Vol Navy
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Posts posted by Vol Navy
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How about bringing up some stuff from the TF! days, it makes about as much sense.
I've been in TPF for well over 600 days and I wasn't in TPF for the UJW.
You know pretty much the entire military leadership and basically all the Gov from UJW days are no longer in TPF or even playing CN, of those that are only one that I can think of may be in TPF Gov right now. That I remember, most of the Gov/Military leadership that are still playing from when I joined a few weeks after UJW ended are in Poison Clan right now.
Your post is an example of Bob's biggest problem imo. No one pays attention to what is in front of them, only to stuff that happened years before.
Last I checked TPF had lost over 70% of our pre-war strength in this conflict that was decided before the first shot was fired. I would say in a conservative estimate we've been hit by 1500+ nukes so far in this war and we are currently planning for the war lasting another 6 months or more.
But keep ignoring the current and go back to things that happened years ago when the alliance was entirely different than it is now.
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With the way the treaty web was filled with MD pre-war they probably attacked themselves if you traced it long enough.
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That would be their choice. NPO nations could also delete their nations or spend their entire warchest on infra. That would not be Karmas fault. The matter at hand is if NPO COULD pay the reparations. They can and many of their nations can do so while still fighting for those 14 days.
Then it isn't NPO's fault that alliances disbanded when they were defeated by NPO and company in various wars.
The fact that you just said RV is correct means that I will not be reading the rest of what you said. RV is doing this for attention, not for any higher cause. Everyone who knows him realizes it, and that's why we aren't seriously replying to him (see Delta's posts in this thread).I said he was correct in that it was possible to lose up to 12 million per day in GAs.
Regardless of why he was doing it, he was correct on that point.
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Mathmatically, you can lose up to 12 million per day in ground attacks alone, RV is absolutely correct in that. It happened to me several different times in the war. I was willing to sacrifice a million dollars to destroy infra, steal land and tech. I figured as long as I was doing more dollars worth of damage than my million was paying for it was worth it to me. Go aggressive with under 15% odds and you'll get that result 90% of the time. Steal and destroy but lose money.
You are all assuming that NPO won't want to fight back, that they'll just want to turn up their belly while you stomp their head so they can save you further damage and save themselves enough money to be able to pay you your reps for the honor of having you nuke them 13 times, air attack them 28 times, CM them 28 times, use your navy against them 42 times and ground attack them 28 times.
And that's if you are even telling the truth about keeping a list of nations as they move from peace mode and giving them only 14 days of war and not starting the clock once 90% are out of PM and giving them an additional 14 days beating once that number is reached.
I know if I get in this scenairo I'm spending every dollar possible to take out as big a piece of my attackers as I possibly can.
That means 3-4 million a day to rebuy Air Force, 5-10 million to rebuy navy, 1-2 million per day to rebuy nukes immediately.
If I have no infra and no money left at the end of 14 days and can't pay your reps, oh well. That's too bad.
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I am pretty sure we've never for a minute thought we'd get white peace at the end of this.
I do find it to be a sad world when you are called out for trying to be true to your word and follow through with your treaty til you've literally given everything.
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Okay. Cool story bro.
What a piss-poor argument. Firstly, the New Pacific Order will be under the protection of Karma forces whilst the surrender terms are in effect. It has been proven, on multiple occasions, that Pacifica would be capable of both paying reparations and beginning pervasive reconstruction during this time. Secondly, what has there been to stop outside parties attacking those alliances Pacifica has attacked and defeated in the past, after their surrender terms expired? (An amusing question, considering the two times that this has occurred, Pacifica itself has been responsible for it.) The surrender terms presented to the New Pacific Order did not prevent them from signing new treaties, nor did they propose to remove the alliance's ability to establish friendships that may lead to future treaties. They will have months of Karma protection in order to organise and plan their foreign affairs, as well as rebuild some of the damage inflicted in this war. Six months down the track, Pacifica will again be a 10 million strength alliance with hundreds of members, and a slew of alliances looking to fill the role of the Imperial Green Village (hi, Invicta!). To think they'll be relegated to the punching bag of the Cyberverse, as they transformed GATO and The Legion into in the past, is absolutely ridiculous.
What you and your ilk are so willing to forget is that Pacifica began this 'cycle' by imposing harsh reparations on alliances meeting their defensive obligations. If Pacifica had not initiated this war without justification or provocation, they would not be receiving the same terms that they have been presented in the last few days. The New Pacific Order is finally facing the justice they deserve for their bellicose actions.
Pacifica will be under protection until they pay the reps. That protection will end at that point I would assume.
I think you underestimate how quickly they will be able to rebuild. They have a lot of nations but it's a lot of small nations. They people who could get the rebuilding going will be giving aid. It is the plan of Karma to make sure Pacifica is down for at least 12 months.
I further think you overestimate how many friends they will be able to make after this war.
So what is to stop them from getting rolled again? There is much hate and a large number of people that want Pacifica to go away, cease to exist, be kaput. There will be little to stop them from banding together and rolling Pacifica all over again and the reaction will be "Lulz!! They did it to FAN now it's happening to them!!! Lulz!!!"
The only thing that may stop it is another war breaking out.
So it's hard to blame them for not exactly being trusting towards an angry mob who is shouting for their death.
For your last paragraph, Pacifica may have began the cycle (I really don't know if they were the first alliance to ever ask for terms/reps but I'm sure they'll be blamed for it anyway). But originally Karma claimed it was out to end the cycle of extremely harsh terms, I believe this was even stated by the Voice of Karma.
Certain alliances have tried this in this war and were villifed for it. I'm sure many feel they were suckered into war by those promises only to be ripped apart when they actually lived up to their word and what appeared to be the stated goal of Karma.
So as has been pointed out, the cycle will continue. The hate will flow. Bob will war. Nations will burn and terms will be draconian, even more so than these because the need to constantly one up. Alliances will disband because they don't have the will to continue. Their members will filter out and spread the hate and the same thing will happen over and over again.
Karma had one shot to try and change things as they claimed to want to do, but in the end revenge and grudge carrying ruled the day, all the light reps/white peace handed out earlier in the war will be forgotten. These terms will live on and set the standard for the future.
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Have you already forgotten that TORN pulled out because NPO tried to leave them out to dry? NPO stabbed them in the back. I see no reason for TORN to continue to fight for them.
About that......
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No one is out of nuke range in this war.
You have 5000ns nations getting blasted daily.
If these NPO nations decide to fight back, it's easy to spend several hundred million dollars in 2 weeks of war.
I know because I did it a few weeks ago. War doesn't get cheap until the 3rd or 4th week when you've lost absolutely everything.
And damned if I'd not fight back as long as I was capable. I wouldn't stand still and let someone kick my butt just so I'd be capable of paying them for the privilidge after the beating was over.
One other thing you have to factor in, so many alliances hate the NPO for past wrongs (even ones that helped NPO commit said wrongs). With them completely destroyed with no way to rebuild for 6-12 months, what is to stop all the people who loathe them and wish for them to disband from simply declaring war to finish the job as soon as they finish their reps to this segement of Karma?
With the attitude many have towards them you can hardly blame them for not trusting most anyone from Karma.
The one thing these terms are assuring is what EJay pointed out earlier, that this cycle will continue. At some point these alliances will be under the boot and will have these terms thrown in their face (although I expect at some point in the future the NPO will be blamed for giving out these terms rather than being the one that they were given to).
The only way to avoid the cycle continuing would be for NPO to not just disband, but for most of them to quit playing entirely.
This vengence minded mob has shown what happens when they filter into other alliances. They take their hatred and spread their propaganda and suddenly there are 15 alliances that hate you instead of the one that you defeated.
I do give credit to part of Karma, they truly tried to change things, but certain factions just want more of the same.
Unfortunately, more of the same means bad things for the current victors as they become the new targets of mass paranoia and hatred that seems to constantly envelope Bob.
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Good luck to TORN in the future.
Maybe we'll cross paths again someday and what was lost can be rebuilt.
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Sparta signed off on the GR peace terms, therefore Sparta is responsible for them. At least you didn't say NPO was directly responsible for them like others have in this thread.
Not surprising that they are since NPO is currently being blamed for terms that Sponge admitted were levied at least partially to spite NPO.
I will say it hardly surprises me that Sparta did little in the war vs GR, it appears to be the case in this war as well.
Also, after reading Delta's post, why did so much of Karma deny they were plotting anything at all in the early days of the war?
They acted like this literally sprang to life when OV was attacked with no forethought.
I posted then that I really didn't believe that Sparta/TOP/Gram/MHA etc would just spring into something that wasn't well laid out with a near assured victory.
From Delta's post plenty of now ex-Q members were actively plotting against their allies while they were in Q. I was told I was foolish for suggesting it when I posted something to that effect in one of the ex-Q DOW threads.
In part of his summary Delta mentioned TPF going into peace mode, we did, when it became clear from the level of anger and hate being directed at NPO during the weeks leading up to the war that something was going to happen. We'd been on war alert for a long time before that due to the tone that was becoming very evident on these forums.
That said, this is likely my last statement in this thread. Just hundreds of posts of basically the same thing.
I'm sure the next 20 pages will be much of the same.
"NPO is responsible for every bad thing that ever happened on Bob. Even when alliances fighting on the Karma side commited the acts, it was only because NPO forced them to."
"NPO is responsible for both the horrible terms that GOONs used to give people and the horrible terms Sponge gave the GOONs. "
"The NPO never were truly defending themselves, never looking out for the best interest of their members, they never had a vaild CB, they were simply oppressing everyone. LUE, NAAC, FAN, GATO, Gold, etc were all church ladies that made the The Democratic Order look like war mongering, political spinmasters. "
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Because Sponge was closely allied to NPO? NPO condoned the actions regardless of the disbandment of alliances that had been their allies less than a month before.
Examples of Sparta and RoK and terrible terms? Sparta took 1k tech from GR, and part of that was forgiven to us.
You do realize that on that list, NPO started almost all of those wars, right? There are more wars, just those are the examples of ones started by NPO or that NPO was involved in.
Just as much as most everyone else in the past deserved them
Edit for clarity.
Sparta was part of a group that gave GR awful terms. They called for the decomming of 5 wonders, later edited to 4 after realizing that you can't decom the MP.
Those terms alone potentially cost GR billions of dollars. If 1 nation had the wonders they lost the 250 million or so they invested in the wonders and the 250 million to buy them back. Plus the months and months of wonder purchase slots they filled. I'd rather give up 1000 tech than give up 2 wonders, let alone 5. That's how meaningless the 1000 tech part of the terms were compared to the wonder decomming.
As to the NpO point, because NPO was allied to NpO it's their fault he gave those terms and NPO should be punished because of them?
If that's the case almost all of Karma is going to have to take a beating, because I'll guarantee you if they haven't given out harsh terms themselves, they've at the very least been closely allied to someone who did. Many fighting against NPO right now that are asking for these reps fall into that category.
Also, NPO started the wars? Were at least some of them started with just cause? Or are they all unjust because NPO was involved and won them?
Two things come from what is left of Karma these days.
Fear and hate.
Fear and hate is driving the bus now. It's taken over foreign policy for many of the alliances that are still keeping the remains of Karma going in it's loose coalition.
So I say good luck in the future. The standard is now set that if you are even allied to someone at some point that you are just as responsible for their actions as a soverign alliance as you are for your own. That any past wrong is never forgiven. That many past wrongs you had little to do with will be laid at your doorstep and used as justification to destroy you.
That's not quite the lofty Karma goals initially laid out by Archon, but reality and idealism rarely meet up when dealing with human beings who tend by their very nature to be irrational about certain things.
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Once again I see terms edited into that list that were imposed by others and not Pacifica.
Was it not Sponge who claims he is the one who forced the disbandments after UJW? Yet now Sponge is one of Karma's greatest heroes and NPO gets blamed for his actions.
Just like people earlier have blamed NPO for the past actions of Sparta, RoK, and many other hegemonic alliances that dished out harsh reps/terms in the past.
You can't just take the results of every war ever waged and say NPO was at fault.
Well, you can, but it's nonsensical.
But anyway, gotta do something to kill the boogeyman. He might come back for us someday. And honestly, after this display, all of you involved in this set of terms will deserve anything you ever get in the future.
:::grammer edit:::
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Theres all sorts of posts about how NPO deserves such harsh terms to be in line with all the evil things we've done.
So heres a list of all those evil terms we've done in those evil wars we viciously started.
- First Arctic War - Unknown reparations paid or not paid to NPO
- Citrus War - $500,000 paid to NPO.
- ICSN Debacle - Unknown reparations paid or not paid to NPO
- Second Polar War - No reparations Paid to NPO
- Great War I - No reparations paid.
- Great War II - No repartions paid to NPO.
- Holy War of Farkistan - No reparations paid to NPO
- Great War III - $800,000,000 paid to NPO and pals.
- The Alaskan Folly - No reparations paid to NPO.
- Green Civil War - No reparations paid to NPO.
- NPO-ONOS War - No reparations paid to NPO.
- FAN-WUT War - No reparations paid to NPO.
- Great War IV - No reparations paid to NPO.
- Reeducation of Devildogs - No reparations paid to NPO.
- FAN-1V War - No reparations paid to NPO.
- Continuum-GPA War - 10,000 technology or $300,000,000 paid to NPO.
- Wolfpack War - 3,600 technology paid to NPO.
- GATO-1V War - No reparations paid to NPO.
- Golden Sabres War - No reparations paid to NPO.
- NPO-BDC War - No reparations paid to NPO.
- CIS-1V War - No reparations paid to NPO.
- Great War 5 -
- 500 tech
- 58,000 tech
- 2,000 tech
- 8,000 tech
- Total Great War 5 Reparations = 68,500 Technology.
- 500 tech
Total Reparations New Pacific Order Recieved: $800,500,000 and 82,100 Technology.
Karma Terms: $7,000,000,000,000 and 300,000 technology.
Karma demands roughly 8.75x more money than NPO got from her wars,
and
Roughly 3.65x the Technology NPO recieved from her wars.
Edit: Thanks PapaJacky from Legion
You miss the point. You are also responsible for terms/reps that every other alliance has handed out in the history of Planet Bob, including the terms that GOONs used to hand out for "lulz".
Your 1000 man alliance has also single handedly kept down the other 30,000 or so nations on Bob at a given time.
Because of your "3 year reign of terror" no one has been able to keep more than 100 infra and 25 tech at a given time in this game. No alliance has prospered, no nation has been capable of growing. Any alliance that posted on the forums was instantly ZI'd and then forced to give their first born to the Pacifican war machine, where those babies were turned into nuclear weapons.
This is pretty much what I've learned in this thread.
It's very refreshing.
- First Arctic War - Unknown reparations paid or not paid to NPO
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Ahh another 30 pages of hilarity.
In the past 30 pages since my last post this morning I've read the following gems.
NPO is to blame for terms the GOONS handed down.
NPO is to blame for terms VE handed down.
NPO is to blame for the horrible and extremely harsh wonder decom terms that Sparta and company gave Greenland Republic.
NPO is to blame for the terms Sponge and NpO gave to \m/.
Legion and GATO members aren't allowed to ask that their name not be used for propaganda against NPO because they aren't real members of those alliances. The real members quit on the alliances long ago and those that stuck with those alliances are no longer allowed to speak for them.
Really, I'm stunned that so many preach this and so many others eat it up. My gosh, will no alliance take responsibility for any terms they've ever given? Are all wars and all terms given in the history of Planet Bob NPO's fault?
And for the Spartan who made the crack a few pages back about us being in peace mode and that we needed to shut up. Face a true war, the war that we have and see where you are after 50+ days. You do know that Sparta shares a HUGE chunk of the responsibility for the failed staggars that allowed many of the current NPO nations who are in peace mode to get there.
Hugging that infra to cling to that #1 spot caused this and left others fighting with you on the Pacifica front and other fronts in the lurch of having to take on more wars and trying to get more staggars. Two of the big alliances fighting Pacifica lost sanction due to the beating they've taken. One gained ground as Pacifica's large nations went days and days without getting attacked and went into peace mode. Out of peace mode, and back into peace mode.
Fighting mostly the Mushroom Kingdom it took me 47 days and 41 nukes eaten to get to peace mode due to a missed staggar. They know how to carry war to their enemy. They are an alliance I will respect a great deal from here on out regardless of the outcome of this war.
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Funny thread for the most part.
Lots of hatred, bitterness and No U from both sides.
It boils down to one thing from Karma from what I can see.
Fear.
Fear that Pacifica will rise like Jason or Michael and come for them someday in the future.
So certain alliances want to put that off as long as possible because it's really impossible to avoid forever barring forcing NPO completely off Bob.
Many aren't really taking into account that rebuilding now is VASTLY different than it was after GWI. Hell, when I started playing a couple years ago 6000 infra and 2000 tech was a HUGE nation. Now that's nothing. It's going to take NPO a looong time to pay these reps and rebuild into anything resembling the power they were.
I've read some other incredible posts on here. People who literally said that if you weren't in the NPO you were on a death list. I don't remember what page that was on but it was in the last 20 or so pages.
Bravo Karma/Vox etc. Painting the picture that extreme and getting a large block to believe it was a masterstroke.
I've even saw people from certain "reformed" hegemony alliances posting about how evil NPO destroyed entire alliances singlehandedly. I guess they forgot they were rolling tanks in the same wars and helping Pacifica every step of the way.
It's amazing to me that a 1000 nation alliance kept 29,000 other nations under the bootheel for 2 years but many people, even Pacifica's allies in the weeks leading up to the war have members who take the bait and run with it. They now seem to believe that Pacifica was actually repressing them while they won wars, stole land and tech and piled up stats in the peace and stability of Q/NPO.
I guess in the end it's going to boil down to eternal war vs getting what you can while you can from Pacifica.
I would personally find it the height of hilarity if the next big one breaks out while this one is going on and some of these alliances suddenly found themselves fighting each other and on two fronts, trying to enfore eternal war on NPO while defending against the hordes invading from other alliances.
I do have a question to many of those that have nothing but absolute hatred of NPO.
Will anything less than NPO disbanding and actually having many, if not all of current NPO gov quit the game completely satisfy you? Would that actually make you able to move on past some hurt you felt from an action 1,2 even 3+ years ago?
I would honestly shake the hands of any alliances on the war front against us in TPF right now and let this epic beating go by the wayside no matter the reps/terms we're offered unless they involve disbandment/expelling members. Because if CN has one constant, we're all going to get a beating someday, this is ours.
Clearly many of you have a deep hatred for some past wrong, but many have a deep hatred even though they benifitted directly from being closely allied to NPO for a long time. I guess that goes back to the masterful propaganda war Karma waged for several months before this conflict started.
My final thought, this may very well be the only war in IC or OOC history where the losing party was given terms that reflected not only the ending of the conflict they were in, but every action they've ever taken in their entire existance and even some actions they weren't even wholly responsible for.
:::OOC::: It's like giving Japan terms at the end of WWII for things they did 1000, 800, 500, and 300 years before as well as things they did during WWII. /:::OOC:::
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Shall we leave the activations up to those alliances involved? kthxbai.
Article III: Mutual Defense
In the case of an attack upon one of the signatories it will be considered an attack on both. Should one of the signatories become involved in a defensive war the other alliance will set forth all means possible to help the defending signatory; including but not limited to, political support, financial aid and military intervention.
The alliances involved wrote that in their treaty.
So I can see two options here.
Option 1: RoK used the oA in their pacts with VE to declare an aggressive war towards NPO, thereby refuting all the claims that they are in a defensive war vs NPO.
Though technically that isn't even possible, due to their multiple mutual defense treaties with VE that automatically trigger, they were attacked by NPO as soon as NPO attacked OV.
Option 2: RoK was attacked by NPO due to treaty chaining with wording as above. Therefore by the wording agreed to from both parties in this announcement, FIRE should by all means possible be helping RoK with political support, financial aid, and military intervention as they have been attacked by NPO as well. The clause makes it clear that this isn't optional.
Technically this clause puts FIRE at war with NPO as of now. This kind of thing happens when you sign a MDoAP with an alliance who is currently under attack by another alliance.
This would mean that Rajistani's question was legitimate and those who called him "not to bright" etc are the ones who weren't exactly lighting up the night themselves.
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You are actually correct Rajistani.
From what I've read on here, most of the parties at war with NPO have claimed this is strictly a defensive war due to NPO's aggressive actions towards OV.
That of course caused the Mutual Defense portion of a series of treaties to chain, in this case an attack on OV was an attack on VE was an attack on RoK which as of now is an attack on FIRE. Through that chain, RoK is currently being attack by Pacifica. Therefore the mutual defense portion of this, which is not optional, should be activated and FIRE is technically at war with NPO.
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Before this war, we were ruled by NPO, and a tonne of alliances (IRON, GGA, TPF etc etc) which just mindlessly supported them which was boring as anything.
The sad thing is, you probably actually believe this. If nothing else Karma showed the power of propaganda on the masses. Certain propaganda masters actually convinced a large number of alliance members that they were being oppressed by NPO and certain cronies (the 1/2 of Q who ended up fighting basically). They made it seem that no one was allowed to prosper on Bob due to the NPO just keeping the jackboot on their throat at all times.
Some alliance members, many of whom actually prospered through NPO/Q actions became openly resentful of NPO. I guess because they became convinced by their own Gov and other propagandists that they just couldn't do anything on Bob with NPO making off with their babies in the middle of the night.
The Q members attacked in this war made up less than 10% of the total number of nations on CN at the start of the war. It's hard to believe that people could be convinced that under 10% were keeping over 90% down. But they were indeed convinced of it as these very forums are a written testament of it in action.
As I've said many times in many threads during the course of the war. Karma = Hegemony because Karma is in large part made up of former Hegemonic alliances that allowed NPO to have it's 2 year "reign of terror" on the Cyberverse.
This war was simply certain alliances who wanted what NPO had, the top of the mountain, meeting up with grudge carriers in other alliances who wanted vengence and their plan to get to the top/revenge.
The vengence seekers just had to grin and bear up to being coalition mates with certain alliances who'd recently gave them a nice bit of the jackboot themselves. As they knew it was their only way to be able to topple NPO.
Those who seek the power position to run their realpolitik on Bob counted heavily on all these people wanting that vengence to make this Karma war machine go.
I do not believe for 1 second that this was just a jumbled group of alliances, who thought they didn't have the strength to win this war convincingly when the first shot was fired. I saw this because certain alliances would not have taken the path they did into this war without assured victory. They'd have remained with the Hegemony.
tl/dr: for this section. Meet the new boss folks, just don't be surprised when it's the same as the old boss.
My last topic, to those who insist on falling back on this CoC garbage as it has popped up from a certain poster in this thread and different posters in other threads.
I'm 41 nukes taken and 45 or 46 days into the war fighting 1v4 or 1v3 almost the entire way and I'm still out on the front. The same goes for many of my alliance mates and our allies. I think it's about time to lay that CoC stuff to rest.
Not many alliances on Bob have entered a war via a defensive treaty and taken the beating we have in any war in CN history and still refused to leave the battlefield after this long when they could have left a long time before.
Frankly it's highly insulting to me that I've personally shed 80,000 NS along with basically everything else besides my nation name, while my alliance has shed millions and our allies millions more to honor our word and we still have people calling us cowards.
If our involvment in this conflict at this point doesn't show our intent and commitment to honor a long standing treaty, nothing ever will. All we face from continuing our part of this war is the prospect of even more damage and then reps we will get on top of that.
Mhawk can explain why he left TPF for a few minutes if he wants to rehash that story, but it wasn't because our cowardly members revolted and refused to fight so he stormed out and tried to fight on his own.
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A lot of the replies from Polar members and former Polar members in this thread remind me of the replies in the thread from other alliances' members when OoO was cancelled.
Circle of life on Bob.
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You probably should have joined an alliance.
New Sith Order is taking POW's.
Maybe you can redeem yourself there.
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I can easily see this going the way Bama says.
The next conflict is already heating up and what better time to attack than when a signifigant portion of your enemies are bogged down in a neverending war.
The next war kicks off and NPO's opponents find themselves facing each other on the battlefied, given the number of allinaces attacking NPO, that's very possible.
One side or the other would most likely work out a deal with NPO in the run up to the war to waive reps if they bring their nations out of peace to attack.
You can talk of having more resolve than NPO now. But will you still have more resolve when the next threat is crashing onto your shores? NPO has very little left to lose by doing it this way. It's enemies have much to lose by trying to defend themselves and keep eternal war on the NPO front at the same time. tC isn't around any more to suppress conflict like it was when FAN was kept in that state.
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Good luck with the POW's.
I'm pretty sure some of our jumpers were simply doinging it for the infra it saved them as they'd flew the TPF AA for a long time and the one time we actually hit trouble they bailed almost immediately.
I actually like NSO. You, MK, FoB, and NV are my favorite of our opponents during this war. Hell, even a few PC guys have been pretty good folks.
Onwards to 4 million. I have a feeling we'll be hearing about that and 300 members before too long.
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It was most likely the NPO.
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Best of luck, especially with the bolded part.
Very few are ever willing to forgive or forget the past here on Bob.
The Phoenix Federation Announcement
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
To the person in TORN who wants a clean slate due to your recent Gov change.
You have one with us.
This treaty didn't reflect a clean slate, it reflected a close relationship that from my point of view, your previous Gov chose not to keep during this war.
Hopefully your new Gov will be able to work with mhawk and our relationship improves to a level where a treaty is possible. I know that Rach has already been trying to mend some fences. She's good folk and hopefully she does good things for TORN.
Once again, Bob's biggest problem imo.
Even if no one associated with past decisions is still in power or even in the alliance, the past will never be forgiven or forgotten by many and that past will be raised in a negative fashion for years thereafter.
The silly thing about it is that the people who generated the negative feelings that many have towards a particular alliance are in other alliances. When they arrive in those alliances they suddenly get a clean slate. Yet people in the alliance they left are blamed for actions they had no part in at all, even years later.
The only path an alliance has to a clean slate now seems to be disbanding and reforming months or years later or switching sides at the last minute and helping to stomp your much hated former ally.
Taking a beating used to work, as it did with Polaris, but that seems to be gone now. Of course that is possibly because the alliances that took down Polaris aren't really on the "vengence" kick that the other parts of Karma are on. Those same alliances have been fairly willing to let the past go in this war as well. Though some from the vengence camp are saying they are remembering their Hegemoic past too well and giving light terms because of it.