Joint Pacifican - J Andres Announcement

[iamthey]

Recognizing our shared allies and the proximity of our various territories, the people of Pacifica and J Adres have found it fitting to establish a defensive pact. Following a series of private meetings, the following treaty-text has been approved and signed by representatives of both governments.

[quote][u][b] J Andres-Pacifican Defense Pact[/b][/u]

[b]Prequel:[/b]
Resolved that shared interests between the nations of Greater Pacifica and J Andres, the before mentioned hereby commit themselves to the following articles.


[b]Article I:[/b] Sovereignty
The Sovereignty of both nations shall not be questioned or otherwise infringed upon by either. Each nation will abstain from military acts of aggression, acts of espionage or the effecting of economic sanctions when such actions are directed at a signatory to this pact.


[b]Article II:[/b] Mutual Defense
Each signatory recognizes that an attack on one is an attack on the other, and therefore will provide any and all requested support be it military, financial, or political. This obligation is moreover conditional to wars whereby one of the signatories to this pact is an initial point within the overall conflict, or otherwise participating within a coalition that was itself initially defensive, and not the aggressor within the war.


[b]Article III:[/b] Optional Aggression
i) Should either signatory choose to execute or participate in a policy of aggressive war, economic sanctions, or otherwise; each signatory is encouraged but not obligated to support this policy by whatever means they deem appropriate.
ii) In the event of such a policy this article may constitute an independent legal casus belli.


[b]Article IV:[/b] Economic & Trade Affairs

i) Both signatories pledge to eliminate tariffs and enact a policy of free trade. Moreover both signatories agree to established a standard trade code in order to foster transaction between the two nations. Such will be managed by a jointly chaired trade commission tasked to oversee and manage Pacifican-J Andres trade relations.

ii) Both signatories are encouraged but in no way required to provide economic assistance or aid when requested.


[b]Article IV:[/b] Cancellation

i) Should Article I, Article II, or Article IV be violated by either signatory, the counter signatory may choose to immediately dissolve this pact in its entirety.

ii) Should either nation come to decide that they no longer wish to be bound by this pact, it may be cancelled at any point. However its articles will remain in effect for 47 hours after either private or public notification of the activation of Article V.


[b]Signatures[/b]

[b]For Greater Pacifica:[/b]

[b]H.M Ryn Atrevier:[/b] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/iamthey/RynAtreviersig-1.png[/img]
King of Greater Pacifica
Rex Pacifica


[b]For J Andres:[/b]

Richard Mercton, President of J Andres
Benjamin Richards, Prime Minister
Mickey Bethesda, Foreign Minister
[/quote]

[JEDCJT]

"We confirm this. Here's to this treaty, to our friendship, to our relations!"

[Yawoo]

A Private Message would be sent to J Andres:

This treaty with the Pacificans is unacceptable. Consider our treaty to be under review.

- Louisianan State Department

[JEDCJT]

[quote name='Yawoo' timestamp='1285524458' post='2465284']
A Private Message would be sent to J Andres:

This treaty with the Pacificans is unacceptable. Consider our treaty to be under review.

- Louisianan State Department
[/quote]

[b]PRIVATE[/b]

"[i]Well, well, I didnt know we needed Louisiana's approval for every action we took.[/i]" Mickey Bethesda grumbled to himself as he read the message from Louisiana.

[b]CLASSIFIED[/b]

May we ask of why this treaty with the Pacificans is unacceptable to you?

- J Andrean Foreign Ministry

[Yawoo]

[quote name='JEDCJT' timestamp='1285528050' post='2465325']
[b]PRIVATE[/b]

"[i]Well, well, I didnt know we needed Louisiana's approval for every action we took.[/i]" Mickey Bethesda grumbled to himself as he read the message from Louisiana.

[b]CLASSIFIED[/b]

May we ask of why this treaty with the Pacificans is unacceptable to you?

- J Andrean Foreign Ministry
[/quote]

Classified:

I would have expected a close ally to understand the foreign affairs of their allies. Pacifica has not had good relations with Louisiana since the signing of the O.U. beyond that, Pacifican forces threatened Louisiana during the rise of the most recent incarnation of the Tahoe Republic.

- Louisiana Department of State

[Triyun]

The United Federation of the East and the People's Republic of China in particular praise this treaty between two of our oldest and strongest friends. We hope that this strengthens the cooperative ties between the responsible Great Powers of the world in acting in concert for the maintenance of international peace and order.

-Chairman Jia

[iamthey]

[quote name='Yawoo' timestamp='1285528869' post='2465339']
Classified:

I would have expected a close ally to understand the foreign affairs of their allies. Pacifica has not had good relations with Louisiana since the signing of the O.U. beyond that, Pacifican forces threatened Louisiana during the rise of the most recent incarnation of the Tahoe Republic.

- Louisiana Department of State
[/quote]

OOC: I'm not sure what you are talking about Yawoo. The only negative interaction I can recall between us is OOC. I signed a treaty with mudd, and stated that I would do what I had to in order to protect his existence, and even then I never actually had to intervene. That being said, I don't think I ever threatened you or called you out IC. In fact thinking back on it the only significant interaction we've ever had was positive, when we fought together against mudd.

Moreover power recently changed hands and a new political party under a new leader has taken control. It is essentially an entirely different government. Publicly my priarmy character, (crown prince) Michael Atrevier, has provided support to imperialism arguing against its detractors and advocating an essentially internationalist and expansionist position (though he is not in power at this time). So at the very worst I would say Pacifica is ambivalent to Louisiana. I would also point out that our interests are hardly in conflict, we've never fought one another, we really are not on the opposite side of the treaty web, and the only nation we've ever been close to fighting over just collapsed. If Louisiana feels differently then it is probably paranoia. *shrugs*

Edited September 26, 2010 by iamthey

[Yawoo]

[quote name='iamthey' timestamp='1285540385' post='2465538']
OOC: I'm not sure what you are talking about Yawoo. The only negative interaction I can recall between us is OOC. I signed a treaty with mudd, and stated that I would do what I had to in order to protect his existence, and even then I never actually had to intervene. That being said, I don't think I ever threatened you or called you out IC. In fact thinking back on it the only significant interaction we've ever had was positive, when we fought together against mudd.

Moreover power recently changed hands and a new political party under a new leader has taken control. It is essentially an entirely different government. Publicly my priarmy character, (crown prince) Michael Atrevier, has provided support to imperialism arguing against its detractors and advocating an essentially internationalist and expansionist position (though he is not in power at this time). So at the very worst I would say Pacifica is ambivalent to Louisiana. I would also point out that our interests are hardly in conflict, we've never fought one another, we really are not on the opposite side of the treaty web, and the only nation we've ever been close to fighting over just collapsed. If Louisiana feels differently then it is probably paranoia. *shrugs*
[/quote]

OOC:

Louisiana argued quite heavily against a certain clause in the OU and was ignored. Pacifican forces were in Tahoean lands ready to fight Louisianan soldiers, since then, you've signed a treaty with Tahoe, long a non-friendly nation towards Louisiana. Regardless or not if your government supports imperialism, there has been a too many actions that have been against Louisianan interests for my government to like yours.

[iamthey]

[quote name='Yawoo' timestamp='1285542208' post='2465552']
OOC:

Louisiana argued quite heavily against a certain clause in the OU and was ignored. Pacifican forces were in Tahoean lands ready to fight Louisianan soldiers, since then, you've signed a treaty with Tahoe, long a non-friendly nation towards Louisiana. Regardless or not if your government supports imperialism, there has been a too many actions that have been against Louisianan interests for my government to like yours.
[/quote]

OOC:

1) There was a major public opinion shift in Pacifica much of which centered around various clauses in the OU, the new administration recently withdrew from the pact. If you are mad about being ignored that is something Louisiana should take up with the Queendom, my government had nothing to do with that.

2) As I recall, I never landed troops in Tahoe, while I indeed planned on doing so (ooc), I only ever prepared troops for deployment and started moving them from wellington to the eastern portion of my territory. The matter was resolved before troops actually arrived.

I'm not saying we are best buds, but the only negative interaction we have had has been OOC, indirect, or implied. We were a signatory to the OU, but other members told you to buzz off not us. We did sign a treaty with mudd, but we never explicitly threatened you that was an implied threat. I joined APPLE, a terrible bloc, but I was hardly its spokesman and the bloc ultimately didn't amount to anything. Implied/indirect. We clashed a bit over the Deschaine matter, but again OOC. None of this exactly constitutes a valid justification for heavy dislike. Ambivalence perhaps, distrust maybe, but not really enough to justify muscling around JED. You have a good thing going, don't let whatever suspicions you have about me destroy it.

Edited September 26, 2010 by iamthey

[Sargun II]

OOC: There's no issue here. You admit you moved troops to defend Mudd, you admit you were in a bloc Louisiana opposed, and you admit that you could perhaps be distrusted by Louisiana. An implied threat is still a threat, and Yawoo has every right to RP what he wishes in regards to a government response. Remember that just because you feel there may only be room for distrust, he may feel differently. Different nations in real life react diversely to different things.

This argument is pointless. I don't expect Yawoo or yourself to RP every reaction to everything you guys are about. If Yawoo decided that he would go to war over this treaty, you may have a point - but the reaction here does not scream of an OOC-IC line crossing. If China and Japan are going to wage economic war over a single boat captain, I don't see a problem here.

[iamthey]

OOC: Right I'm not saying he 'can't' do whatever he wants. I'm just saying that anything beyond distrust is an irrational response based in intuition rather than actual events and statements which can be referenced (Which while fine when you are talking about personal relationships, is totally ridiculous when we are discussion something as intricate and complex as multi-national blocs and political interactions). If we took this to an IC conference, our actions could be denied, passed off, or explained with relatively little difficulty.

Edited September 26, 2010 by iamthey

[Yawoo]

[quote name='iamthey' timestamp='1285543344' post='2465562']
OOC:

1) There was a major public opinion shift in Pacifica much of which centered around various clauses in the OU, the new administration recently withdrew from the pact. If you are mad about being ignored that is something Louisiana should take up with the Queendom, my government had nothing to do with that.

2) As I recall, I never landed troops in Tahoe, while I indeed planned on doing so (ooc), I only ever prepared troops for deployment and started moving them from wellington to the eastern portion of my territory. The matter was resolved before troops actually arrived.

I'm not saying we are best buds, but the only negative interaction we have had has been OOC, indirect, or implied. We were a signatory to the OU, but other members told you to buzz off not us. We did sign a treaty with mudd, but we never explicitly threatened you that was an implied threat. I joined APPLE, a terrible bloc, but I was hardly its spokesman and the bloc ultimately didn't amount to anything. Implied/indirect. We clashed a bit over the Deschaine matter, but again OOC. None of this exactly constitutes a valid justification for heavy dislike. Ambivalence perhaps, distrust maybe, but not really enough to justify muscling around JED. You have a good thing going, don't let whatever suspicions you have about me destroy it.
[/quote]

OOC:

I'm not taking into account my OOC actions with regards to the recent DeSchaine/European War - please don't make that mistake.

1) You were an integral part of the O.U., and at the time Louisiana protested the anti-foreigners colonization clause, your government chose to not take action that the Louisianan government liked, while later, colonizing a territory that many view as part of North America's SoI. A change in government, and the withdraw from the OU doesn't change the fact that for many IC years, you were apart of a bloc that Louisiana has hated.

2) You issued a statement saying you would get involved if any other nation besides Louisiana / S. Tahoe did anything against N. Tahoe, while at the same time, supported, publicly, N. Tahoe. That didn't win you friends in Louisiana, by any means.

Your government and mine have barely interacted, but when we have, it has never been pleasant or beneficial to Louisiana. I thank you for your foreign affair advice, but whatever happens to my treaty with JED will be the result of a chain of events, and not because of my "suspicions"

[iamthey]

OOC: Fair enough, I can't change how you are going to interpret the past. With respect to your foreign affairs you are free to do as you wish.

Edited September 27, 2010 by iamthey