to hit.

I don't think additions to the game (or lack of them) are what is causing this exodus of notable players from the game. There's no discrepancy between the number of additions made to the game before the Karma War (which incidentally was when most of these players still played) and after the Karma War (which is when people began to leave.) If there was, then perhaps I would agree with you, Cheeky, but even then that's only incidental evidence. The difference is the political situation. It's fascinating- I'd never have guessed that CN would become more stagnant after the MADP web was destroyed than it was beforehand (I mean in terms of players leaving- obviously there are things happening in CN at the moment, you only need to read the CNF to determine that much, although nothing is actually flaring up into war, unfortunately.)

It's simple... Electron Sponge wasn't suited to life as an ordinary alliance member. I have difficulty imagining him anything less than Emperor (although obviously he wasn't Emperor when Tygaland was still in command over there.) When he lost his position as Emperor, he almost quit the game before joining Vox, which was originally intended to be a small group of mates having fun and hurting NPO however they could. He was perfectly suited to Vox, for numerous different reasons, and stayed there for the entire course of its existence (although Vox nearly disbanded at one point, when he began to apply for alliances like ODN.) Once Vox's mission was completed and NPO was being destroyed, Sponge lost interest in the game. No doubt he'll return at some point. Doitzel is similar. He was a great member within Pacifica, once he published De Profundis, Vox was the alliance best suited to him (otherwise he would've quit with Manic Monday.) He couldn't get into government - or even an alliance - while on Pacifica's PZI list, so he didn't really have anywhere else to go. Nine months later, Vox's job was done, and Doitzel founded The Jedi Order with some old friends and went inactive. This was because with Pacifica's downfall, he (like many other Voxians) lost his purpose in this game. I think it's tragic that an alliance that spent so long attempting to create a better future for Cyber Nations is now unable to live in it.

Further to my essay on the causes and effects of the Karma War, I have found it necessary to elaborate on the intellectual basis of my thesis that ideas drive the progression of history. If you are not interested in intellectual or philosophical thought, I request that you refrain from cluttering the thread with comments to that effect. Your objections are noted. There is a flow to history, and culture. This flow is rooted and has its wellspring in the minds of people. People are unique in the inner life of the mind- what they are in the thought world determines how they act. This is true of their values systems and of their creativity. It is true of their corporate actions, such as political decisions, and it is true of their personal lives. The results of their thought world flow through their fingers or from their tongues into the external world. This is true of the writer’s pen and a conquering Pacifican sword. People have presuppositions, and they will live more consistently on the basis of these presuppositions than even they themselves may realise. By presuppositions, we mean the basic way an individual looks at life, their basic worldview, the grid through which they see the world. Presuppositions rest upon that which a person considers the truth of what exists. People’s presuppositions lay a grid for all they bring forth into the external world. Their presuppositions also provide the basis for their values and therefore the basis for their decisions. Most people catch their presuppositions from their alliance and people they associate with the same way children catch measles. People with more understanding realise that their presuppositions should be a conscious choice, chosen after a careful consideration of what worldview they believe is true, that is, true in the objective sense, not ‘what is true for me.’ However, these people are few and far between. They tend to dominate the presuppositions of the masses and cause change and progression in ideas because they are in a unique position to do so. The progression of history is thus caused by the pursuit of truth by a minority and the ideas that come of that, and what these people do with their ideas. However, due to the fact that presuppositions are often overlooked by the masses, ideas are often underrated, as are alliances such as Vox Populi which are solely dedicated to spreading an idea or cause.

You're incorrect. The limitations you impose on yourself do restrict what you do. Thus, the widespread belief in sovereignty can certainly limit the progression of history, and people like me are contributing to the destruction of that stagnancy the best way we can. Ironically, several months ago that might have meant supporting ethics and perhaps even sovereignty, to an extent. Now, however, it does not. You have very little idea of what motivates me and I suggest you stop attempting to guess. It only makes you look foolish.

So what are you suggesting? That I sit here and pretend that I love the fact that nothing is happening yet? Please. Get realistic. In these sovereignty debates, perhaps people will come to recognise that sovereignty, convention, ethics and all the rest of this nonsense is obstructing the political system. If anti-establishment rabble rousers like myself persuade people here and now of those simple facts, perhaps it can contribute to shattering the boredom, and at the very least, it provides me with something to do until I blow up nations in the next war. I find it ironic and rather amusing that you claim that I am the cause of the stagnancy.

I suppose I've been insensitive. I should've known comments about alliances that do something, relevant alliances, would touch a nerve with a member of The Moralist Front. I'm a member of the New Sith Order. I'm doing more to contribute to this community than you or your ilk ever will. 'Sovereignty' is not going to get in the way of our desire to cause things to happen in the community. Don't like what I have to say? Why don't you do something about it?

Three whole months since the Karma War? But that's three whole months with nothing to live for! Why don't I do something? There's only so much you can do as a non-government member, and I'm not active or motivated enough for such a thing right now. I can't even be bothered passing the Sith academy. Instead, I like to contribute to these forums with content-filled posts, which is rather unusual in this lunatic asylum.

[OOC] Correct, but I maintain my own views on the best way to play this game. [/OOC] I suppose sovereignty in itself is not crap, but there's a lot of crap surrounding the extent of sovereignty that simply detracts from the excitement in the political situation at the moment, and things are already quite stagnant enough, in my opinion. I'm tired of waiting for something to happen. Maybe we will. I'm personally too inactive to cause anything. On the contrary, we push convention all the time, see the recruitment from neutrals incident. Rather, we have a revolutionary new challenges system that allows for new members to achieve high government and shatters the glass ceiling. This sets us apart from every other alliance I can think of. We've got a real pair of balls and dare to behave dangerously quite frequently. I fail to see how this supports your premise that 'the Sith follow the same basic principles as every other alliance.' I see no similarity between the Sith and, for example, the Optional Defense Network.

Oh, for the love of God, [OOC] Cyber Nations is a GAME. [/OOC] That means exploring boundaries, breaking conventions, and daring to do what nobody else dares to do. Toy with things however possible! This sovereignty crap shouldn't come into it. Of course, not everyone is like this, only a select few who dare to make things exciting. That is why I am proud to be a Sith.

I'm not harassing anyone, I'm stating my opinions. As for the aid offers, I'll go and accept them now. I've not been very active, exactly, and I'm barely interested in building a nation anyway.

Mm...... you could've kicked her out and been kind about it. Then again, you are the Emperor of the New Pacific Order. You're /bound/ to be a nice person.

I don't know, although I've agreed with Francesca on several points previously, I don't much like her as a person. This comes across as a massive attention thread. That having been said, Cortath treated her overly harshly. He should have treated her with a modicum of decency, instead he chose to act like some sort of god. Power going to his head much?

Electron Sponge was an excellent character. Slayer was just... well..... Slayer.

I think that's incredibly unlikely.

There are tensions in several different places at the moment. There could be a massive war involving CDT, there could be a massive war as a result of orange tensions, and if it's the latter CDT will probably be involved anyway. I think this will likely come to fruition by the end of the year, but perhaps it could take until January or February. Difficult to predict now, but people will get bored over the holidays.

Waaaaaaait up, who are you Brengstklau? And King Alias, you are never sarcastic, you mean everything you say. Right

My compliments on avoiding the curbstomp. It certainly required some excellent diplomacy.

Well, put it this way, anyone familiar with CDT’s history knows SuperFriends hates CDT. This goes back a long time. CDT will have a role in the next major war, and I have a vested interest in the outcome of that war. There is much history between maroon and CDT.... RIA, GOD, MA, CSN... they have been moving away from CDT for some time. I thought that this was an indication that in the IRON/ODN war, that they would take the opposite side to the remaining alliances in CDT. This was important, because several CDT alliances might come in on ODN’s side – UPN have an MDoAP with ODN – but it’s difficult to tell at the moment.

Typoninja, do you deny that negotiations of this nature, regarding war, took place today? That internal conflict has taken place recently in Ordo Verde, when Sethb returned and wanted to retake his position as Emperor, despite the fact that the charter had changed to a triumvirate? Do you deny that you supported Sethb?