Proko
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Posts posted by Proko
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If UPN or IAA is attacked, I expect Invicta and Polaris to be fighting side by side. If Invicta is attacked and UPN and IAA defend you, do not automatically assume Polaris will take up the call. Our treaties with both make such defense optional.
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Yeah, that's what I thought at first, but when I think of that I think of the BFF aggression clause and it doesn't look like that at all. =\ Is it just implied through the title then as opposed to being written out in the article?Should either signatory find it necessary to commit an act of aggression upon a third party, they may request military support from the other signatory, though this request is under no circumstances an obligation.
The article is titled "Mutual Aggression" because it clarifies the circumstances under which mutual aggression is defined. A MDP could have a section titled "Mutual Aggression" that declares "This treaty is not in any way whatsoever justification for mutual aggression," because it is defining mutual aggression in the context of the treaty.
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I was the Deputy Minister of Truth (Foreign Affairs) for Polaris at the outbreak of the war. I assisted RandomInterrupt and Myworld in assembling the coalition that would face the Unjust Path over the summer, and I was generally present at all of the talks that would eventually become the creation of One Vision. The Unjust War was probably the most concentrated amount of fun I have ever had in this game, and I would frankly attribute that to Sponge, Hannah, Shan, DarkMistress, and the rest of the people with whom I was (OOC) skyping every day before, during, and after the conflict.
I attacked Ochocinco in the initial blitz (I had no idea who he was at the time) and I was immediately counter-attacked by \m/ nations Sarriz and Oreocookie before the \m/ declaration of war. Fun fact: of my four initial opponents, three went on to become Triumvirs of small alliances (Ocho - Heroes of Gaming, Sarriz - CMEA, Oreocookie - PURGE.) I didn't stay in touch with them, but they were generally fun and dynamic opponents, and we fought until stalemate. After the first week, I started tackling GOONS with nukes that remained that had fallen out of nuclear range (this is before the MP, after all) to absorb and spy the nukes. My nation has never been that valuable
I was in the Polar government chamber when Jason8 queried Sponge to hopelessly ask for peace, to which Sponge gave him the merciless terms demanding a personalized apology from every member of \m/ to every member of Polaris. I was on the proto-One Vision
(OOC) Skype call when the Optimus Prime Minister of GOONS (whose name is still banned on these boards, if I remember correctly) made his infamous post. Doitzel, Sponge, and I put together the coalition that would occupy #riverbed in the month before the war, before Doitzel's expulsion from the Order.
I don't really have a quality narrative of my experiences in the war; most of it was spent on (OOC) Skype and tt was a great time. I will miss those days.
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You nuke count, strength, and signature are all utterly fantastic.
The sig is the work of my esteemed Polar comrade D34th.
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Fantastic.
If only the score system wasn't so arbitrary, we would be placed second now.
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Congratulations
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I am in favor of more nukes existing.
Congratulations, Athens
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I am happy to see our friendship with the IAA manifest itself in this treaty.
o/ IAA
o/ Polaris.
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Congratulations to our favorite tigers
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The character of this announcement is so a-typical I don't really know how I can respond, or how anyone can. Perhaps it's because it seems like pure honesty without an agenda, at least without a very clear one.
Congratulations to IRON on their liberation. I remember the feeling when our terms finally ended, and it is rather wonderful.
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I have a question for Internet Superheroes regarding this situation:
What is the problem with refunding the tech you stole?
It never belonged to you until this coordinated strike against the Crimson Guard, and it had previously belonged to Crimson Guard. As far as I can possibly understand, the tech would still belong to Crimson Guard if not for this tech raid. I am beyond understanding why good-nature is not part of your diplomacy here; the tech is not yours, but you are not returning it. It is not honorable, nor is it just, and the total sum garnered by this expedition cannot be all that high.
Additionally, to the complaints that this thread exists and that Francesca took it public, I disagree, and believe a public thread when under unjustified attack to be a rather reasonable decision. I cannot say I would do any differently.
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OOC: One problem with your "history" mate. This is Cybernations politics and history, not RL politics and history, so your attempt at tearing this alliance apart has only resulted in you going severely OOC like I have just now. There has yet to be a Hunnic or Mongol alliance in CyberNations until this one IIRC. As such, the history you are referring to does not actually exist in the politics and history that you should be referring to in this section of these forums. In the future, I suggest either making your post one with OOC tags or refraining from posting things like that at all because, as I said earlier, they do not exist in an IC sense. /OOC
To all those that are tearing this alliance apart, I must say, you are sad indeed. Why not welcome this alliance with open arms and see what it grows into before judging and tearing it apart?
OOC: I'm not necessarily judging the quality of the people, or the potential of this alliance, by my desire to facepalm at a leader adopting the more famous name and title of Temüjin, "Genghis Khan," and subsequently styling himself "Khan" of the Huns.
There isn't much historical evidence either way for which linguistic group the Huns are from, but it can be reasonably garnered that the people that arrived in Europe around the 4th century CE, who may have even been Turkic, did not share a common name for Divine Lord with an ethno-linguistic group that had not only been reasonably separated from the rest of the Central Turkic languages because they traditionally inhabited more Eastern lands, but also emerged on the world stage millennium afterward.
IC: I wish you guys all the luck in the world with your new alliance.
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Nice to see this
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EDIT:
After my initially incorrect guess on account of temporary dyslexia, I would say the error is
[218] (+1) Athens : 19.05 --> 19.14 (+0.11)
which is a change of +0.09
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I will happily join your club in exactly 50 days.
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Great treaty between two great alliances. o/
If someone could indulge my curiousity and forgive my ignorance, what happened to cause the previous treaty between the two to be cancelled?
When a number of alliances began canceling their treaties with Polaris last summer, UPN was one of few that did not immediately follow suit, and instead asked questions, in order to find their own answers and come to their own understanding. They temporarily suspended our treaty the night before Sponge was deposed, on account of the logs he posted, and afterward the constantly offered to renew it and re-sign. There are a lot of good alliances that stood by us and fought with us, but I think UPN was the only alliance offering to sign a new treaty in the month between the cancellation of the Ordinance and the Second Patriotic War. During the war, if I remember correctly, they swore to aid us as soon as the war was over (I might be mistaken about that).
The friendship they showed has not been forgotten, and I am very honored to re-establish a binding treaty with them.
o/ UPN
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That's up to Sorum whether or not he wants to pay reps to RV.
The nation with protectors could have taken it up with the person who attacked them - as it was a tech raid, we would not have get involved.
The argument that tF supported this tech raid is flawed - if you thought that, GDI would have attacked Sorum, and you would have seen that we would not have defended him. Instead, you attacked uninvolved nations to guarantee we would defend our comrades then tried to play it off as us setting up Sorum to start an alliance war.
Well, I assume it is up to the leader of the Family, as someone was sure to point out that Sorum is not the leader, but rather the Minister of Foreign Affairs. If he is in charge of the reps here, then I really have no idea what separates him from the supreme executive of your alliance.
I think you're correct in your claim - GDI probably should not have attacked the Family beyond just Sorum himself, and the details of the attack aren't really known to me. But the Family is still endorsing this tech raid...or they wouldn't be endorsing it right now. You have your member's back, and I can appreciate that.
However, Rebel Virginia's nation was still attacked unjustly, regardless of GDI's response.
Is there a figure for the amount of damage sustained by the Family from GDI's attacks? And, to Rebel Virginia, is there a figure for the amount of damage done to your nation from the Family's attacks?
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This^
GDI could have jumped Sorum, but instead you chose to attack other tF nations. You made this an alliance war, not us.
I think that could be a fair claim. But you attacked a nation with protectors and there are consequences for that. You ignored my question and I don't think it was an unfair one.
Will the Family pay for the damages done to RV's nations? GDI, in my experience with them, are reasonable people. I'm sure if you can come to an agreement with RV, an arrangement of mutual reparations can be probably be realized.
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We want reparations due to innocent nations being attacked.
And, subsequently, I assume you're willing to pay Rebel Virginia for the damages incurred by the Family?
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I figure by this point people need a tl;dr.
Past:
Sorum raids Rebel Virginia -> Rebel Virginia !@#$%*es about it on the OWF, makes an ultimatum to tF -> GDI attacks tF nations -> During negotiations, a non-government member of tF makes an agreement to GDI for peace -> Rest of tF rejects this peace -> Defense of tF nations continues
Present:
Rebel Virginia !@#$%*es that tF is defending its members, GDI declares war on tF for defending its members
Future:
tF blows up RV and GDI via superior military tactics.
Why doesn't the Family want peace?
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By the way, two people alliances are rarely considered real alliances.
I mean, maybe. But there have been several cases in the past where unaligned individuals have been protected by alliances, and I don't think Optional Clauses should be overlooked. For example, isn't Argent protecting Ejayrazz (or something like that?) WarriorConcept was once protected by Pacifica, and PPF is/was protected by MK. Regardless of whether the alliance is big or not, these protectorates have generally been respected. I'm not trying to make anyone look bad here, I just don't understand where the difficulty in this situation lies.
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We supported the fact that our charter allows our members to tech raid, and weren't going to expel Sorum for raiding
This does not mean we supported the idea of Sorum raiding RV, or that we were going to defend him militarily.
Right. Many alliances that raid forbid their members from raiding nations with alliance affiliations. There have been dozens of messy political situations on account of tech raiding, and it seems in this case, as far as I can tell, that both GDI and FAIL were willing to accept a pretty modest peace settlement.
I have seen a few old Polar nations get raided and we usually don't treat the attackers very kindly. But we're usually able to work out deals with the alliance of the attacker, and we go our separate ways.
What is the Family's problem in this circumstance? This is a problem that happens often, why is peace not easy to come by?
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Blue Moon and Boddington's are pretty great, but Carlsberg Elephant? When I was in Germany I enjoyed a good Carlberg when I was out, but I had the misfortune of encountering Elephant twice and both times found it totally repulsive.
But hooray for Blue Moon.
Heyo
Zhadum reveals NPO information: organized logs
in World Affairs (IC)
Posted
So long as you're aware the primary causes for that one gigantic war against us that one time were the indiscretions of Electron Sponge, then whatever. The issue has come up before, and we have paid a very, very dear price for it. If you have not yet felt that justice has been done, then I encourage you to try and extract it. Sponge is still an Imperator Emeritus of my alliance, and well-regarded one at that.