PotFace
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Posts posted by PotFace
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[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1295989111' post='2600860']
Uhhhh.. yeah. You sure showed me.
[/quote]
Well, I didn't expect us to reach this point so soon.... when others clearly demonstrate how hypocritical and out of whack your logic is, you go dense and unwilling to participate anymore. I have more respect for people that just come out and tuck their tails in and run away from the discussion. -
[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1295988915' post='2600852']
I don't see what DoomHouse and the mess that is the greater treaty web, and this war, have in common. Is it because DoomHouse is a bloc treaty whose members have ties to the rest of the treaty web? IF that is the case then every alliance that has declared war is guilty of what you are accusing us of.
[/quote]
IT LEARNS !!!
Edit: But you're wrong. Every alliance that has declared a war "for the heck of it", who has used the treaty web, is guilty of what I'm accusing you of. -
[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1295988633' post='2600840']
Still saying attacking NPO is consistent, just our timing is wrong.
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To me, that's just as screwed up as attacking the [i]wrong[/i] alliance at the right time. -
[quote name='Crowdog' timestamp='1295988189' post='2600828']
No. I said we may have a treaty, but the treaty is by no means our cause for war. We know this because we would be in this same position even if we didn't have the treaty.
Do we need to start bringing back Bob Sanders quotes, my goodness.
[/quote]
How convenient. Good luck convincing everyone of that. In the meantime, you guys have a reputation for being against the treaty web, but use it to wage war. That's something that's to be expected of MK... pretty standard. If you wanna be the class clown, be prepared to get called out for clownish activity. -
[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1295987554' post='2600804']
I guess this was also the case when seven alliances from a variety of different blocs simultaneously brought the boot down onto your alliance in the WotC, then, eh?
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Something like that would take coordination, wouldn't you say? Where ever there's coordination and cooperation, you've got yourself a team. Do try and keep up. -
[quote name='Crowdog' timestamp='1295986900' post='2600788']
How does us attacking in coordination with our friends mean that we used treaties to go to war? And where is FAN in this?
I know that DH has a treaty tying us together, but that treaty did nothing to spur this war. In fact, I believe that even if that treaty did not exist we would still be in this spot.
[/quote]
Did you really just say you're not here because of a treaty, and even if you were here because of a treaty, you'd still not be here because of a treaty?
Edit: Even though you really are here because of a treaty.... -
[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1295986592' post='2600782']
We didn't use it to engage in war. Others used it, to their own demise, and we engaged in war.
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So really what's heppened here, is that DH didn't declare war; the members of DH independently declared war against the same target at the same time. Gotcha. By the looks of things, I can understand why you'd be so confused as to what's going on here - you simply have no idea. -
[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1295986367' post='2600771']
As YOU now know
[/quote]
Terrible use of smug. How can you be against the tangled treaty web when you use it flawlessly to engage in war? -
[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1295986183' post='2600761']
What on earth...
I honestly haven't a clue as to what you are talking about.
[/quote]
Then you probably haven't been around in the cyberverse long enough to be engaged in any kind of a debate on political philosophy or legitimacy. Go ask your elders and get educated. See you back in class. -
[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1295986010' post='2600755']
Their allies weren't immune to this fear, either. If one chose to break away and pursue its own agenda, then it would put itself in Pacifica's way as well.
I remember a couple of weeks before the WotC, when NPO had canceled its treaty with NpO but was still protecting the latter, the rest of Q was making plans to attack Polaris. NPO's government, despite having no treaty with Polaris, and despite the fact that virtually all of us had been antagonized by the latter, came into the channel and began tacitly threatening us all.
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It's called, "alliance sovereignty". Treaties aren't the end-all of an alliance's actions. As you now know. -
[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1295985866' post='2600749']
Since when was eating a political matter?
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Oh, I thought you were on about the whole "eating babies" thing of the past. Which = war. Which is a political action. -
[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1295983976' post='2600702']
Poetic justice for all the children they've eaten.
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I thought you guys were against "morality" in politics.... -
Yep. And they say that they're the "saviors" of the game, because it was getting boring. Something tells me that if they come out of this victorious, those that they defeated will be making tech and cash payments. Because, you know, that's what this is [i]really[/i] about. Once their enemies are defeated, I guarantee you that they won't be fighting each other to spare themselves boredom....
I think the whole age of "might makes right" or "because we can" is going to go extinct in this cyberverse - they're not challenging political practice. They're challenging morality itself. That has never ended well. Neither has forcing your own beliefs upon others. The negativity that they have brought upon themselves as a consequence of this war will result in their demise - regardless of who the victors turn out to be. The only ones that might have any kind of a positive future left are those that will call off their attacks, "because they can", or for perhaps the radical purpose, "it's wrong".
This game needed a powerful villain. Pacifica, now you are [i]truly[/i] free. In an effort to destroy you, they've done nothing more than empower you and rid you of that role, and in turn, placed themselves into it. And we all know how [i]that[/i] chapter reads.
Congratulations, guys. You certainly have made the cyberverse more interesting. But you've sacrificed yourselves in the process. And with time, you're going to pay dearly for it - you have demonstrated political instability - you are a walking, talking liability, armed with nukes. Nobody likes that in the world of politics. You speak negatively about those that don't want to "play the game", as in, "going to war". What you have failed to realize is that the best part of the game has little to do with nation pixels, and everything to do with politics within a world community. If you find yourselves amongst a large group of responsible people, who enjoy actually "[i]playing[/i] the game" as opposed to just launching nukes for the hell of it, then you're going to be the outcasts.
There is nothing that you can do to change that. This is Planet Bob. Not Planet of the Apes. -
The What For War
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Damn good read, Schatt.
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[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1295935019' post='2599013']
An esteemed friend and Vox veteran has asked me not to jump all over this thread. Because of him, I will only say that I have long considered it \m/'s only fault that Marx is so far up GOONS's ass.
[/quote]
By the looks of things, I'd say the air is just right for a Vox rebirth, tbh. -
[quote name='angryraccoon' timestamp='1295931736' post='2598502']
Kill the monster .. Kill NPO ... Kill the monster .. Kill Doomhouse
everything. must. die.
people don't seem to get it .. time for a reset.
Put it all in no limit no hold em.
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I seriously doubt this is going to result in a "reset" once it's all over with. The victors will seize the power and abuse it as always. -
Some people just can't handle having power. I think the argument has been made comparing the pre-Karma War era to these nitwits. But, there's good news - when you can't so much as come up with a good reason for going to war, then war itself loses its appeal. Furthermore, as the Karma movement has demonstrated, when you go around bullying people, they eventually rise up and steamroll you. As far as the outcome of this war is concerned - it doesn't even matter, because there's no clear "cause" or "reason", other than "we felt like it", or "we were getting bored". The future of these alliances has now been sealed - they have earned themselves the same reputation that the pre-Karma era NPO has earned itself in the eyes of many. [i]They[/i] are now the hegemony, and have been considered to be as such for some time now. But even as a skeptic, there's no question left in my mind about it now.
If Pacifica (and possibly her allies) triumph, then these people will get what they were after. If not, it's going to foster the same kind of open hostility toward the aggressors here that was seen during the Karma movement against NPO. That's where short-sightedness will get you. So, sallyforth there, "Doomhouse".... ride to your demise. If it doesn't come sooner, it will come later. If it doesn't come by NPO's hands, it will certainly come by your own. -
Oh yeah man. They're gonna regret that. For sure.
o/ Pacifica!! -
To paraphrase the OP:
"We are still soggy from the Karma War, and we just can't get over it. Even though we won, and the end of the old days of NPO hegemony came to be, we're still emo about it, and so, we're going to act just like they did prior to Karma, with a little less honor and dignity." -
Here's a little something that Necro and I put together...
[img]http://www.blackstonecommission.com/combined3.png[/img] -
[quote name='Chief Stubbs' timestamp='1295909434' post='2597221']
In effect: The alliance a nation ruler chooses to roll with reflects upon the ruler, for better or for worse.
[/quote]
Yep. You got it. If you're going to support your alliance's decisions, then that reflects upon you as well. If you don't like what your alliance is doing, then leave. -
I respectfully decline.
Alliances are teams. A team is only as strong as its weakest link. Wars are not fought by individual members. When an alliance makes a political mistake, it suffers as a team. When an alliance prospers from victorious actions, it does so as a team. In a team, one person [i]can[/i] screw things up for the rest of the team. If a team leader has decided to lead a team into catastrophic failure, the rest of the team has the option to leave the team and join another team.
I do not sympathize with your point of view. I don't even come close to sympathizing with your point of view. Sorry. -
[quote name='Audran' timestamp='1295770045' post='2593582']
If you mean Polar and allies plus those that didn't like us to begin with, then yes, I would agree with you.
[/quote]
So what you're saying, is that people that [i]don't[/i] like you guys are able to look at a very obvious and successful collusion to start a war for no other reason that VE doesn't like Polaris, and those that [b]do[/b] like you guys happen to look at said blatantly obvious circumstance, yet don't see anything at all?
If that's what you're saying, then you've just insulted yourselves and your allies. We've passed the point of, "well, yes, [i][b]but[/b][/i]", and "there could have been something else to this". I mean, the evidence here is exceptionally damning. It is what it is. Put it to you this way: regardless of how valuable you feel it is, it's much better stuff than what VE brought to the table with its DoW. You guys got caught - plain and simple. The polls scream it - it's not even a [i]close[/i] call.
Everything. Must. Die.
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
[quote name='Crowdog' timestamp='1295989523' post='2600880']
If you're going to attack us for hypocrisy, at least do it over something valid. Our position has changed on a bunch of things since we were blacklisted by NPO. But it has changed with much of CN too. You can't say that people don't change, even CCC can agree that this is true. The difference with us compared to normal hypocrites is that in our changes we have improved. Greatly.
[/quote]
By "improved", what exactly are you referring to? The general consensus here is that imposing your "position" on things against others pretty much means that you have actually degenerated politically. Especially after seeing first-hand (with NPO) where that's going to take you. You've read that book and you already know how it ends. And despite that, you have elected to take NPO's pre-Karma role anyway.
That [i]can't[/i] be the "improvement" that you speak of. [i]Say[/i] it ain't so.