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UBD vs. MK


watchman

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I've been looking into the UBD fiasco.

Here are the facts:

  • A member of UBD's government did indeed spy on MK. Mdnss stole MK's war guide and was busted via IP search.
  • UBD's Director General tried to cover up the spying after he found out about it. Slybomber made a boneheaded mistake here, no doubt.

Here are my thoughts on this:

Leaders' Actions Aren't Necessarily Reasons for a War. MK decided to punish the whole alliance for the wrongs incurred. I realize that is a legitimate CB and has happened before. However, I also know that is not always the case. Leaders are sometimes deposed and ZIed without a war on rank and file members. iClean/OVB was deposed and ZIed with no consequences to the rest of his alliance. King Penchuk was removed by genesis at the request of MCXA - no war, unfortunately. Finally, when NADC failed to follow post-war terms, it was actually the members' fault, but Charles was the only one that recieved the Zi, which is the exact opposite of this situation.

Give the Spies Medals Vox spies on lots of people and they're heroes. It is interesting how MK crushes UBD for doing the same thing that Sponge does everyday - stealing a war guide. I thought spying was the only noble way to resist the Hegemony?

I think my biggest point is that there was room to negotiate here based on precedent. I am surprised that more compromise was not demanded.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Mea Culpa. Archon has never supported Vox's spy efforts.

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Firstly, show me where Archon praises the spying effort of Vox, secondly: Sponge hasn't released any information from our boards to the public, and we havent managed to catch any vox spies. If we did they would be attacked, though attacking Vox itself probably wouldn't be a worthwhile endeavour for us.

As for whether or not war was an appropriate response; we think it is. The message is clear: don't try to gain access to our private boards against our wishes, and don't lie to us.

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Would attacking Vox serve a purpose? No, as they already spy.

Does teaching UBD a lesson over spying and its negative consequences have a purpose? Yes, it does, and it will have the impact of stopping them most likely.

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CN Forums: People posting about what they know nothing about. And I can't remember when Archon ever praised the actions of Vox?

This is true. I was wrong. I looked back at a post that I recalled being Archon. I was incorrect. It was a different MK member. I apologize. I was very much in error.

I'll update the OP.

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Give the Spies Medals Vox Spies on Lots of People and They're Heroes It is interesting how MK crushes UBD for doing the same thing that Sponge does everyday - stealing a war guide. I thought spying was the only noble way to resist the Hegemony?

Now it doesn't make any sense lol.

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Watchman, I would suggest you stop commenting on NADC, because you do not know anything about the past of that alliance.

Not ONLY Charles was ZI'd, a number of members not in compliance were also ZI'd and expelled from the alliance (by NpO, not NADC.) Now, I don't actually have a problem with that, as those members should have been expelled, and they should have been expelled by the NADC. Further, for the entire week after Charles' ZI was announced, the NADC was only one step away from NpO installing a viceroy, or being rolled again. It was ONLY because we were able to scramble and get a government in place that was somewhat different from the one under Charles, that we escaped.

Also, saying iClean deposition had no consequences to ACV is a little bit near-sighted.

I would ask you to only blog about issues of which you have knowledge, but then you would not have anything to blog about.

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I would ask you to only blog about issues of which you have knowledge, but then you would not have anything to blog about.

Hmmm.... cantankerous are we? I know why. It's because of this isn't it?

High five for the zinger, KMD.

Now, you are correct: Charles and some of the nations out of compliance were ZIed. I know. the point was the entire alliance was not rolled, only those who were culpable. It was a mess, but Polar did not just blitz the whole alliance. Also, your point about iClean only reinforces my claim. People that are culpable should pay the consequences.

MK had more options that what they chose, that's all I am saying.

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This blog is particularly funny. First of all, the actions of the leadership of an alliance are the only legitimate reason to go to war. By your logic, in order for an alliance war to be legitimate, every single member of an alliance would have to openly be found guilty of some sort of crime. Just the thought of that is hilarious. Also, you seemed to have confused a legimate alliance with Vox Populi. Don't worry, I'm sure people make that mistake all the time :psyduck:

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First of all, the actions of the leadership of an alliance are the only legitimate reason to go to war. By your logic, in order for an alliance war to be legitimate, every single member of an alliance would have to openly be found guilty of some sort of crime.

Well, not necessarily. For instance, in RL, it is not unheard of to demand a certain leader's replacement to avoid war. The thinking is, if an individual member does something that was not sanctioned by the alliance, the alliance is not necessarily culpable. It is a legitimate CB. I have mentioned that several times. It is not the only course of action, however.

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