Don Chele
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Posts posted by Don Chele
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[quote name='Manis B' timestamp='1337786114' post='2971127']
Well, if I were threatened by another alliance, I would certainly try to find a way to negotiate asap. Because if they don't it sends 2 messages.
1) They dont care about their members attacking Tetris
2) They will gather support from their friends (kaskus and paragon?) and they'll "out bully" the "bully"
Certainly they could just write it of as nothing, but are they supposed to just let PROIS attack them over and over again and just take it? "Well, they dont have leadership, lol" is not an excuse. Tetris has offered them peaceful options, and still offers them a peaceful way out. Any international interference is just unneeded escalation.
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Why can't you understand that this was not a member of PROIS, but a ghost. NATO has made that clear, and a simple check of the war and aid screens (totally reasonable steps to expect) would have confirmed that. PROIS did nothing wrong except to take longer than 24 hours to respond. Tetris's own membership is apparently taking that long to respond to the call to arms. I can't imagine why people think this is anything other than a facepalm by Tetris. -
[quote name='Sir Humphrey' timestamp='1337756098' post='2970964']
Uh, yeah, there was no need to declare on PRIS for this, as they are hardly responsible for the actions of a ghost. We were already at war with the rogue in question when he attacked NATO as a None, and he subsequently switched to ghosting PRIS 4 days ago. If you follow the money trail, you will actually find quite a neat little scam, which I would be happy to show you if you want to query me.
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This flies in the face of the information received from Tetris's HOURS of efforts to resolve this matter. -
[quote name='Tank4ever' timestamp='1337755217' post='2970950']
What fun?? We have like 20 nations in range. Which are all less than 2-3 months old.
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Emphasizing the pointlessness of the decision. Not only is it not fun for you, it is amusing that the nearly half of your alliance that you think is too young to effectively contribute is older and more numerous than your opponent. -
[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1337751206' post='2970903']
Hey now, noobs tend to be noobs for a reason
You say that as if we wouldn't be flexible. Had he replied saying they can't pay that, we would have been more than happy to work something out.
The responses in here amaze me. Do you people not realize there are alliances with raid rules that allow harsher treatment than what we are doing?
@Jaiar: Oh yeah, I forgot I didn't approach the leadership! Oh wait...
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I don't like those raid rules either, at least they admit that they are pirates and scalawags. I fail to understand how your time frame allows for you to "be flexible". Reps in 36 hours or your entire alliance dies seems, what what's the opposite of flexible? Not !@#$%y... oh, right: inflexible.
I hope you never happen to have an exam or important meeting on the day someone comes looking to discuss such a matter with Tetris... They might only be "flexible" enough to wait 18 hours before disbanding you... if they have enough noobs to get your bottom half that is. -
[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1337750079' post='2970875']
Nah. It was just ignoring our PMs altogether, and we asked for 50 tech (less than three mil, and not really unreasonable after the repeat attacks/lack of peace etc).
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How much cash do you think most 1200 NS nations have on hand? If you admit that you are just trying to give them a chance to succeed on Bob, then you clearly don't think they have one now and logically cannot think they know how to do everything but run an alliance (like deal tech to have cash on hand).
And really? He ignored your messages for a whole day? What a GRAND offense that must be. Congratulations on attacking a 7000 NS nation because his 1100 NS alliance mate of a couple days rogued you. I'm sure it will teach everyone a lesson about messing with Tetris. Congrats on the awesome blitz? -
There's still time, edit all of your posts to reflect that you are policing an individual rogue!
I know you think that you aren't "disbanding" an alliance (that is literally so small you can't disband them yourselves without help from allies with smaller members) just because you're asking all of the members to surrender individually and go elsewhere, but what is the difference? What was your ultimatum? I can't imagine that it was reasonable, since you admit that they are all tiny and have zero leadership. Just deal with your rogue instead of tacitly inviting raiders to do your work for you over what was probably more a reaction to a vulgar PM response than the actual rogue. -
[quote name='Redneck' timestamp='1337234871' post='2968499']
to much reading to do. any relation to the movie? seriously,its my favorite movie of all time,and im not even joking!
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Yes: our soul-mate left us for a hot young bullfighter, but we're ok with it because we're artsy, wine-drinking expats. (Also: movie? Really?) -
What's next? VE merges into GGA?
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[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1337228554' post='2968425']
Emperor Brehon, as you can see in Post 8, wanted similar clarification. I never implied Red Dawn was weak. I implied now and previously in another thread that those supporting the third candidate were lazy in not working for the seat by helping send out messages. You were or are being given a seat without working for it. Cooperation to me would be you (Red Dawn) taking a load off some Pacificans and help send out similar messages to red nations. Save the "we don't have the programmers" to create bulk lists, I heard it already. Anyways, I do wish Red Dawn well despite our differing opinions on how the Senate seat should be earned.
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You don't read well or carefully. In that other conversation Schatt made clear that we do have the ability to send the messages, but that Pacificans prefer to receive the message from one of their own. Go stir up trouble elsewhere, none exists here. -
[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1337227553' post='2968413']
Very nice, grats to you guys and here is a o/ for you moving it forward.
Point of clarity because its a bit ambiguous, is it your intention to work with the one senate seat or work together with your own list of people. I ask due to this particular line:
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Thank you for the congrats Brehon. To clarify our ambiguous language, we intend to vote as a bloc to put forward a candidate of our unanimous choosing. We also intend to continue to unanimously support the two chosen NPO candidates. Of course, we agree with you that should circumstances change in our cordial relations, then both Red Dawn and Pacifica will have to re-evaluate the senate voting. By the numbers, that won't change much so I am not sure what the fuss is about regarding the senate.
Red Dawn wishes Pacifica the best, and hopes to re-form a close partnership in the future. -
[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335253816' post='2958419']
How exactly?
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I articulated my point poorly. I mean you have changed mentality from your days as "evil architect of DH-NPO" to being a promoter of removing the current power structure. Your members and your newly merged partners have similarly shed whatever pasts they may have to join your resistance. Bal Masque is proof that it is not [i]entirely[/i] impossible to convince people change is good, progress is just slow and/or sporadic. -
[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335252228' post='2958410']
I'm not saying that's not possible, I'm just saying I don't see it as realistic unless people don't want to be second-string alliances and assert themselves as you're saying.
In many cases, alliances simply want to be there. If the mentality doesn't change, you can't get what you want.
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The mentality has changed for you and Bal Masque and its membership, has it not? Isn't that the whole point of this thread? I think one more alliance seeing things our way and wanting change is always a good thing, as long as you want change and not just changeover. -
[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335251030' post='2958402']
Everyone assumed that was the case with Umbrella when it's only really been the case for the past maybe 9 months?
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I for one am curious to see how MK deals with having two hats now, what with TOP cozy-ing up to Everything.Must.Die now. Who will be the fancy Sunday hat? Who will be the everyday suncap? Will MK have to find new mudboots now that their current pair has proven leaky? Only time will tell...
Seriously though, installing a soft power is a fool's errand. You could install NSO and they would manage to stop failing out of the sheer momentum of power. The only cure for the system is to obliterate the web and re-create a multi-polar world (shout out to the '06 color wars). The only way for that to happen is for those who are every bit as strong as the current power alliances (or much more so, if we count GOONS as a "power" alliance) to grow a pair and assert themselves. We don't want someone in charge, we want lots of people not in charge fighting each other bare-knuckle and 1 v 1. Curbstomps are for cowards and are the inevitable result of the current treaty web structure. -
[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335250306' post='2958397']
Now, having an especially dominant political force can be avoided if enough people are willing to do their own thing. I don't see this as very likely as the mentality a lot of people have is "we just want to be left alone and we'll let someone else be in command of politics." As long as most people don't want to be in command of their own destiny, there will be an especially dominant political force.
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If you accept that then what's wrong with this one?
Pacifica was removed to do what, install MK? So you want to remove MK to install whom? Where does that get anyone, used by a new master who can carve off non-core neo-neo-hegemony alliances for the next target? You don't like the people in power, that's apparent. Stop acting like you don't like the play though, if all you want to do is change the actors. -
[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335249751' post='2958392']
I mean, I was called naive before for not stating what I believe will or should take place in the event of a power vacuum. There will always be a dominant political force and unless everyone limited themselves to like one or two treaties, there's no avoiding it. Those who should have influence are those who are able to provide for the benefit of as many as possible.
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By that logic, the current hegemony is just fine. They are treatied one way or another to like, 2/3 of the planet. Just ask yourself when analyzing why one cannot attack GOONS first as the focal point of any strategy. That guarantee of being on the winning side seems like a pretty good benefit to "as many as possible". I personally think it makes a lot of those benefiting from it survivalist shills, but you seem to be suggesting that they do exactly the same thing, just for a different master with whom you haven't had an individual falling out. I'm not sure how that is logically any better for those of us who dislike the structure, not the master. -
[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335249209' post='2958387']
There has been a hegemony of [s]ideology[/s] and brute force and there's been the [s]cool[/s] [b]brute force[/b] kind. I advocate a different one.
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You still advocate a hegemony though, your roots are showing. -
[quote name='Lanore' timestamp='1335247864' post='2958373']
Going from " Malevolent Sociopathy and Cynicism " to " Bold Pragmatism" is amazing.
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Don't you see? The best way to gain allies is to tell them openly that you will support them for as long as they are useful to you. Then, nobody can ever accuse you of being a survivalist or hypocrite later, because everyone knew going in that it was only a relationship of convenience. Like a marriage for insurance or financial aid purposes. -
[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335247372' post='2958367']
That tends to happen, yes, so don't be dependent on a "patron". Hell, it didn't really take much for me just "communal bonds" being prioritized over self-interest. The lesson is pick successors wisely or else they'll $%&@ up.
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So don't be Machiavellian or do? I'm not sure now. -
[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335245835' post='2958356']
Machiavellian worldviews are the ones the alliances that wield political power(keep wield) in mind operate on. The losers and potential losers of wars frequently aren't machiavellian enough to compete and that's why those who are willing to see the world in Machiavellian terms tend to win.
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You do realize that the Machiavellian exemplar prince from another world, Cesare Borgia, was entirely dependent on support from a power greater than himself, and eventually exiled, imprisoned and killed when that power changed, right? -
Congratulations on 2 million NS and regaining sanction!
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[quote name='sammykhalifa' timestamp='1335199710' post='2957812']
Why's it my responsibility to let potential muggers know that I'm packin' heat?
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I don't think the point is that it's your responsibility. The point is: it is probably a good idea to let them know that you are protected so that they can move on to someone who isn't. It's less hassle for you and less hassle for raiders. This topic isn't really about whether raiding is legitimate as a practice, as far as I read it anyway. It's about how to make the practice less of a hassle for both raiders and protected accidental raid targets, just assuming [i]arguendo[/i] that raiding is simply going to happen regardless of the procedures anyone follows. -
I can certainly see that a small alliance has an incentive to make their protection known, although I wouldn't frame it as an obligation to do so. Both sides of the raiding equation have a risk that they have to assess. I think it is certainly wise to both announce protection and list it in the nation bio of the individual nations, it makes good sense and reduces risk of a potential raid target. I also see that it makes good sense for raiding alliances to do everything they can to assure that their targets are unprotected and I can see how it might be frustrating when an unannounced protection agreement comes up in what looked like a safe raid.
I don't like raiding of AA's however small, but it happens and I can't dictate the policies of raiding alliances. I'm pretty sure, though, that it is a good idea for people on both sides of the raiding debate to try to educate small AAs on what the broadly accepted, or at least widely stated, conventions for who gets raided and who doesn't are. Most raiding alliances have some set of standards that they follow most of the time, and anti-raiding alliances can promote their message better by helping small AAs work within that system than by declaring that system immoral. -
[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1334554744' post='2954141']
You forgot to pledge money.
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I stated my disagreement with this method of displaying middle fingers. My position is surely clear to those with who have read my admittedly very limited number of statements.
[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1334556818' post='2954164']
In essence, the maxim you...
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Read again, breath, don't bother... nvm. You're right, I'm anti-Roq and pro-DH.
Alterego, I admire your mission here, but I will not be pledging any money in this form. I think that there may be other ways to provide the community with hope, and I'd be happy to discuss them in another venue. -
[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1334534810' post='2953970']
Justified by what, exactly? Might makes right? You seem like the type of guy who hits someone, then when hit back, they hold their nose, utterly shocked that someone hit them back. If you're gonna be a raider, at least take notes from past raiders. Handle !@#$ on your own.
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Didn't you hear Sardonic? It doesn't matter! You see an attack on GOONS is an attack on GOONS... that VE and others will clean up for them. They are the victims here. Like any damsel in distress, they have knights in shiny green armor to save them.
Notice of Policing Action
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1337790644' post='2971166']
... face the [b]wrath[/b] of our lower tier...
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[url=http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance%2CReceiving_Alliance&search=Tetris&anyallexact=exact]Give me a !@#$@#$ break. You're mad.[/url]