Sileath

1. The person doing the insulting is a member of government. 2. I brought this to the attention of Sith Lord Doppelganger via private query that I was being lied about in that thread, and received no reply. 3. I will not cheapen my economic thread (or any other thread) by replying to unintelligent posts. Therefore, my best recourse was to take it public as a matter of record that this feuding was being laid to rest.

1. Yes it was. The people were well informed. 2. I said in the OP that I don't oppose blocs, but prior to Ivan changing his position on NSO's involvement in blocs he should have said something to the people. 4. I edited that part out of the quote to give you a chance to remove that from your post. That was posted in the government forum, and it was one of several ideas from the citizenry that I brought to the attention of the rest of government for discussion. 7. If you don't like it, post about what's wrong with it. Intellectual debate is its own reward. The whole insulting as part of an agenda though is low class and it gets old. Check that thread and see if I haven't responded to every person who posted an intelligent reply talking about issues with the plan. Don't fear ideas, and don't fear the people. Have them on your side.

As I said in the OP, the reason for creating this thread was due to my being insulted in the Sileathonomics thread. That thread did not mention NSO at all, but a NSO member had the urge to insult me in it and to specifically bring up (and lie about) aspects of my service in NSO. That's not going to fly. It's the same as me not going into NSO/STA/Frostbite thread and starting trouble, I expect NSO to not come into threads that don't concern them and needlessly start trouble. Disagreement is not the same as agenda-based insulting, I am aware of the difference, and so are all involved parties. So, you have something to say about my service in NSO - out with it, and out with it in this thread, not in any other thread that does not relate to NSO.

1. The challenge system (which is one of the best features of NSO) is hindered if the people don't know what policies and actions are taking place to be challenged. IA always recruits, because IA has a great leader of recruitment. What about the progress of the Academy? I had to specifically call out IA in a Debate Forum thread just to get them to condescend to explain what they've been doing with their time. 2. What's wrong with the citizenry speculating? Sounds like you're talking down to people, like they can't "handle" the information that something might be happening to which they will be honor bound. It could have been posted prior to it becoming official, with a statement saying not to talk about it with people outside of the alliance. Treat people like adults, and they act like adults. 3. Yes, for that incident I was elevated to & in the private NSO channel. The incident with Random a month ago had nothing to do with this. I will PM you the relevant log concerning youwish.

Same with Tyga, I've edited your post to add numbers. 1. The weekly IA reports revealed in excruciating detail what IA was doing. Since then, I've had no idea what IA had been doing, and I've never known what Peace/Trade has done, even when I was government. 2. For Ivan to say over and over that NSO was about a certain thing (no treaty blocs) then to spring a treaty bloc on us on the OWF was puzzling. He could have make any single post or thread on the NSO forums saying that due to changing circumstances, NSO would be open to treaty blocs. As soon as Frostbite was confirmed, it would have been nice if the people would have been informed.. I mean is it that opsec that you can't give the people the courtesy of letting them know who their new sworn allies are? 3. As my superior in WarCon was youwish959, he would be considered government, and he's one of the ones who had the biggest problem with my actions in the GGA thread. I have the log available for those who already have access to the private NSO channel - government spams in the channel that another alliance leader should be insulted, I kick them for spamming, and then get banned. Who's silencing whom here? 4. I've already dropped the Random issue.

2. Plenty of people in government must have known about the upcoming bloc. Any of them could have talked about it, but did not. 5. I'm going to drop the Baseballer issue as he is still a member of NSO and I don't want you guys insulting your comrade in this thread.

I edited your post to include numbers so I could respond to the numbers - a statement without a number means it's resolved 1. It was largely the tone.. it wasn't in good faith, because RandomInterrupt seemed to take great delight in his prediction that baseballer would fail. If he said something like "You've messed up in other alliances so I hope you do well in NSO," something that a friend would say, then it wouldn't be an issue. 2. A single thread on the NSO forums would have sufficed - something saying that a treaty bloc was coming, and/or that NSO was going to get closer with NpO, STA, and tLC, especially something saying that Ivan was reversing his position on treaty blocs. 3. Bring it on, I can take it. It's not as much about repairing relations as about at the end coming to an armistice - and we not coming into each other's/our allies' threads needlessly like with the SoA and Sileathonomics threads. 4. You're a good man, Tygaland o/

2. For him to change his mind so drastically in my opinion should have been preceded by an explanation on the NSO forums, talking about why his mind had been changed. 5. You know what, there are a lot of NSO members with shady pasts, does that mean anyone from any alliance should be allowed to insult them and NSO for accepting them, then later that day become a NSO treaty partner? 6. You did a very nice job on the signatures. I'm just saying that the priorities of the citizenry are askew - instead of caring about communication from their government, they care more that their government's actions are accompanied by nice graphics.

Yes, bringing this into one of STA's thread was a one-time error. The problem is that if RandomInterrupt had a problem with NSO's admission policy he should have said something while he was a Sith Lord. When I was head of IA, I personally attempted to make some changes to the admission policy, and it brought a lot of debate - none from RandomInterrupt. I felt it was not his place as someone outside of the alliance to so blatantly criticize our admission policy and our membership.

Based on Vengashii's blog entry about the reps, and my own conversations with NPO Milcom, there's pretty much no way NPO will be accepting those terms. "To ZI and beyond" appears to be the battle cry.

1. I appreciate that. o/ 2. I did not personally perceive a friendship existing between NSO and tLC. I completely understand the relations between NSO, STA, and NpO, but given RandomInterrupt's blatant expression of glee over his predicted failure of baseballer, more context for the "friendship" between NSO and tLC needed to be provided. 3. I have never said anything about the people voting, etc. I just support the people being informed about major decisions. 4. This thread doesn't exist so NSO and myself can fight and argue in perpetuity, just so those with something to say can say it, then it's been said. Don't expect me to drag this out beyond this thread and go into NSO or Frostbite threads to say things. All this mess ends in this thread. 5. Thank you o/ Za Sibir!

There appears to be some unresolved issues between myself and New Sith Order. This thread exists so myself and NSO can each express their sides and after the airing of grievances is complete, we can all move on. In this thread I am not representing Athens in the slightest, just as myself as a former member of NSO. NpO, this doesn't concern you. STA, I apologize for this post being in your State of the Alliance thread, that wasn't the place for it. I have nothing but o/ for you. Assuming you accept my apology for that post, this also doesn't concern you. Here are some of the issues I have with NSO. If you're going to reply and address these issues specifically, please use numbers so everything looks and stays all organized. 1. Lack of communication from the government. This has been by far my #1 issue since I was head of Internal Affairs, and I had worked hard to make sure that government operations were being divulged to the citizenry in a timely matter. Following my departure from that role, communication from the government to the people was drastically reduced. 2. Ivan Moldavi said several times that NSO would not be signing treaty blocs. Terra-Cotta Pact was a treaty bloc, though it was a color sphere thing and the citizenry could see the negotiations taking place in the Brown alliance embassies. 3. Frostbite - a treaty bloc. This bloc was not at all talked about to the general NSO public. Having a treaty with STA and NpO are completely understandable and justified - no person in NSO would oppose them due to the history of those alliances and the NSO. Still, due to how many times that Ivan said that NSO would not be signing into treaty blocs its curious that such a dramatic change in paradigm of a leader would occur without the knowledge of the citizenry. 3a. This does not mean I oppose treaty blocs, just that if a leader says something over and over and it's a big issue with them, and then they completely reverse themselves, the people should know about it at least a few minutes before it hits the OWF. 4. Holy good gravy, people brought all their biases with them in NSO. The GGA-Athens-NPO thread was a mess. (I'm not including TPF because noone doubted mhawk's account of the events). We're talking about people screaming and swearing at me in the NSO channel because I'm refusing to automatically take an anti-GGA stance. In the history of NSO, GGA has never done anything against NSO. In fact, GGA assisted NSO by taking LadyDakota off of their ZI list so they could join. And I'm getting flamed to hell because of the position I'm taking in this thread searching for the truth (posting screenshots, putting together the evidence, instead of saying "OMG GGA FAILS CAUSE THEY'RE GGA") and it's like the biggest betrayal to them. 5. What's with the treaty with The Liquor Cabinet? You know their Theodore Roosevelt (what's the equivalent of that rank?) RandomInterrupt, like two days after he leaves NSO, publicly insults NSO for accepting baseballer as a member and says he'll laugh when baseballer fails. 6. The whole concept of government making decisions without telling the citizenry - I'm not even saying the people should have a choice, just for them to know - and then distracting them with shiny objects (the Frostbite sig) so they can go on a mass hail fest seems a little... yeah, a little NPO. 7. My Sileathonomics thread on these forums did not concern NSO to the degree to which I was insulted within it. That is the biggest motivation for this thread. I suck, etc - let's hear it NSO, get it all out in the open because you know I like to keep things public. Once it's all been said and gotten out in the open, we can move on, you guys as a great alliance, and me in Athens keeping it real with the convenienct free speech clause in the constitution. In case it's not very clear - this is not the place for statements about Athens. Air your grievances about me all you want, but Athens has done nothing to deserve your disrespect.

Ignore this post, I'll be apologizing for it in another thread.

Nice to see Otto advance. Just doing a little survey.. did STA inform its citizenry prior to signing the Frostbite treaty?

Upper class (situation based - needs WRC) without a DRA would do one 3/50 (one slot), aid two nations and receive 100 tech from tech bankers That's 125 tech per cycle. Times four, that's 600 tech per cycle, so 3.5 months to get the tech for WRC. Since a nation becomes upper class after their third econ wonder.. SM -> SSS -> NRL -> MP -> GT -> SDI -> IS -> WRC I threw in SDI because it's a good wonder to have. Regardless, they have plenty of time to get the tech.

This is why tech bankers exist. It's more important for a nation with 5k tech to get up to 6k tech than it is for a nation with 500 tech to get up to 1500 tech.

CN is not a peaceful world. If I wanted people to get the WRC as quickly as possible, I would have them forgo obtaining a MP first, but militarily that is not realistic.

Purchasing tech at your level stunts your growth. You only need 870 tech (assume 900) for WRC, which can be accomplished through 18 3/50 deals, which would take 9 cycles (2 months) if you did two per cycle. This assumes that noone will tech bank for you. You still need the Pentagon to be eligible for WRC, and that's not including having 8,500 infrastructure, for which you might want to have Interstate System. You will also likely want to get Manhattan Project first as well. Your best option, due to the technology you already have, is to sled as much as possible, take temporary economic trades when you collect, and kick down 3 mil for a social mobility aid program when possible so the nations who go through it will be most likely to want to tech bank for you when they ascend to bourgeoisie. Use the profits from the sled to purchase additional wonders and infrastructure.

Upper class (situational based - needs WRC) with a DRA would do two 3/50s (four slots) aid one nation and receive 50 tech from a tech banker 150 tech in, $9 million out -> 600 tech in, $36 million out Upper class (situation based - needs WRC) without a DRA would do one 3/50 (one slot), aid two nations and receive 100 tech from tech bankers 100 tech in, $9 million out x 2, 150 tech in, $6 million out x 2 -> 500 tech in, $30 million out Upper class (merit based - already has WRC) with a DRA would do one 3/50 (two slots) aid two nations and receive 100 tech from tech bankers 150 tech in, $9 million out -> 600 tech in, $36 million out Upper class (merit based - already has WRC) without a DRA would do one 3/50 (two slots) aid two nations and receive 50 tech from a tech banker 100 tech in, $9 million out -> 400 tech in, $36 million out

For Bourgeoisie nations (I am one of those) the profit from a 3/100 tech deal would roughly be the cost of one day of bills with 5 Labor Camps. That is not optimal use of alliance resources.

You should not be getting a DRA before a WRC anyway, which is why the situational based aiding is set up like that.

And I'm posting it publicly! Aren't I awesome?

Upper class (situational based - needs WRC) with a DRA would do two 3/50s (four slots) aid one nation and receive 50 tech from a tech banker Upper class (situation based - needs WRC) without a DRA would do one 3/50 (one slot), aid two nations and receive 100 tech from tech bankers Upper class (merit based - already has WRC) with a DRA would do one 3/50 (two slots) aid two nations and receive 100 tech from tech bankers Upper class (merit based - already has WRC) without a DRA would do one 3/50 (two slots) aid two nations and receive 50 tech from a tech banker

Bourgeoisie would expect to receive 3 million per 200 technology. They would not send money to anyone.

Sileathonomics has free market elements, but relies on regulators to ensure that social mobility is only available for those who have been reliable merchants.