ochocinco

Congratulations! Amazing!

As I said - I misworded my comment. What I meant is that it is not fruitful for me to argue with those who defend what KM did. Clearly, it seems your perspective on the topic seems to be one which is more apt to comment on the situation from than mine. I apologize whole heartedly, not just as a losing combatant on the CN forums. My words were inappropriate, and I have nothing but admiration for your opinion in context. Perhaps one day I will be as open minded as you.

My apologies: my comment crossed the line - I didn't intend for it to be offensive. It was misworded.

I'm not saying anyone who doesn't think KM should be ZI'd is a Nazi apologist. I just don't understand how so many people are suddenly OK with Nazi jokes. OOC: To be fair - there's a difference between something like "The Producers," and just taking a picture of yourself getting saluted by a group of friends as though it's funny. One is thoughtful and pointed, one is not. Perhaps things are not as cut and dry as I've been arguing, but I think what KM did falls squarely out of the gray area.

OOC: And you think it's funny to photograph yourself with a group of people giving you a Nazi salute? It isn't! Some things are off limits, no matter what the context, no matter what the circumstance. Period. I'm not in favor of censorship, but sometimes when one exercises one's right to free speech one must then pay the price for what one expresses.

I think this is pretty accurate - who remembers when noWedge wanted to PZI all of BAPS? Who remembers who stopped it (it was the guy I just quoted). There are some alliances that are guilty of overusing PZI, I don't think TPF is one of them.

Once again, it seems there is no point in arguing with the Nazi apologists. Sorry for being "too cool for jokes." I guess my human sensibilities are too conservative for these boards.

My care for why he is on a ZI list is (like my care for that one dude's opinion of me) very low. Mostly I'm just glad that someone is still keeping him there, since I'm one of those "tools" that can't get past the ideological bit. KM says he's only guilty of not moderating NoV's members properly. "Joke" photos show otherwise. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: some things are just not funny. @GLU: I'm glad that you guys care about what Zenith thinks - surely a good quality an ally: care. Still, a good friend doesn't just listen to his or her friends blindly. Perhaps in this case Zenith is wrong. Why would someone want somebody whose sense of humor includes simulating Nazi rallies and photographing them? As good friends who surely have a lot of respect for you guys, I would think Duncan and Zenith would be happy to listen if you came to them and said, "are you sure about this guy? Really?"

The degree to which I care about your opinion of me is very small.

It's symbolic. It simply shows he's willing to move past his mistakes.

Is that even a sentence? If so, what is it supposed to mean? My Lord.

You can't be serious.

Only a select crowd (primarily populated by Vox members, I'd suspect), but point taken. Still, the real powers in CN would have your back, no matter what the trolls said. Proof is in the pudding: no one seems to have minded that Q held KM to ZI for quite a while now. Do you suspect someone might have started caring tomorrow, or the day after? Unlikely.

Why are you so attached to the name "Kaiser Martens" anyhow? Wouldn't you prefer a fresh start in which everyone didn't associate your character with hate, fascism, and bigotry?

They're asking for a reroll, that's all. Sure, KM has some wonders, but it's not like his nation is particularly large by any measure. What does it matter that he's protected by Zenith and cleared by TPF? Are they they end all, be all judge or right and wrong in CN now? If he were still on the ZI list of an alliance more "major" than GOD (say, for example... Valhalla, NPO, IRON, TPF, MCXA, etc.), there would be no question here. Everyone would stand aside and let him take his licks.

Letting someone like Martens go isn't exactly a party. It's not like GOD peed in your cereal. Why the hell do you care so much about Kaiser Martens' freedom?

Slayer, I'm impressed by your ability to let bygones be. Still, while you believe he has paid, some (notably GOD) disagree. Do you so firmly care for Martens that you would really mind seeing him taking a reroll to put aside his old in-character flaws?

Wow, owned hard. :lol: I think this thread can be called "over" at this point.

Get over what? Nazis? Unlikely.

The fact that any of you can support any sort of allusion to Nazism, in character or out, joking or not, it disgusting. Seriously - I don't even care if it's an OOC issue. There is hardly anything in modern history that can compare to the heinousness that is Nazism. I don't think I need to answer anymore to anyone who defends this pathetic clown. Some things are just not funny. Ever.

This is accurate.

He led an alliance chock full of Nazis and had himself photographed being heiled. I'm pretty sure lots of other Nazi-stomps, OOC stomps, etc. have been for much less. And yes, I know KM and NoR have already been stomped, I just don't think being a Nazi (I don't care what the haiku says) is very forgivable character flaw. If he re-rolls and keeps that crap out of his new character completely, that's fine.

I think it's pretty clear what I mean.

Uh... no?

When you create alliances like NoR, it's no longer just personal life.