Arynar Ventys

Arynar had slightly researched the Eternal Commonwealth Bloc before coming here, fully expecting to have to sign it in the name of his new country. He took the pen from her hands, scanned it to make sure it was what he thought it was, then jotted down his signature. He stood there, thinking for a while about just what this meant. He had, indeed, secured himself and his companions a plot of land, and a new country to live in. And he had signed a treaty, all in less than a couple of hours. He was beginning to wonder if all of this was real. "Forgive me, Empress, but this is all real, is it not? I'm not dreaming or anything, am I? It's almost like the world is turning slower than it should."

I would just like to clear up a small inconsistency; Baron never did originally, or ever, state that he didn't want the RP to happen. He was just asking for it to be non-canon. As I've stated, I don't have a problem with it so long as it doesn't affect me IC, me being new to CNRP and all, and needing a slow rooting into this place. Which is why I originally jumped the gun saying 'OMG OMG THIS CAN'T AFFECT ME I WANT IT NON-CANON!' Naturally, I don't have a problem with it now. In fact, just the opposite, from everything I'm hearing so far. There is always an alternative to saying that it just didn't happen. :V

Arynar was slightly surprised at how fast the Empress had decided on a plot of land. That was before looking at the plot she had given him. Upon looking at it, his mouth was agape. "Um... I... Well, this is certainly much more than we could have hoped for. I'm... not quite sure what to say, your Imperial Magesty. No amount of thanks could support my claim of gratitude." He stood there momentarily, lost in thought, as he continued to comprehend exactly what to do with all of this land. He really had no idea... Until it hit him - While he would be under the tutelage of the Greater Japanese Empire, he and the rest of his group will be free to rule as they so wish. This meant that they could pretty much do anything with this plot of land- within reason to the resources they had at their disposal. The opportunities were limitless. When he came out of his stupor, he had a renewed amount of energy within himself. "Very well. I, speaking for the people I represent, agree to this plot of land... I am certain there are other things you wish to discuss as part of this agreement?"

[quote name='Emperor Mudd' date='11 February 2010 - 12:36 AM' timestamp='1265877391' post='2174343'] Hey everybody (mostly Uberstein since everyone else is being perfectly reasonable): stop being whiny little kids. RP is supposed to be fun. It doesn't matter what the "rules" are, if one or more people decide to have an RP than literallly anything can happen. This forum was way better back before you spoiled meglomaniacs started trying to impose your "rules" and !@#$ on us. Its ROLE PLAYING. Get over it. [/quote] We aren't arguing whether it's roleplaying or not, we aren't even arguing if it's allowed to be RP. We are simply requesting that it be labeled as non-canon, so that it doesn't affect EVERYBODY, instead of just the select group of people that are RPing. Because, after all, Canon affects everybody. non-canon is selective to those that join. Edit - to save myself from double posting... I'm going to have to stand down from this argument. I went back and reread JerryRough's post a couple of times, and I'm afraid that I have to agree to his statements. From what I read from your RP, this is you trying to come back into the scene again. While I would prefer a more logical solution to coming back from the dead, I can't deny you your ability to roleplay. For this intent, I'm willing to bend the canon vs non-canon line... Proceed, even though you didn't really need my permission anyway. Edit 2 - Again, to save from what would've been triple posting now... I'm also going to apologize for the way I was taking this. I realized after re-reading my posts a few times that I was taking a WAY too strict approach to 'canon.' My fault entirely, won't happen again.

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' date='11 February 2010 - 12:23 AM' timestamp='1265876634' post='2174326'] Yes, accept it in or out of character though? I'm not asking everyone to accept it in character, they can believe what they want. I'm asking them to accept it as occurring in the world out of character, a very notable difference. [/quote] Then wouldn't that make it non-canon? After all, you're saying that not everyone HAS to accept it. Therefore, it should be non-canon.

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' date='10 February 2010 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1265873723' post='2174278'] My version of Canon seems to be far more accepted than yours is thus far. You seem to be part of the select few wanting this shot down. CNRP is not run the way you have described. The rules are not made to enforce science but to establish standards of interaction, therefore your argument is in fact wrong if you look at the original rules the intent of this is very clear otherwise if it were to enforce science, the AI and the moon base would also have to be removed as they are not proven as possible as of yet. It is not proven that a human mind can inhabit a network or a mechanical apparatus unharmed and in a state that would preserve its original form. There is, thus, no scientific basis behind the possibility of Lynneth's AI and you are applying the rules selectively based on what you believe should and should not be scientific fact. In other words, it is your opinion. If I cannot rp this then there is no reason Lynneth should be permitted his AI. If the community can accept AI, then they can accept the patron deity of my state as being its leader whether they believe it IC or not. I'm sorry, the rules are not made to discriminate and to present ones ideas as better than any others, yet that is what you are attempting to use them for. THat said, it is a misapplication and misinterpretation to your own standard. You will have to get a role play mod to tell me this is non-cannon. If he does, I'll expect them to also review Lynneth's situation which is an equivocal breach of known science and the mars bases and anything else which qualifies as a potential breach of known science to consider reversing all of its implementation. You have faith in Science, but no faith in God. Science has become your religion. You say everyone in CNRP must accept something for it to become cannon, then if I or any other person accept none of it, what happens then? [/quote] Please, please try to understand that we aren't telling you to not RP this event at all. We are simply stating that it should be, and most likely is, non-canon, because by the mere definition of non-canon, which you are agreeing upon from what you've said, is something that does not affect the community as a whole. In other words, this event will not affect the rest of us that are RPing in CNRP, as it has no bearing on the ENTIRE community. And as for the whole science thing, I don't think you've understood or fully read some of my previous posts. Canon is in reference to the item it is referencing. In other words, Mars Bases in CN are canon, because Mars Bases exist in CN, so therefore they exist in CNRP. As for Lynneth, it is also entirely possible; as Baron stated, there have been many advances in AI technology in the past few years alone, and in all reality, given the allowance that tech can be created after you hit a certain amount of in-game tech, it should've been possible for him. Since CN is based off of the real world, with a alternate reality spin to it, then Gods and Spirits shouldn't exist. Along a similar line of thinking, science is the most stable foundation for CNRP because it is based off of the real world. Faith and Religion have not been proven to be true fact, scientific or not. It's merely a perception at this point, a belief. It holds no more truth than a hypothesis. Edit - I didn't read the last, so I'll respond to that as well... I'm not saying that everyone must accept it to be canon. I'm saying that if it is canon, everyone HAS to accept it.

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' date='10 February 2010 - 11:19 PM' timestamp='1265872794' post='2174258'] So what you are saying is that science beats faith? Anyway Il not go on about it I will leave Mael to go on doing what he wants and I guess if people make any OOC posts in his thread then he can always report them for spam. [/quote] Sorry for the essential repost, but... I think it got skipped over with the change of pages. === Another reason, which better explains our issue with this, is that Canon HAS to be accepted by the ENTIRE community, not just a select few. non-canon, on the other hand, doesn't have to be, and only involves those that involved themselves, but it has no real bearing on the ENTIRE community.

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' date='10 February 2010 - 11:07 PM' timestamp='1265872078' post='2174244'] Hmm okay well neither side is going to back down so how about anyone not believing in faith but rather science class it as non-canon and ignore mael's post and those of us believing in faith go on classing it as canon and rping it as so. As long as it doesnt cross over we should all be fine. [/quote] No, we cannot. It is non-canon, unless you can prove faith to be scientific fact in reference to CN, which is the way CNRP is run. Edit - I would be, personally, perfectly fine with this if there was some technological basis behind it, which, being CNRP, and considering the Lynneth scene, is entirely possible. Edit again - Another reason, which better explains our issue with this, is that Canon HAS to be accepted by the ENTIRE community, not just a select few. non-canon, on the other hand, doesn't have to be, and only involves those that involved themselves, but it has no real bearing on the ENTIRE community.

I think the word canon is being misconstrued here. Canon is fact. Canon is real. Canon is something tangible. even fantasy books, which for all intents and purposes have no technological basis at all, have the 'canon' side and 'non-canon' side. 'non-canon' is something that's fictional to the thing it is referencing. 'canon' is always fact. Gods and Spirits are not something that have been proven by science, and since CNRP is run off of fact and science, within reason to the game CN itself - in reference to mars colonies- then there shouldn't be canon Gods and Spirits. And to clarify for Kevin - Canon is something that is fact towards the thing it is referencing, and to repeat the above, non-canon is something that is not-fact, fiction, to the thing it is referencing. This is CN, mars colonies are real.

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' date='10 February 2010 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1265871116' post='2174230'] Mael if push comes to shove those of us involved can and will class it as canon and those that want to cry and moan can class it as non-canon. After all the worst they can do is fill a thread with OOC talk which you can report as spam. Either way I look forward to your continued posts, [/quote] In case you weren't reading what I was typing, that statement there by definition makes it non-canon. No hostile intent in the above words. edit - "We have canon mars colonies even though there is no proof they could work. If a small minority said they didn't believe they could exsist then does that make them non-canon?" The mere fact that this is CNRP and that it's tied to CN at all states that mars colony technology is real. Therefore it is canon.

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' date='10 February 2010 - 10:48 PM' timestamp='1265870928' post='2174227'] Im not being hsotile with you or id be swearing and shouting. What I was trying to say was that just because someone doesnt believe some thing exsists doesnt mean it doesnt. Maybe God doesnt exsist or maybe he does but becuase we dont know for sure there is nothing to stop someone rping it if it only involves them or the people they are rping with. [/quote] There is though, and that thing is called canon. Canon is what everyone can agree on, because it is true reality, and religion isn't something that can be agreed upon entirely, because a lot of people don't see the proof in it. Also, I'm sorry for percieving your words as hostile. @Malstrom - We never said don't RP. We just said don't call it canon.

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' date='10 February 2010 - 10:45 PM' timestamp='1265870709' post='2174217'] Sure, I built a Great Temple. I'm exploiting its benefits by having a cult and coming back as Patron Deity of my state having no more or no less than the powers of the state itself as it is embodied on Bob. Tech is not necessary, I have the RP basis and a wonder to support it. [/quote] Great temple does not equal Gods and Spirits existing. Great Temple equals 'I have a religion, and my people believe in that religion.' Religion is a belief, which allows you to percieve things a certain way. That doesn't mean that said perception is the true reality.

He was never saying that you couldn't RP it. He was merely stating that he didn't want it being canon, meaning he didn't want it to affect the real CNRP. non-canon is like it's own little branch of reality, like you are trying to do here. By all means, go ahead and do that, just don't call it canon, because it's not something we can all agree on. Give us some form of tech that is supported by the tech level of your nation, then we might consider it. Otherwise, don't call it canon. Also : Kevin, what the hell? Why are you trying to be hostile with me? I'm not saying that he doesn't exist and you can't either, because it's canon, he does exist. He made his DoE, he's on the map. That's canon. What you're doing is disputed as to whether it's canon or not, and since not everyone can agree that it's canon it would be best to call it non-canon until it's resolved.

"Because there is a real God." Whoa whoa whoa! While I agree that there is a higher power, I also agree that CNRP Canon is things that only everyone can agree on, and really, 'Gods and Spirits being real' isn't something everyone can agree on. Edit - Don't bring your god down upon us. That's forcing beliefs upon others, and it's what you're accusing Baron of doing... Hypocrisy much?

When he realised that the Empress Haruhi would indeed not kill him, he couldn't help but let out a sigh of relief. Ventys was about to lift his head, until he felt the blade lift from his hands. He knew better than to expect her to go against her word, even when he felt the blade press against his shoulders. After his 'knighting' was said and done, he couldn't help but let out a chuckle, "Of course, my leige." He stood, turning his back to her momentarily. When he returned to face her, his eyes were alit with a fire unbeknownst to him before hand. It was almost as if being in the Empresses presence had flipped a switch that lighted a path, and suddenly he knew exactly where he should take this, and what words to start with. "Forgive me for saying this, but even the Empress cannot keep all of the paths a citizen may follow in mind, while maintaining the stability of the country as a whole." He paused, took a deep breath, and continued. "My proposal is thus; I represent one such of those paths. While we have no qualms with the way you rule, or the fact that you have the divine mandate at all, me and many others wish to follow a path that you simply cannot give. It is the path of an 'Imperial Republic.'" He knew better than to stop, and continued onward. "An Imperial Republic is much more complex than the name suggests; even as it stands, the name is contradictory, no? Well, we have found a way for it to work..." He reached into his clothing and pulled out a piece of parchment, which- while modernized- bore resemblance to old fashioned parchment. "This piece of parchment that I hold is by far from a declaration of independance, but more along the lines of a declaration of existence. However, the way it is written, it cannot be ordained until it bears your signature. It also does not state where it is that our lands shall exist, and will require your signature and a clause dictated by yourself as to where we shall make our living and our country." He refrained from handing it to her immediately, and continued his lengthy description... "However, as I said, this is far from a declaration if independence. We do not wish sovereignty from Japan, instead we wish to follow our own path, under the tutelage of Japan. It is similar to a social experiment, though truly and inherantly political in nature." "Now, all of the details of how our political structure would work are detailed within this delcaration. However, if you wish, I may explain it to you first, and in more depth than the political jargon."

Arynar had been fiddling with his jacket the whole way there, and was becoming increasingly nervous. Nothing can prepare one for meeting a powerful person, when they know that person could have you killed on the spot with just a movement of their... little toe, for all he knew. His thoughts were getting the better of him, as he pressed the wrinkles of his clothes out. He knew very little of how it was that the Empress would take this proposal. He knew even less about the possibility of him surviving this ordeal. As he stood at the doors that would either lead to his fated demise or his destined salvation, he finished ironing out the last wrinkle in his clothing that he could find. When the doors opened, he took a deep, deep breath, and walked as he let out the breath slowly. He kept his head down, bowed to the floor so as to not make eye contact until spoken to. When he reached the only distance he felt comfortable standing- not too close, not too far- he instantly went down upon his hands and knees, bowing before the greatest person in all of Japan. His entire life was flashing before his eyes, it seemed, every moment that led up to this point. After raising his body just enough to unbuckle his sword, making it all too clear that he was not, in fact, drawing it, he presented it to the Empress with both hands. Laying it upon the floor, he spoke, "Empress, I have a proposal to make. If you find this proposal unfitting of your throne room, your ears, or for any reason at all, you may excersise the Divine Rights given to you, and take my life and destiny." He held his breath as he awaited her reply.

Location: The Imperial Palace, Greater Japanese Empire Time: Roughly mid-day... Arynar Ventys walked up the palace steps, each one increasing his fear, each one furthering his desire to get this over with as quickly as possible. To be frank, while many had business with the Empress in some way, very few managed to actually meet her. They were usually blessed with the guidance of one of her helpers, and from there she made decisions that she saw fit to make. And once again, to be frank, his business could not be decided by anyone but the Empress. His sword was sheathed, attached to his left side on a belt. His hair was tied back, with but a few strands of hair making their way to the sides of his face. And while his clothing was modern, it still held that of the old bushido code. He had used what personal funds he could have gained through work to become presentable towards the Empress, anything less would dishonor him, and her. And while many would say that he was about to dishonor the empress anyway, he had to disagree. His cause was just, as well as pure. He was acting for the people, just as the Empress did. He had reached one of the many checkpoints of the palace. He had made sure to send a notice ahead of time of his reason for visiting, and he hoped that they would not bar his entrance and throw him into the prisons the second he arrived. “Arynar Ventys is my name. I have come to see the Empress. I had sent word ahead of time about my arrival and purpose of visiting.” He held his ground, his arms at his sides and away from his blade.