caligula
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Posts posted by caligula
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[quote name='Gopherbashi' timestamp='1280707354' post='2397589']
Caligula, a bit of friendly advice - you may just want to let this thread take its course and accept the damage that comes with it, if your main defence is telling the rest of your treaty partners that your alliance may spontaneously decide not to honour that treaty the next time it's called upon.
[/quote]
I answered one of...tens of questions, if it's taken out of context so beit. -
edited:
No point, Haters gonna hate. -
[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1280707018' post='2397583']
You didn't honor your obligations to NPO or Q and you canceled a treaty that can't be canceled.
You violated two.
[/quote]
I've already answered the first and object to it in my previous posts.
In the second we protected the Gramlins after we had secured a peace we thought would suffice in the war and then were asked not to assist them in further efforts, we went above and beyond and protected them from other alliances who...despite what you think...were very willing to attack them.
And the post you quoted...
all accounted for. -
[quote name='Ryuzaki' timestamp='1280706785' post='2397576']
Oh the irony.
Treaties mean something, except if the members of MHA vote to cancel or ignore it.
[/quote]
Well yeah, that's kind of how we work.
We vote on treaties too.
In this instance the executive thought it was in the best interest of the alliance to make a statement now, and they did so.
I dare say the rest of it supports their opinion. -
[quote name='iamthey' timestamp='1280705750' post='2397533']
In hindsight MHA probably should have just waited for gre to disband, won't be that much longer.
Also MHA thank you for now violating two major treaties.
[/quote]
We have violated zero.
We have cancelled one, so points for you.
I'm really going to have a hard time sleeping at night because of this post though. -
[quote name='Edifice' timestamp='1280705939' post='2397543']
Yeah, since you already committed so much, might as well see it through toward them becoming a respectable alliance once again, no?
You guys help Gramlins beat down IRON/DAWN, and then turn around and say you can't hold a treaty with them anymore--again, after you've backed Gre's beatdown. Just seems a bit inconsistent to me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Gramlins will probably stagnate/die off in the future, so cheers to that.
[/quote]
I think the danger was in letting an alliance who showed little to no regard in our sake hold an MADP with our alliance, regardless of how big or small they were after this. There was no appreciation for the effort we put into staving off what occurred, and even helped try to procure peace for them.
In fact, I have found all of Gre to pretty reasonable with the exception of one person.
Unfortunately he leads the regime with an iron fist, and only until recently were people able to outweigh his voice.
As the OP again states, things have changed. Look at the list of signatures on there.
There are two members in MHA who signed that document, and none in Gre.
Throughout this time the H.A. spirit has been voiced and protected, throughout government changes.
Our relationship has changed as to what we feel for one another, and as much as I've defended the treaty for the past few months it makes sense to cancel the H.A. after this glaring example of its failing.
We did all that was asked of us and more in the meantime for them -
[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1280705796' post='2397536']
Yeah, that's the point of all the arguments here. Glad you could join us.
[/quote]
Well it's answered in the OP, so I don't know what your problem is. -
[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1280705611' post='2397527']
Ah ha! This is wear Gramlins went wrong. They thought discussing principles would resonate with MHA.
[/quote]
Pardon me, but wouldn't a MADP partner care more about its partners concerns, pleadings, position and well-being rather than "unconditional surrender," from a foe we've already defeated?
I think that's where the disconnect was. -
[quote name='Edifice' timestamp='1280705469' post='2397520']
Why would you cancel *after* you implicitly protect Gramlins while they pull their crazy stunt and make it drag on and on? Either cancel early and make Gramlins' job a lot harder, or stick with them through the war and help them rebuild afterward. This just seems like taking the worst of both worlds.
[/quote]
You have no idea what we've done for them in the meantime. -
[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1280705430' post='2397519']
They commit themselves to the letter of the treaty, so in a way, they do lose some sovereignty, specifically the sovereignty to not do what the treaty demands of them. Of course, nothing forces an alliance to follow these treaties, other than the court of public opinion. Theoretically, public opinion should consider such unscrupulous alliances as the scum of the Earth, but in practice people always side with their interests and desires. However, those of us with integrity (and we are very few nowadays), do recognize MHA for what it is.
[/quote]
You are wrong then.
We did not fail the treaty in any aspect other than the eternal part, which was misguided and written in a time when such treaties were thought to be worthwhile and ever lasting, and in the case of the NPO, and now Gre, we have been let down.
In this instance, as the OP states, we do not have the relationship of which this treaty was intended.
Forgive us for handling our own business and not hanging Gre out to dry like other alliances may have. -
[quote name='lebubu' timestamp='1280704991' post='2397509']
Regardless of how you feel about Ramirus, abandoning Grämlins now is a pretty !@#$ move.
[/quote]
Yeah, i know, we should've done it after that whole "We're going to force unconditional surrender on an alliance even though we know they won't accept it," thing. Or after we prevented several attacks on them during that several month long saga. Or after we were told by Gramlin leadership that they didn't care about their ally, only their "principles."
You're right. -
[quote name='Bilrow' timestamp='1280705021' post='2397511']
You sure [i]waived[/i] it for Gremlins.
[/quote]
We did the same, we threatened bandwagoners, iirc..
You went to war without telling us anything and expected us to commit suicide with no regard to us whatsoever.
Same result -
[quote name='Bilrow' timestamp='1280704808' post='2397500']
At least with Gremlins they protected them with the threat of a treaty still "on the books" and then cancel the treaty after the threat is over. With us, they just stood to the side and didn't do anything letting the treaty expire due to Surrender Terms.
[/quote]
Yes, I forgot, all alliances wave their soveirgnty after they sign a treaty, especially after the other party to it completely ignores you and decides to tyrannize other alliances. -
[quote name='Wentworth the Brave' timestamp='1280703589' post='2397458']
What's the point of holding on when they can no longer help you financially and diplomatically amirite?
[/quote]
Yeah, protecting them from a quicker death was really really classless.
I'm sure you would've loved it if we held a MADP treaty with an alliance that recently committed suicide with no regard to how much effort our own alliance was using to prevent their suicide completing sooner than it did.
Also, sup went -
[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1280703573' post='2397457']
Who's holding MHA's lease now?
[/quote]
Spelling, and no one.
Just like no one ever has.
You should take some notes, it's worked well for us. -
[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1280650372' post='2396910']
It wasnt as funny as Shattenmann trying to present them to the world as his own questions.
[/quote]
I had been so confused as to why this failed epicly and now I know.
I should have never doubted you,
Schat -
[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1280605245' post='2396255']
Congratulations on a hard won victory IRON and DAWN, enjoy your time of peace, it is well deserved. Very honourable move to let them off with white peace, can't say I would have been so charitable as to let the rats live and continue to spread their disease, but you are obviously more merciful than I. Now that Gre has been defeated, is this the time that I ask them to admit that their alliance is terrible and everything they have ever done in their entire history is a stain on the political landscape of Bob? It would seem quite fitting to me, though that may be too much of an inside joke.
[/quote]
No, because that would be very revisionist of you. -
Holy....Congratulations. Everyone.
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[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1280392942' post='2393732']
I am guessing here but most likely a vacation for the nation rulers?
[/quote]
This.
I don't think these numbers are exactly "fascinating," or notable :/
Please enlighten us? -
[quote name='Lennox' timestamp='1280365955' post='2393222']
Even if I did, I'd have contributed more than you have. Also, you can't void an eternal treaty.
[/quote]
Perhaps in your own mind.
I'd argue that many of us are quite fine with the way things are now, and are enjoying it.
If you're really that bored, why don't you start something yourselves...
and...
I see you have no idea what you are talking about, let me enlighten you.
As per the terms of Karma, all of the New Pacific Order's treaties were dissolved.
That's why they waited till the terms ended to sign with those they felt they still had a strong relationship with.
The Order at the End of the Universe treaty had a long cancellation period, but was not by any means an eternal treaty. -
[quote name='Lennox' timestamp='1280365644' post='2393211']
Yes, abandoning NPO with your eternal treaty definitely helped us get to where we are. Bravo. Your alliance is a cesspool of followers.
[/quote]
This is historically incorrect, the treaty was voided by the terms the New Pacific Order accepted at surrender, but thanks for your input.
Label everyone who doesn't agree with what we want to do followers!
Don't you have some Pacifican backstabbing to do? -
I see this list was created without any insight about how alliances who "don't do anything," have played a role in shaping the political landscape we see today.
Ignorance is bliss. -
Don't Panic!
/thread. -
We keep holding you off , despite your attempts to lull us into complacency with watching your aired episodes of HGTTG.
(WHICH ARE AWEOMSE!)
MHA Announcement
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1280708965' post='2397625']
No treaty is unbreakable regardless of the wording. Its the lead up to canceling a treaty that everyone will remember.
I will remember this as a pointless cancellation designed to win some PR for MHA, it will fail.
[/quote]
Yes this is clearly a pr stunt.