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Hi, i appreciate you taking the time to type all that ... but really the question wasn't directed at you. So step the F*ck off. Protip: Don't answer a question that you don't understand.

The followup question is: If some wanted reps, why was it necessary to talk them out of it? Or why weren't they allowed to request reps?

Straightforward question: Did some of the alliances who signed this want reps? Answer carefully ... there are now 60 pages full of posts which will contradict whatever your answer is!

I shouldn't waste a lot of time typing metaphors to get my point across?

Strange I always thought the crippling peace terms were meant to cripple. It always seemed to me that the Orders were about removing the competition ... thus that old adage "me today you tomorrow".

You didn't try to accommodate me, you wanted the logs, and I wouldn't give them to you. My quest is only to find out why people deny the obvious. There is no karma leadership, only karma members, and no one knows exactly who they are. Best of luck to you, and whatever it is you have planned.

Again ... try to pin it to PC *sigh* I grow tired of your inability to grasp what are very straightforward questions. Either that or you are trying to be obtuse to smoke screen. Pretend my AA is Utility Muffin Research Kitchen, it will help you focus on the conversation, and stop drifting to details which don't matter.

I want you to look up the word: Need, compare and contrast with the word: Want. Report on my desk by 18et tomorrow evening, 200 words or less.

I believe a gentleman from kronos commented that no one wanted reps, would you consider that factual? Threats are out on the table. Nope, not a sign of strong arm tactics anywhere. Well if i change my AA can we continue with the discussion? You will have to settle for just threatening me though, as uninteresting as that is ... what goes around, comes around.

This has nothing to do with PC, or PC needing reps. Quite the contrary PC doesn't need them, and PC doesn't need aid. Strong like bull ... And to all those folks saying "ask your gov't", i have discussed (and it is being discussed) on our forums. The fact is, I like discussing these issues out in the open for everyone to see. The other fact is that most of my information comes from folks who see me posting here, and either agree with me or just like to tell dirty little secrets. And they know me well enough i will press the issue til its relatively apparent what the truth is. Bout the only side i dont have logs from is PC ... i wouldn't ask, and they know me well enough not to give them. I am only interested in getting to the bottom of things, no fluff, no spin, no nonsense. jsut the facts ma'am.

Why not discuss it here? Certainly the conditions under which Valhala was let off the hook is pertinent to this thread. Lets talk about how no one wanted reps from Valhala ... that is your story right, at least not in the conversations you were apart of? I mean if logs were to surface that showed the opposite were true, that would sort of look bad wouldn't it? ya know with this whole "no one wanted them, we are united and happy and hugging" angle you are working.

Congratulations Athens, you are the winner of the May "grow yourself a pair" Award for not succumbing to the wussification of CN.

What about everyone else? Did it matter? When did Umbrella become the straw that stirs the drink? Is this that New World Order thing that Karma is putting in place?

I suggest you stop assuming I haven't read their side of it, lest you make yourself the fool

Obviously they agreed to them, they signed it. I am contesting the implication that PC gov't "made up" these terms, or even brought a white peace to the table. If discussed means being in the channel when these terms were presented, then I believe this to be the case. If discussed means to respect their requests, needs, and give them an opportunity to influence the final verdict, then I am doubtful. I am suggesting that alliances fighting under different circumstances (who admitted in this thread that in PC's situation they would have gotten reps) weren't willing to give in to anything other than White Peace for all involved.

I find it rather odd that you contradict what my leadership says. Would you care to provide the logs where PC leadership "made up these terms"?

Ahhh ... and here in essence is why white peace is gonna bite you in the $@! ... sense the sarcasm? that little tinge of delight, the glimmer of hope and the arrogance because they got off easy? this isnt what you want, the defeated trolling surrender threads ... didnt take long did it? man ... just a matter of time before they come back for you

*sigh* so wrapped up in your misguided lessons in morality you don't know your $@! from a hole in the ground, and too pompous and arrogant to recognize it. I haven't put words in your mouth, so don't put them in mine. Cake ... Karma is handing out a lot of cake. I expect it will still be on the breath of the peasants when they come for your heads.

Why then were the targets of Valhala's aggression not allowed reps?

Isn't trying to be one of the cool kids, why your where you are right now? If anyone is a poster boy for the lure of private channels , it is you. "OMG Moo asked who I was, then kicked me. ROFL" WHERE IS YOUR WHITE PEACE NOW?

egads ... had the true nature of you and your ilk been apparent before this whole fiasco began, i would have fought against you rather than beside you. you make me sick with your lies. "Karma , what comes around goes around." lies ... every word of it.

No, but obviously PC's allies have a lower view of them than I do. I at least think they can read.

I am also pushing for an Alliance name change ... from Poison Clan to Lap Dogs.

Know what? And I know "what" how? That they should all resign? because these people are just trying to keep their invite to that private irc channel of the new world order, and they are willing to bend over for it. Why the general membership isn't being served? See above.

The meat is that every member of government that signed this (cept for valhala of course, kudos to them) ought to resign for screwing over the people who elected them, or placed enough trust in them to allow them to lead. Whose interests are being served here? certainly not the general membership ...