Cynic2
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Posts posted by Cynic2
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It's good to see our allies at IAA finally at peace. Godspeed with your rebuilding guys I hope that you build back better than ever.
o/ IAA -
This MDoAP is certainly a surprise.
o/ all involved anyway. -
Well now I see lots of familiar faces and I think that you guys have potential. Good luck.
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I wouldn't go so far as to say that SF as a bloc are terrible. In fact the majority of their signatories tend to be reasonable alliances. RIA, RNR, and RoK don't really have a history of being unreasonable either in victory or defeat. Even with the hiccup that CSN had in the whole DT situation one cannot point at them and say that they have a [i]history[/i] of being unreasonable, quite the opposite their history is of actions that are reasonable and honorable.
I haven't had any kind of dealings with GOD so I can't really give an opinion on them but as a whole I don't think SF is a terrible bloc. A couple of their members may be involved in unpopular situations but this doesn't mean collectively they are terrible. -
In regards to all of the chest puffing that has gone on in here, in particular between LoSS and CSN I would like to point out a few things both to CSN and to my alliance mates: First and foremost arguing over who did the most damage is pointless since the war is over and CSN agreed to white peace with LoSS. LoSS also agreed to white peace with CSN, and if we were clearly winning as is being claimed by LoSS members in this thread then surely we could have gotten CSN to agree to white peace with DT instead of the terms that were agreed upon.
CSN took a lot of damage the statistics don't lie, but those statistics can be misleading. CSN did not only lose NS as a direct result of losing technology or infrastructure to LoSS. They were also fighting DT plus as has been pointed out already using nukes = you lose NS. Statistically the only area where LoSS actually was not outgunned by CSN was in their middle and lower tiers, we have historically been a bottom heavy alliance so it really should come as no surprise to anybody that LoSS got roughed up a lot in our upper tier. If CSN had not dominated us in the upper ranks I would have thought them incompetent for failing to achieve results in the area where they had a distinctive advantage, likewise I would have questioned the competency of we at LoSS had we not fought very well in the middle and lower tiers where we had the numbers to do so.
Did CSN take a lot of damage in this war? Of course they did but you know what, so did DT and so did LoSS, for that matter every alliance that was a part of this front took at least some damage. There were no clear cut, dominating victors here and anyone who claims that there were is being disingenuous.
Others in this thread who fought on this battlefield would do well to follow the CSN MoFA's example and congratulate everyone on a hard fought, prolonged war and a fun time had by all.
I am proud of how well LoSS fought in the circumstances under which we found ourselves. I don't think that anyone that we engaged on the battlefield are going to deny that we were true warriors who didn't back down. We should acknowledge that the same is true for those who engaged us and at the very least not disrespect their efforts. Our part in this war has come to a close, let us move on to the rebuilding phase instead of beating our chests and arguing back and forth over whether we outfought anybody or not as attempting to shame our enemies accomplishes nothing. -
As one of those who participated in one of the IRC activities referenced in these terms I personally would like to apologize to any who found my behavior offensive. I may have been trying to kid around and have fun but yeah it was disrespectful of me and that type of activity shall not be repeated by me.
Everone in this front of the war fought hard and all of the combatant alliances can be proud of how they fought. I look forward to seeing you all again maybe even as allies but until then it's time to rebuild.
o/ everybody for a great fun time! -
[quote name='XRCatD' timestamp='1298848514' post='2646393']
IMO this whole thing is not because of CSN having greed... it's fear tactics. If they can successfully extort a lot of reps in this war, then in future wars people on the opposite side to CSN will be more likely to opt not to declare CSN or its allies...due to potential fear of potential reps just like these.
So successful reps benefit CSN + its allies quite a lot...
[/quote]
In addition to this:
[quote name='Willaim Kreiger' timestamp='1298848861' post='2646398']
Or, alternatively, alliance X declares on CSN and "burns them into the ground". They then justify massive reparations based on CSN's support of massive reps in the recent past and CSN and their allies suffer. Regardless good luck out there DT.
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I'm going to also say that extorting a lot of reps has the side effect of alienating their own allies who will see CSN causing the war to drag on as foolish. Even if they successfully extort 40k tech in reps if it costs them and their allies several million NS is it really beneficial to them? How exactly does being destroyed in a war of attrition cause future opponents fear? All that this is proving so far is that CSN government is vindictive enough to continue the mutual destruction instead of offering terms that are reasonable and likely to be accepted. -
I suppose that I may as well do some shout outs now before I forget anybody:
Commander Virius of Hydra - I fought this guy in my first round of wars and while he wasn't one for chatting he's a brutally competent fighter and gave me a great fight to start the war.
Lancel0t Albi0n of Hydra - You kept me on my toes and gave me a good fight, it's a pity that Commander Virius was whooping my tail at the time otherwise I would have been able to give you more of a fight.
Machanidas of CSN - You are one of the toughest and classiest opponents that I have had this war. It was an honor to fight you on the battlefield and I shall not forget you.
Thomas214 of CSN - Another CSN'er that gave me all that I could handle, he was fun to talk to while we were fighting and kept up the pressure even after I was bill locked for a short time.
Catamount of Legacy - By far one of the more respectful and active opponents that I have had the pleasure of facing. This guy fought tooth and nail and it took me and all of the others attacking him 5 days of 5 on 1 attacks to finally take him down. This guy deserves the utmost respect for his war capability.
SoldierGiorgio of Legacy - It was a pleasant surprise to finally see somebody counter me after a couple of rounds of just filling my offensive slots. You were a consistent fighter and it was fun.
Master Ice of CSN - Even though you were pounded mercilessly by me you still would not accept my offer of surrender. You were broke, outmatched and had no way of defending but you still gave it your best and you deserve props for your tenacity and hanging in there.
Kesselring of CSN - Another opponent who never gave up even though he was in a tough spot fighting me. You kept a positive attitude and we had good conversation.
Hetman Vladislav of Legacy - A tough, active opponent with a spy network that I just can't touch. If all of your slots weren't full you'd be a beast to have to fight against. By far another one of the toughest opponents that I have fought this war.
Rune Walsh of CSN - You've been an active opponent and I haven't seen a day go by yet without battle reports from you. Not bad considering you are getting nuked back into the stone age by others.
I have fought many others but those who I have listed are the ones that stand out the most and deserve credit for keeping this war fun and lively. -
There's so much spin in this thread that it could power a couple of third world countries with the sheer amount of centrifugal force...
I have not read through the almost 80 pages of arguments in this thread so please bear with me if any of the points that I am going to make have been made or countered earlier in this topic.
Here is how I see things:
DT entered this war because they have an Optional Defense Pact with LoSS and we approached them asking them to hit Legacy since we were having difficulty with them. CSN may disagree with an optional treaty being activated but the treaty is still a valid one, more valid than the non-existing treaty that they used to declare on LoSS I would dare to say. CSN can guess as to DT's motives for entering the war all that they wish it still does not change the fact that DT honored an optional treaty as means to enter the war, an optional [u]defense[/u] treaty.
Next we have CSN saying that DT were disrespectful and rude during negotiations and that this justifies punitive reparations. Imho insulting people or being disrespectful are not justification for imposing damage reparations, mainly because these actions do not cause actual damages, only hurt feelings. After that CSN declared that they seek reparations because DT sought to abandon LoSS on the battlefield and that this shows opportunism. First of all if LoSS felt disrespected and wronged by the Dark Templars actions and the way that they sought to exit the war would that not be for LoSS to take up with DT? Why should CSN handle that situation on our behalf? It's great to know that you guys have our best interests at heart and that the respect and honor of our allies is so important to you but I think that LoSS can handle issues with our allies ourselves.
How DT seeks to exit the war does not change the fact that they entered it by honoring a legitimate treaty. If CSN truly believes that honoring optional treaties is grounds for punitive reparations then I look forward to seeing how much of a reps amount they will be demanding from Legacy and The Brain for honoring the OA clauses in their treaties.
This brings me to another point, DT entered via an optional [u]defense[/u] pact. This by its very definition means that they were helping to [b][u]DEFEND[/u][/b] LoSS. Their entry into this war was not made via aggression and as such subjecting them to war reparations is ridiculous. Since when is defending an ally a punishable act? Should alliances who choose to defend their allies be praised for it instead of punished? What kind of backwards world do we live in?
I would also like to point out that this sets a dangerous precedent should reps be assessed. Every non-neutral alliance needs to think about this: if people start getting reparations for alliances honoring optional defensive pacts then what is next? Will some alliance or alliances in future wars push the envelope even further by demanding reparations from alliances who enter a war via a mutual defense pact? Where does it end? There are many of you who were around in the days of the World Unity Treaty bloc, I myself was one of them. Do you not remember losing wars in which you fought? Do you not remember being victorious in Karma? The point is that just because you are winning now does not mean that you will always win wars and if CSN is allowed to extort punitive reps from a combatant who entered the war in defense of an ally then when you find yourselves on the losing end of a war in the future you may find yourselves subject to the same kind of punishment if you defend your allies.
If CSN wanted to teach a lesson to others to prevent them from attacking their allies then they have done just that by declaring war against DT after they attacked Legacy. DT may have sought peace without LoSS when they began negotiating but let me ask you this: Since the reason for LoSS entering the war (TIO) was no longer in it would LoSS have been kept in a state of war if DT had been given peace? Considering that from what you keep saying (I'm not LoSS government and have no idea if this is accurate or not) LoSS still to this second has a standing offer of white peace I don't believe that we would have.
DT's only crime was being uncouth during negotiations, is CSN government really so petty and vindictive that they would assure that CSN continues taking damage from both LoSS and DT just to try to make a point because they feel that they were slighted at the negotiating table?
I have warred with many, many CSN nations this war and those that have responded to my messages and had conversations with me all seem like decent people and classy individuals, if CSN's government would offer responsible terms (Demanding an apology from DT for the arrogance and disrespect that you allege would be acceptable IMO but I believe that paying reps for defending an ally that has requested your assistance is logical nor the right thing to do) we could all be rebuilding right now instead of still bombing each other to dust. To imply that DT was wrong for defending LoSS is also an implication that LoSS's reason for being at war with CSN and her allies was wrong and I don't see the facts bearing that out.
It benefits CSN not to continue to be in a state of war with both DT and LoSS (LoSS is not going anywhere as long as DT is still at war). -
I didn't actually get to fight any Brain nations but from what I hear you guys stayed classy throughout this whole affair. Good luck rebuilding now that you are out of the war and good luck.
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Now that's a nice looking banner. Congrats on your formation and best of luck to you guys.
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[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1297440657' post='2629395']
Some figure out that they are happiest carrying a spear and chatting with their friends every day.[/quote]
I can attest to the truth of this...
I find that I have much more fun with this game when not burdened with a leadership role.
To answer Morphine's question though as others have pointed out /b/ members spammed the forums with child porn and gross images and stole the source code for the game. It was a very rough time to be sure. -
It's good to see alliances commit to a war and not leave until the ally that they join is off the field.
Go get 'em TOOL. -
Let me go ahead and give my opinions about some of the arguments that I'm seeing in this thread regarding the Dark Templar and offer counter points:
One of the main justifications for DT being "punished" by war reparations is that their attack was "opportunistic" and that NOIR is only an economic treaty. My response to this is that even if you remove NOIR from the equation completely how exactly is DT's declaration against Legacy any less opportunistic than CSN declaring war against LoSS while we were fighting Hydra and bringing in two allies as well? At least DT has a known treaty (NOIR) that they came in on, they didn't jump into this fight because they are a member of the Anti-LoSS Rainbow Unicorn Coalition or whatever the hell coalition that CSN mysteriously joined to justify attacking us.
LoSS government have verified in this thread that we went to Dark Templar and asked for their assistance against a tough opponent while we were taking a beating. DT joined this war not for opportunistic reasons but because LoSS asked them for their help, I highly doubt that DT had any illusions that they were going to come into and exit this war unscathed they did what true friends do and jumped into this knowing full well that they were going to get roughed up a bit with us.
Somebody please explain to me how declaring war against someone's ally is a worse act than declaring on their alliance, I mean seriously am I the only one who has difficulty understanding why CSN should be entitled to reparations when Legacy (you know the guys that DT actually declared on and attacked) have stated that they have no desire to levy punitive terms against DT?
As for the person who posted in this thread several pages ago asking why LoSS thinks that we should decide what terms our allies should recieve sure from your side of the battlefield it may seem that this is what LoSS is doing but let me say why I think that we are not willing to accept any sort of peace until DT gets a peace that they agree with: It si simply because of the fact that DT would not be fighting this war right now had LoSS not asked for their help. We are the reason that DT is in the position that they are in and facing punitive surrender terms and as long as DT don't feel that they are getting reasonable surrender options we're not just going to say "thanks for coming to our defense DT, good luck paying those reps". If LoSS did something like that it would make us horrible friends and allies and quite frankly I won't leave our friends holding the bag when they came to fight to help us.
And before any of you say "do something about it" let me just say that all of my offensive war slots are full so I am very much "doing something about it". The sad thing is that in this situation Legacy was attacked by DT in defense of LoSS and yet it is CSN that is trying to capitalise by profiteering instead of offering a peace that DT can live with. Whether DT accepts punitive reparations or not is their choice and I'll support their decision either way but personally I don't see what DT did wrong to warrant them having to pay reps. Since when has helping a friend when they are in need and ask become worthy of punishment?
Shouldn't it be viewed as honorable and the right thing to do when one honors a treaty, optional or not and actually stands by their friends in war? LoSS is not accused of spying, we're not lauded as tyrants or any of the reasons that this conflict came to be. DT is helping an ally who entered this war because of treaty obligations and our desire to help out our friends, they didn't jump on somebody just for the sake of it and they didn't do it because they support the suspected wrongdoings that lead to this war kicking off.
Sure CSN can demand whatever they want but anyone with any sense of integrity should be able to look at this situation as a whole and honestly be able to say that DT does not deserve harsh punitive reps.
As long as DT is facing that kind of blatant extortion I for one have no problem with my nation continuing to get blown up for as long as they are on the battlefield.
When you have alliances that literally can't stand each other agreeing that these terms are unnecessarily harsh then you should probably consider just how wise this course of action is CSN. -
[quote name='thedestro' timestamp='1297301774' post='2627508']
I don't understand the point of this thread. This isn't a bug report, the spy does what its intended to do. Go to the Suggestion Box
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My sentiments exactly. Suggesting that changes be made to this spy operation fits more in the suggestion box than the bug report forum. -
My opinions of them won't change at all quite frankly but then again I am indifferent to them as they are now. Regarding the New Pacific Order I find it ironic that many of the alliances that decried all of the "atrocities" that the orders and their allies committed are now committing almost all of those same "atrocities" now. We've got VE & company using the same excuse to go to war that NPO used to use (questionable spying accusations) and Doomhouse jumping NPO for no other reason than they are apparently still scared of the Pacifican boogeyman and think that NPO is going to roll everybody and reclaim absolute power or whatever justification it is that they are using.
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It's disappointing seeing a couple of LoSS members posting earlier in this thread whining about this declaration especially considering that RNR didn't exactly come for us with guns blazing. When CSN declared on us I got hit by a couple of their finest and they along with the Hydra nations that I was fighting busted up all my furniture and dropped me down to the level that I am at now, yet you don't see me in this thread complaining about RNR joining this front of the war.
I am not a fan of war reparations anyway, my personal opinion is that war should not be profiteering and when alliances blast the hell out of each other then when hostilities are over they should get down to the business of rebuilding and preparing for future conflicts. I'm not government in LoSS and I don't know the status of any negotiations that are being made in regards to the war but I will say that DT joined this war to help us out so that we could regroup from the beating that we were taking on multiple fronts and we shouldn't leave them holding the bag and being "punished" for doing what they thought was right when they saw their friends getting roughed up.
Yes TIO got peace and are no longer fighting but IAA (our bloc-mates) and DT (who stepped up and helped us knowing what they were marching into) still are and personally it would not sit well in my stomach if we left the battlefield while our allies were still shedding blood for the cause.
I've had some great opponents this war and they have all whether winning or losing presented themselves with dignity and honor. It's a shame that some who post on the OWF seem to leave both their dignity and honor at the door and would rather argue for arguments sake.
Tl;Dr Welcome to this front of the war R&R let's have fun and enjoy a good fight. -
[quote name='Catamount' timestamp='1297060400' post='2623659']
so this means more targets for me?
woo! its fun fighting you guys! legacy is having a blast 
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I have not had the honor of facing any Legacy members during the course of this war and it just so happens that I have 3 open defensive war slots and am in your range, so what do you say shall we dance? -
[quote name='Facade' timestamp='1297053573' post='2623246']
Since when is white peace surrendering?
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TIO is bound by the no-reentry clause for this conflict and the NPO-Doomhouse war. That term makes it a surrender as white peace is the cessation of hostilities without any terms. -
[quote name='TimeMaster' timestamp='1297051029' post='2623114']
Yeah, LoSS is still fighting the Commonwealth of SuperBandwagoning Nations and their cronies.
[/quote]
Yes to prevent any confusion it should be noted that LoSS and Hydra agreed to white peace as the OP states. LoSS has not surrendered to anyone and are still very much a part of this war. -
[quote name='Bernkastel' timestamp='1297050754' post='2623110']
Since our role in the war is over, shout out to [b]iFOK[/b]'s [i]frozenrpg[/i] from my first round of war, [b]Hydra's[/b] [i]Lord Hershey[/i] from my second round and [b][i]Lancelot Albion[/i][/b] from the first round of wars as well. The three most formidable people I had to fight all war long. Kept me on my toes 24/7 and made this the most fun I've had in [b]years[/b]. Good fight.
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Yeah Lancelot Albion gave me a hell of a good fight in the first round as well. -
To the Hydra nations that I fought personally you guys have nothing to be ashamed of, you gave it your all in the circumstances that you were dealt. I respect the fact that you fought hard and wish you well in your rebuilding efforts.
0/ Peace on this front!
0/ Synergy
0/ Hydra -
One of the things that I enjoy about wars is the interaction back and forth between me and the players that I am fighting against. Sure the politics is great and all but interacting with other players that I would otherwise not meet in game or on the forums here is probably a little more fun for me.
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[quote name='Machanidas' timestamp='1295744317' post='2592656']
Indeed, I'm having good fun, too. Almost a million and half's worth!
To: Cynic From: Machanidas Date: 1/21/2011 11:51:35 PM
Subject: Battle Report
Message: You have been attacked by Machanidas. You lost 7,889 soldiers and 1,902 tanks. You killed 9,506 soldiers and 1,031 tanks. Their forces razed 27.583 miles of your land, stole 5.680 technology, and destroyed 22.719 infrastructure. Their forces looted $627,139.08 from you and you gained $0.00 in your enemy's abandoned equipment. In the end the battle was a Defeat.
To: Cynic From: Machanidas Date: 1/21/2011 11:52:25 PM
Subject: Battle Report
Message: You have been attacked by Machanidas. You lost 4,001 soldiers and 0 tanks. You killed 1,143 soldiers and 446 tanks. Their forces razed 26.369 miles of your land, stole 5.688 technology, and destroyed 22.753 infrastructure. Their forces looted $137,970.60 from you and you gained $0.00 in your enemy's abandoned equipment. In the end the battle was a Defeat.
To: Cynic From: Machanidas Date: 1/22/2011 12:01:33 AM
Subject: Battle Report
Message: You have been attacked by Machanidas. You lost 861 soldiers and 0 tanks. You killed 1,028 soldiers and 121 tanks. Their forces razed 24.047 miles of your land, stole 5.694 technology, and destroyed 22.776 infrastructure. Their forces looted $373,389.83 from you and you gained $0.00 in your enemy's abandoned equipment. In the end the battle was a Defeat.
To: Cynic From: Machanidas Date: 1/22/2011 12:01:16 AM
Subject: Battle Report
Message: You have been attacked by Machanidas. You lost 209 soldiers and 0 tanks. You killed 140 soldiers and 224 tanks. Their forces razed 25.181 miles of your land, stole 5.691 technology, and destroyed 22.765 infrastructure. Their forces looted $312,273.45 from you and you gained $0.00 in your enemy's abandoned equipment. In the end the battle was a Defeat.
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Heh, I didn't say that all of the battles were victories just that when I've won ground battles I've come out of it pretty good. You in particular are putting up a tough fight. After eating that nuke I'm actually holding my own against the Hydra nations that I am fighting and having a tough go of it against you and Thomas214.
Announcement From Anathema
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
I'm going to go ahead and say that whether you decided to go through with creating your spy ring or not that even thinking of creating a spy ring when spying is the most commonly used CB used to start wars was idiotic.