[Proof of Allegations]

[quote name='Augustus Autumn' timestamp='1329268605' post='2920728']
I'm not going to disagree with you regarding the content of what I said. Considering, however, the level of discourse throughout this sordid affair including some lovely song lyrics, all angles of character assassination and general mockery going on here I don't think you're seeing anything intellectually substantial from either end with a few exceptions.

Bob and some others have made good points throughout the thread - that MK has spied on other sovereign alliances has yet to be disputed in any real way. That an act viewed at one time as utterly unacceptable is now being either lauded or ignored in favor of personal attacks. That absolutely no consistent standard will be applied here. Will any of these points matter one iota? Not if they're buried below post after mindless post of questions regarding Roq's mental stability, self-image or outright insults.

My point? Sometimes solid points need to be rehighlighted in the interest of creating visibility for those actually willing to attempt to sift this mess for something worthwhile. My apologies if you feel it's bringing the discussion down further.
[/quote]
There is a clear difference between lauding a post and highlighting its strengths and whatnot, as that itself can add to the discussion. But putting words into the opposition's mouth (justified or not (I say not, but I don't care enough to argue it)) is one of the most annoying possible ways to do so.

[Proof of Allegations]

[quote name='Wilhelm the Demented' timestamp='1329268582' post='2920726']
I apologize.

I didn't realize MK and their allies were the only ones permitted to mindlessly post in support of their interests.

It won't happen again!
[/quote]
That's not a thing that I said. I cannot be present at all times to police the useless posts on both sides, but I do what I can. Also yours was among a few that particularly stood out to me, so you got lucky.

[Proof of Allegations]

[quote name='Wilhelm the Demented' timestamp='1329268026' post='2920715']
He's just appealing to the people to [i]actually address the issue[/i] instead of attempting to debase one another. (Oh look, you just did it!)

Truly, I don't think I could have expressed myself any better than he has. (Edit: That's why I quoted him!)
[/quote]
Bob's post was quality.

Yours was just one in a chorus of "Me too!"s that couldn't have done less to enrich this discussion.

[Proof of Allegations]

[quote name='Augustus Autumn' timestamp='1329266866' post='2920692']
Bob, your attempt to get back to the facts is an unwelcome obstacle toward the general shouting, yelling and mobbing going on here. Here on the Open World Forum there is no room for reason, logic or critical thinking. Away with you.
[/quote]
[quote name='Wilhelm the Demented' timestamp='1329266920' post='2920693']
Don't ask these people to think for themselves!
[/quote]
[quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1329267450' post='2920705']
You've done a terrible job assaulting Roqs character here. MK would like you to edit this post.
[/quote]
Honestly I would rather every sordid affair MK has ever been involved with be aired in public simply so we can be done with this issue in a timely manner rather than have to deal with more rank nuggets like these. You're worse than both the problem and the solution.

Edit: added a few more offending posts to the pile

[Proof of Allegations]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1329266497' post='2920683']
I stopped reading on page 15. Someone please tell me if there's anything worth seeing after that because I just can't do anymore.

A quick thing that pops out at me though. If the ultimate goal here is taking down MK (which you've said explicitly a few times), you're doing it all wrong. You don't just get up on a soapbox and throw information around like this. That leaves too much to chance and the fickle nature of the OWF. You gotta dig in the dirt behind the scenes. [b]You're looking and sounding like some noob who wants to take over the black team just screaming and hollering all over the place.[/b] The problem is, you've been here way too long and you've seen multiple alliances get taken down for different reasons. So there's no excuse other than incompetence for you to be acting like this. Basically, I'm not upset with you taking shots at MK. MK will be alright, though their souls may be shaken to the core. I'm upset because your execution is piss poor. If you're going to do something, do it right. This is just sad.
[/quote]
Referring to TOLWYN as a noob is, quite obviously, banned.

[Proof of Allegations]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1329254637' post='2920550']
Well the allegation is that everyone on DH govt forums knew about it... which would include sardonic and 1337 (among others). Also I believe that 1337 asked Bros to use his access to check RoK forums to prove something about rampage, which has yet to be proven.. I guess we will have to wait until friday.
[/quote]
The screens in the OP predate the creation of the DH gov forum by several months (it was created a bit after I left GOONS gov).

If he's calling out DH gov from January, that'd be me, and I never heard a peep. If he's calling out DH gov who've accessed the forum, he's talking about stuff unproven by this OP (apparently to be seen on Friday).

[Proof of Allegations]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1329253224' post='2920539']
Were any of the leadership of GOONS privy to the information gleaned from such intelligence gathering procedures?
[/quote]
Up until my departure in May, I didn't hear a peep of this. Edit: I was former GOONS Co-Pilot, for reference.

[Proof of Allegations]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1329252778' post='2920536']
Roq blows the whistle on MK and allies' spy ring because of personal vendetta. They dominate the forum with character attacks.
[/quote]
There has been no indication (plus a statement by 1337) that anyone other than bros, lebubu, and Roq were privy to the contents of the screenshots.

[quote]
No discussion of the implications of utilizing said spy ring has come up yet, but probably will once Roq collapses from exhaustion and exits the theater.
[/quote]
Roq has been absent from the thread for the past couple hours, but sadly, the current train does not appear to be losing steam.

[Proof of Allegations]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1329249279' post='2920507']
I'm confused. When exactly did telling the truth become a priority for you and yours?

Certainly this is a new revelation over the last 24 hours.

I don't know why you think labeling Roq as being complicit absolves the pretty blatant indication that this was an aggregious offence (that there appears to be a much larger one no doubt,) done by your ilk.
Granted, he was allied to them but that's not the case anymore. Unless you're going to tell me treating him like !@#$ was out of love...get out.
[/quote]
Telling the truth has [i]always[/i] beein a priority for me. That's all I can speak to. And my mention of complicity was in reference to the "truthfulness" of his words, it has nothing to do with absolving anything. So my previous question stands.

[Proof of Allegations]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329248200' post='2920493']
I'm not insane and I don't want to hear anymore about it or I start playing cards. Not like NG isn't vulnerable.
[/quote]
This sabre rattling seems to be contradictory to your recently posted Roqist Manifesto. Or does making vague threats of releasing incriminating evidence (that you were likely complicit in) to silence your opposition still count as being "truthful?"

[Proof of Allegations]

Well I guess at the very least I have the take back the "vapourware" comment. You certainly did deliver. Something. Clearly this is way above my paygrade so I'm going to hold my tongue for the most part. I will say, however, that regardless of the validity of your claims, the way that you have gone about this has left a bad taste in my mouth. And for you (or anyone) to claim that you were [i]provoked[/i] into posting these in this manner is either dishonesty or delusion.

[Worst Leader Ever 2012]

[quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1328658738' post='2916395']
Also I'm sure people have a different opinion on what a GOOD leader is.

I could say, well leader x of micro y is a good leader, he works hard and blah blah blah, but maybe someone else says, well leader x is one of the worst leaders because of poor alliance growth or war ability or whatever.
[/quote]
I think that's one of the most entertaining parts of these events. The polls are all accompanied by a thread to debate your choice, and you have the ability to change your vote. Votes are constantly being changed by points brought up in the thread, or even events that occur during the voting.

[Will the Real Ragnarok Please stand up?]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1328640816' post='2916228']
I'm confident that it will get back to them.

I have taken the advice of several disgusted members of this community and as it turns out, it bore fruit.
[/quote]
Confident isn't sure. If you have some sort of legal recourse in mind, making a request of that sort of the MK board's admin in a 50+ page OWF thread is [i]very very silly[/i].

[Will the Real Ragnarok Please stand up?]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1328640465' post='2916224']
Also: consider this my formal request to remove that thread, all images of myself and Kait, as well as anything else that pertains to the slanderous (and false) comments from your newfound idol. I am required to do this, apparently.
[/quote]
Well then I sure hope someone who actually can deal with this formal request wanders by this thread and reads this post? Honestly, I don't have much input on the current part of the debate (that's well handled), but this is just silly.

Edit: And that doesn't even touch on the content of your request itself, which is quite nearly equally silly.

[The CN Grand Give]

[quote name='Marneus Calgar' timestamp='1328576300' post='2915729']
Saying I don't trust you is not mudslinging. It's a personal opinion. From what MK has shown in the past, present and will show in the future, you're very untrustworthy. Hence I donated an amount directly to the charity, not through a middleman.
[/quote]
That wasn't a barb - I was likely to be the one slinging mud if I were to make a serious reply.

I will, however, commend you on donating to the charity regardless. A good act always deserves thanks.

[The CN Grand Give]

[quote name='Marneus Calgar' timestamp='1328575749' post='2915722']
Even if you had done it internally you would've made it public that you were doing it. Sure, it's a good thing that it was public as it added some extra funds, but I've also donated to the same cause, but I decided not to do it through MK because honestly I don't trust you. Especially after the stat posting just to show you're "superior" in some way.
[/quote]
Wow. I'll leave this because really, mudslinging in a charity thread isn't my style.

[The CN Grand Give]

I would also like to point out that if MK had simply done an internal donation drive to avoid the whole "It's for PR!" shenanigans, the donation total thus far would have been cut in half. Publicity has its uses aside from personal gain.

[The CN Grand Give]

[quote name='Marneus Calgar' timestamp='1328574785' post='2915702']
These stats are unnecessary.

This is obviously just another MK E-Peen contest. Would've been much less obvious without the stats.
[/quote]
Right, because MK is well known for having more money than everyone?

[Worst Leader Ever 2012]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1328562862' post='2915560']
For the record, anyone campaigning for themselves on the boards will be banned for it, similar to the ruling of last year's WPE contest rules. Cheerleading yourself is just annoying and bad posting.
[/quote]
However attempting to sway the contest by running their alliance into the ground between now and when the voting starts is highly encouraged.

[Will the Real Ragnarok Please stand up?]

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1328570977' post='2915648']
So the situation ends with the government which couped Bob & Joe because they stopped recognizing KK as a member and allowed MK to raid her has now decided to stop recognizing KK as a member and are now raiding her with MK. All in less than a week. Rofl.
[/quote]
And all is right in the universe.

[A United Equestria Announcement]

This is like if GOONS was actually a bad alliance.

[Will the Real Ragnarok Please stand up?]

I'm shocked. There are people in Ragnarok on [i]both[/i] sides of the issue?

[An Announcement from Europa]

who ever let you into FA, Chax? they should be fired

[Will the Real Ragnarok Please stand up?]

[quote name='Rampage3' timestamp='1328127178' post='2912687']
In the end Bob, it is not about what I want. The "what Rampage wants" ship sailed a bit back. I would have preferred that the members of my alliance find a way to deal with one another more reasonably and privately than they did. I would have preferred that my selection as successor not participate in OOC attacks on my predecessor. I would have preferred not to try to log-in Friday AM to the forums only to not get anything. I would have preferred not to [ooc]rock a sick child in the middle of the night while trying to figure out what the hell happened in the less than a week since I stepped down[ooc].

This is where we are. Rok is her warriors. They support Adel. I support Rok. And given Ragnarok's situation, I cannot simply walk away from my AA at this time. Some can, and I wish them well. But not me.
[/quote]
It sure is fascinating when someone can hold a very different opinion from mine yet present it in a coherent and respectful enough manner that I am given no reason to disagree with it.

Kudos.

[The CN Grand Give]

Looks like there is a very generous and very secretive contributor. The total went up by about $800, but the amount isn't associated with any names in the list.