Biazt
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Posts posted by Biazt
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[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1286034161' post='2472216']
See, I was with you until this point. Because, quite frankly, this point is simply not true. I cannot think of ANY alliance that would pursue a raider who fights back, beyond the week of war that the initial raid started. If you know of any alliances who give raiders who fight back no recourse.. share them with me please, because, as Athens is, and is connected to, most of the vehement raiding alliances on this planet, I dont think I would have missed such an alliance.
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We don't pursue raid targets that fight back. If they continue to stay on NONE our members can raid them again if they choose, but that isn't anything personal. For example, I recently raided this nation: http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=374495 who responded to my GAs with bombing runs, cruise missles etc. I responded accordingly but held back on nuking him throughout the duration of the war. He's still in NONE yet not involved in any wars right now. If your assertion that we pursue raid targets that fight back was true he'd still be at war. -
[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285995567' post='2471963']
Which is why many of your raid victims end up just quitting if they don't feel like signing up on your board and doing things for your amusement after getting attacked by you guys. The whole mercy board concept is a sadistic one that you guys do use to grief players and make yourselves feel superior for beating down on unaligned nations and micro alliances.
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On the contrary, lots of players enjoy fulfilling the mercy board terms. It's only players that take themselves far too seriously (you) that get upset about it. -
[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285995113' post='2471952']
No recourse would be better than wasting someones time with the mercy board, I don't think many new players would be motivated to continue playing after having to deal with all the BS you put nations through there.
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Trick question, the other option is no recourse by default. -
[quote]You want me to compile a list of GOONS posts for you? Open just about any thread longer than 3 pages and there will be great steaming piles of GOON posts for your enjoyment.[/quote]
I don't think so.
As for the griefing claim: we're not [i]making[/i] anyone do our lighthearted mercy board terms. Considering some other tech raiding alliances wouldn't even give them terms I'd say we're being generous. Unless you'd prefer we gave them no recourse? -
[quote name='bzelger' timestamp='1285993792' post='2471929']
This is a bad post and you should feel bad.
You're fooling yourself if you honestly think you're doing anyone but yourselves a service. Tech raiding is not an interesting way to divide the world. Griefing new players and mounding the forums with !@#$posting isn't doing anyone any favors. You're trying to substitute being jerks for being political antagonists but all you've succeeded at is being jerks.
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Please post examples of us !@#$posting all over the forums. Tech raiding is not griefing. You seem to have a misunderstanding of griefing and/or tech raiding. -
The parable of the angel and the devil.
There's an angel and a devil that are constantly at each other's throats. The devil does everything it can to bring the angel down. The angel preaches to the devil to mend his ways. The devil sneers and snarls and throws things.
Then, one day, the angel sees the devil in the gutter. The angel picks him up, dusts him off, and pulls him to his feet. A passerby asks "Why are you helping him? What has he ever done to deserve it?"
The angel turns do him and says "Don't you see? Without him, there is no me."
Everyone in this game likes to hate on the raiding alliances. We're the bad guys, we're driving people from the game, supposedly, we're cowards, hypocrites, thugs, hooligans. No sin is too great to be put on our shoulders. No action we do can be pure of motive. We can be lied to, tricked, and destroyed, and it's justified because We're The Bad Guys.
And that's fine. No raiding alliance adopted its policy thinking "This is the easiest way to get love in the cyberverse". If you raid, you do so under the assumption and the implicit acceptance that you have adopted the persona of Bad Guy. In wrestling terms, you're the heel. All you need is a moustache to twirl, a girl to tie to the train tracks, and you're Snidely Whiplash. There are few deeds good enough to wash away the stain of being a tech raider.
Likewise, if you decide you want to be Dudley Do-Right, if your ambition in this world is to be the biggest and most heroic babyface imaginable, can you guess what step one is? That's right, choose the most generic alliance name possible and change your userpic to your favourite anime character! Wait, I got that wrong. What I meant to say was "Loudly condemn tech raiding!" Few approaches are guaranteed to polish your halo more than talking about boy howdy how much you hate those goshdarn tech raiders. And, much like there are few deeds good enough to wash away the stain of being a tech raider, there are few sins dark enough that the Clorox of Anti-Raiding won't shift them. It is not uncommon to see alliances that have extorted others, declared massive wars for spurious reasons, installed dictatorial leaders on conquered foes, and deliberately attempted to drive their enemies off the world entirely, line up at the moralist lectern to proclaim how utterly terrible tech raiding is and what a negative effect it has. And not getting called on it.
Before you think this is a complaint, it's not. It's the job of the bad guys to be bad, not matter what else they are, and the job of the good guys to be good, no matter what else they are.
Here, however, is the thing you don't want to think about:
You need us.
Tech raiding makes good bad guys for a number of reasons. First, it's really easy to condemn, a simple moral stance that takes very little explanation. Second, and this is the nice one, as evils go it's fairly harmless, and there are few consequences to condemning it. The alliances these days that are tech raiding are a terrible and disgusting menace... to microalliances. They're a horrible and unstoppable evil... unless you have 16 members. They will show no mercy... unless you do a picture of a cat in MSPaint for them. No alliance ever got stomped for talking smack about techraiders. Tech raiders didn't ever go to war with anyone for voting for the wrong senate candidate. Tech raiders do something easily condemned and mostly harmless. Thus the main moral debate in the game isn't between the moralists and an actual hegemonistic evil, it's between the moralists and Dick Dastardly. The people in the white hats aren't chinese students in front of a tank, they're Fred and Daphne revealing that the ghost was actually the janitor of the only funfair all the time. We keep the argument light. We keep the consequences of being on the wrong side of the argument light. We're still Lex Luthor and you're still Superman, but we're the Lex Luthor who steals 40 cakes.
That's as many as four tens.
And that's terrible.
And here's where we get back to the angel and the devil. If there weren't tech raiders in the game, if we all just vanished as I know some of you want us to, what would you all fight about? You know you'd fight about something, because deep down you know that fighting is what this game is about. You'd find something to fight about, and whhen you did, you'd find that a lot of the people in the white hats had learned to be cruel. They would have the tremendous viciousness of those who know they are Doing The Right Thing. I don't think you'd find it a very pleasant world.
So, what I'm saying is this: You need us.
Because without us, there would be no you.
-Lamuella -
It's been like this in CN from day one. I thought everyone knew this already? This isn't surprising in the least.
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Like others have said it's the length of time it takes for new nations to build up anywhere near close enough to be relevant.
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[quote name='Egwaterboy61' timestamp='1285967087' post='2471445']
Personally, I think it's about the *time* in which they get raided. If you joined a new game...that took forever to build anything worth playing with...and you lost all of it within the first week or month, would you stick around?
The problem lies within the mechanics of CN. It takes so long to build your nation, that when you loose it at a drop of a hat you get frustrated and quit.
Speaking for me, if I got raided on day one, I would have quit. If I got raided on day 1,000 I wouldn't have. When your new you need time to grow and learn about the game. It's like when you catch a baby fish...you gotta throw it back.
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You also need to ignore the 500 recruitment messages that are sent to you offering protection. -
[quote name='jeff barr' timestamp='1285910912' post='2470794']
....[i]what?[/i]
2007: "Wtf guys, why are you doing that?"
"lol who cares, bawwwwww. Do something about it"
*something is done*
"Queue half a dozen of the strongest alliances on Bob rolling those who did something about it"
2010: "Wtf guys, why are you doing that?"
"lol who cares, bawwwwww. Do something about it"
*something is done*
"Queue half a dozen of the strongest alliances on Bob rolling those who did something about it"
Welp, you're right. No antagonising or comparisons here whatsoever.
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You can apply this faulty logic to almost every alliance that has ever been curbstomped. Keep reaching. -
[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1285905480' post='2470689']
Fewer nations => fewer raid targets => what gets called a legitimate alliance has the bar moved up => more curbstomps => increasing nation loss => surviving nations fleeing to the protection of large alliances and massive treaty webs => permanent stagnation => game over.
That's basically it.
We're currently moving through the 'more curbstomps' phase and seeing increasing nation loss, even discounting the latest attempts by small alliances and individuals to attack GOONS. There is still time for a correction, but it grows less with each passing day.
And to anticipate a question, no I don't have an answer and neither does Admin. The answer has to come from the collective "us".
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So your entire argument is a huge slippery slope fallacy? Face it; raiding has been going on for YEARS, even in 2006 raiding was actively taking place and the bar for a legitimate alliance has never moved past 15 members barring a few isolated incidents.
Good post Crex -
[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1285868473' post='2469922']
...but then who would come along and take Schattenmann's arguments and make them semi-coherent?
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Oh lord my brain
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[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1285867813' post='2469907']
I posted in the wrong forum you want reps or something?
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That or you could disband
What a ridiculous thread -
Why does FnKa hate GOONS again? 99% of goons never even heard of you guys until last night.
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[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1285830221' post='2469505']
Nobody actually says lulz anymore. Hope this helps.
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This right here. Saying lulz on the GOONS forums is usually not tolerated and will get you ridiculed on IRC. -
[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1285828632' post='2469488']
I think the thing that irks me the most about this declaration is that FnKa is more or less stating that they never run into situations during their raiding that were unforeseen or out of their control. Even when we were alliance mates you guys were just as big advocates of tech raiding as GOONS because of the activity it can spike, and it was many of the more level-headed people you are attacking now that advised against it because of the trouble it can cause. You don't realize it but you're guilty of almost all the same crimes as GOONS. One of our gov members nuked a guy during a raid gone bad? Well, one of your current gov members nuked his way through an entire alliance for absolutely no reason at all. I didn't see you mention that?
As for the ex-TR members you mentioned in the OP; nice. Being a member of a solid alliance in the past is not a CB, and the continued acts of unwarranted aggression by FnKa against these members is nothing to cheer on. At least, that's the conversation we had earlier tonight. The game is boring. We're attacking you. I didn't see anyone mentioning the great movement in their DoW's (can we still be friends, long time no see). It stinks of a vendetta and nothing more.
Did anyone from FnKa EVER talk to anyone from GOONS prior to this about their policies? I don't think anyone in GOONS knew who you were until about four hours ago.
So don't try to blow this into some kind of 'movement'. This is you being bored and holding grudges and seeing an opportunity to jump on a wounded animal you've held a grudge on for a year while people cheer on the lawlessness. Say what you will but encouraging this behavior will backfire on the community far worse than raiding nations that can't be bothered to join an establishment. It's nothing short than imposing your will on another alliance with the threat of nuclear war and a return to what I fought for during the last two wars to erase.
-ski
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Hypocrisy you say? On Planet Bob? Well I never... -
More meat for the meat grinder.
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[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1285796708' post='2468752']
I don't necessarily have problem with GOONS (beyond the Red Raiding Safari) but I do have a problem with what you are doing around this 12-man alliance; you could easily have taken them on your own without any outside help. Like NSO did, you should have asked your allies to stay out of it.
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Coming from you especially this is hilarious -
[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1285785245' post='2468513']
What hypocrisy? The hypocrisy you invented in your head? I wouldn't really complain if you attacked RV, and while I don't speak for RV, I don't know that he would either.
Attacking all of NSO is a different story, which sets up a straw man for you to knock over, so lets keep it on RV for the sake of this discussion. You wouldn't hear a single complaint from me (Though I doubt I qualify as a 'moralist').
Another issue is big guy vs. small guy. Here The Ninjas are the small guy, and they basically get automatic praise, regardless of the circumstances, for having the testicular fortitude to go through with something like this. It's only made better when GOONS comes on to cry about it:
"Do something about it
"
"OK."
"*whine* *cry* *baww* What gives you the right ;_;"
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Thanks for agreeing with me. -
[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1285778052' post='2468404']
Well, it's not quite a valid CB, but if somebody goes to war with you over it, you shouldn't really be surprised. I mean, you guys didn't do anything when Polar hit \m/ over our tech raids and us saying "doing something about it." Hell, you maintained the treaty.
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I'm not surprised at all, I'm just pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of the moralists -
"He told me to" is now a valid CB as long as it's declared on GOONS. The double standards continue
I do seem to recall Rebel Virginia trying to goad us into attacking him a few times, if we DoW on NSO for that should we expect the same support from the moralists? -
[quote name='Ejayrazz' timestamp='1285741759' post='2467990']
Hey, I got a question. Are we an alliance?
Just wondering.
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Sure, I guess so. -
Let's roll.
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Hey are those stats also rife with inaccuracies like your old thread?
The Parable of the Angel and the Devil
in Open World RP
Posted
[quote name='Emphix' timestamp='1286050347' post='2472423']
I agree for the concept of good to exist, people need to know and experience something to be called "bad" first.
However, if the "bad guy" suddenly saying they are doing bad things so the "good guy" can exist or have something to do, now that's just plain joke. Self justification at its worst (and funniest).
[/quote]
I hope you realize this is an OOC forum.