Kevin Cash
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Posts posted by Kevin Cash
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Are you implying that I'm occasionally suspected of not being an unspeakable evil?
not your name, your title
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either npo is evil and likes to take them out, or alliances tend to get rather $@y when they approach/exceed npo in strength. i tend to lean towards the latter. note that goons was not killed by npo but by polaris, who were actively working to undermine the political position of npo at the time.I've determined that all the squiggily upward sloping lines turn into vertical lines whenever they get near that jaggy red one.How does politics do that?
or you can chalk it up to coincidence, as much as people dont do that, there are only what, three examples of npo or its allies taking out a top alliance (of the 4 examples given), 1 of those (legion) was not a direct attack, and given the even sides in that war as far as ns goes, their fall was more the result of poor strategy both internal and external, more than anything else. also they were fighting fan, who can bring the pain even when they're getting curb stomped.
which gives you two workable data points, fan and gpa. gpa has already been demonstrated to have had inferior growth and was $@y, and fan, well, if you know your history you know why fan 1 occurred, its almost silly to call gpa $@y in the same line. furthermore, we have the outlier of iron, who have been hovering right below npo since forever.
i question whether unspeakable evils title has ever been more appropriate
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in my eyes this shows at least with regards to gpa that it was not a war to 'claim the top spot,' even without whatever incident caused gpas drop before the war, npo was very clearly outpacing gpa by 2 to 1 or better after the formulas switched. simple growth plans would have regained the top spot without pr implications, so there was absolutely no reason for them to declare war as far as the data is concerned.The update will be here shortly, but in the interim I thought I could help out everyone's memories with a nice little chart
Comments?
which leaves politics, gpas many blunders, and admissions to this day by the leaders that they intentionally delayed their response to continuum issues due to un-neutral feelings of dislike.
basically, gpa thought they could use their reputation of neutrality and peace as a tool to do as they please. but thats all politics, which isnt nearly as easy to work with as the raw power held in numbers.
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the lack of gun pron in this thread is disgusting.
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Are you saying Sparta, TOP, and MHA organized this war? Cause that idea made me laugh really hard.
i wouldnt say they organized it, but they were certainly happy to plunge a knife into the backs of their allies in a bid for power.
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fan has by far the biggest pair on 'em out of anyone in this world, and i have nothing but complete respect for them.
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well this is certainly change in cn, but i wouldnt argue that it is for the better.Shout at me like that againand I will personally offer a $3m bounty to any nation that wishes to raid your alliance
heres an idea: lay off the guy. you already badgered himself into not defending his current livelihood, as despicable as that is of you lot to do, but now when he tries to correct your blatant ignorance you start to throw around threats because, holy crap, used ultra big font? the horror
anyone who had the slightest doubt about karmas true nature should be clear on things now. you dont stand for anything at all, its just a mask you use to rally the gullible to your side as you make a bid for power. the fact that you cant feign sincerity before the war is even over speaks volumes about where digiterra is heading.
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Good luck, ARES, and glad to have you here beside us.
Why do people complain about the number of alliances they are facing? You knew what you were going to face when you entered the war.
you mean like the way tfo cried at the start of this war
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ad hominem attacks do nothing to weaken my point; rad is still just as pathetic as they were before you decided to attack my character instead of my argument69 NS, No Alliance, and a big mouth. Looks like someone learned about curbstomp on the receiving end. -
i think its funny that some alliances like rad and tfo have trouble pulling off a curb stomp.
i mean sure its not like karma has had a lot of practice with it, but this should be easy guys. you shouldnt get to the point where youre asking for help from people you dont even have a treaty with. that is just sad
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congrats karma, i am eating my words.
with the exception of the npo, gga was the last alliance i expected to get off with any sort of light terms, and they probably deserved crippling terms more than anyone. to see this... well, it shows that (most of) karma is serious about ending the past cycles of extortion.
im not exactly sure why athens alone got reps in this. in my opinion, demanding reps from anybody besides the primary aggressor (in this case npo) and demanding payments to anyone besides the primary victim (in this case ov) is still extortion, unless there is a detailed reason that these are for a historic crime committed by gga against athens in the past.
im reserving judgment until this war is finally over, but if karma keeps doing things like this, well, perhaps they are serious about change.
or perhaps they're trying to make friends in time for citadel vs superfriends, but only time will tell on that one, won't it
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the ooo you mean? i was under the impression that npo was just acknowledging the fact that polars treachery from the unjust war onwards had rendered it a one-way treatyOr it shouldn't have been signed after NPO cancelled. -
even if you did strong arm loss into granting white peace, i do not think that is such a bad thing. loss should have known better than to demand reps from an innocent alliance, one who was only defending their allies, and whose history is near spotless, much more so than most of karma.Certain Paradoxians needs a bit of humility and courtesy befitting a Knight of the Order beaten into them.Certain non-Paradoxians are uninformed or deliberately malicious, but that's not something that is going to change.
That being said, we do need to clean and polish our armor and weaponry, because it does not shine when soaked in the blood of innocents and stained by the dirt from the battlefield.
thats assuming loss even wanted reps, i am not privy to private conversations, but if they did i think it funny considering that switch they pulled right before the war, that they would further demand reps from the side they abandoned
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nukes are used in tech raids to end the raid and make the nation pay up. i see no difference here. your protectorates bit off more than they could chew by entering this war, they cried to you for help, and then you extorted their opponents.RAD was coming to end the war. I don't care what your reasons were for leaving, or the time frame. RAD was coming to help out our protectorates and I trust they would have been able to seal the deal as soon as they got involved. I told you that RAD was coming as reinforcements to make you rethink your decision of staying for another day or two. Is it worth it to you to do two days more damage to TFO/IS and eat RAD's nukes? I think we both can agree that the decision was no.Letting you know RAD was coming was to your benefit and ours. It prevented TSI from taking unneeded damage, and it prevented TFO and IS from taking unneeded damage. The only loss was for RAD missing out on some war, but I made sure we could get my boys right back in.
EDIT: Regardless, good luck to our brothers at The Forsaken Ones helping us take care of business with Avalon! I couldn't ask for better friends and allies than the crew we got today.
there is zero difference, and your attitude towards tsi in this thread does not incline me to believe otherwise.
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ive been an observer for some time. i need not possess a nation to be an observer. trust me, i am well versed on history.So you weren't here for it, and you know the here and now, so since what I mention is in the past 2 years it must be false?I admit I do not follow your logic. Feel free to peruse the CN wiki, or read about the history of planet Bob and the actions of the players.
so people like the ccc were mistreated by tpf?TPF finds itself at war with multiple alliances not because of their treatment of PC, but of their treatment over all those other alliances, and for their treatment of others in a consistant manner.
no, the reason im not taken seriously by you is because i dont stand behind the karma agenda. make no mistake about that.The Hegemony is on punishment, has been sentenced, and is living out its sentence at this current point in time with a further arraignment at a later date. They are in this situation for their consistant actions over a long time period. It is not just 1 or 2 incidents, it is a consistant pattern of behavior over years. They have treated others much more horribly than they are being treated now, and it is for this reason that you are not being taken seriously.
i know how things work around here, which is why i always found it amusing how much people whine about casus bellis as they rarely if ever are more than a grain of sand in the clockwork of cybernations.Do your homework. Research the past 2 years on the CN wiki. Talk to people who were there, on both sides. Try to get an understanding of what happened, because like in most things, this war didn't just happen for the heck of it. This war happened for a reason. The events of this war didn't occur in a vacuum, event A occured because event B occured as a result of treaty C being cancelled and alliance D getting rolled and ...well you get the picture. Events are interconnected.
half of those now on your side were, right up until this war, a part of the 'hegemony,' will they also be held accountable for their actions, or do they get a free pass for ditching their allies?These alliances find themselves in this war based on their consistant actions over years. They have had a predictable set of behavior, and that is diplomatically isolate an alliance, make up or use a spy to obtain a CB on the alliance, and then hit them, and when their treaty partners come in, hit them too, and in the end make demands that the defending alliances pay the agressors for the damage they took in their agressive war.If you are against Karma's policies, that is fine, however know what Hegemonies policies are as well, so you know who you are defending.
the argument is 'poison clan didnt break the treaty because they broke the treaty.' this argument does not even follow as a logical statement, it contradicts itself, it is nothing less than absurd. clauses like that are included to absolve the other party of obligations should one decide to break their promise and their word.The TPF/PC NAP treaty was a joke, anyone who read the text on the treaty knew it was worthless. As for honoring treaties, Avalon honored their treaty, as did RAD, as did a multitude of alliances on both sides of this war.
i do not support any alliance ditching their allies for any reason. i do not support those past actions nor do i support the dame dishonorable and cowardly acts carried out today. though i will note as far as npo goes, polaris betrayed them and put them in a very tight spot. they clearly made the wrong decision in abandoning their allies, however, it was not a cold calculated decision like most other cases, so i reserve a little bit of judgment towards them specifically.As for not honoring treaties, do you know that MCXA, NATO, NPO, Echelon, IRON, and others on the "Hegemony" side have refused to honor treaties, or outright dropped treaties, with alliances in the exact same manner that Sparta and MHA have acted towards NPO in this war? -
address my points and not the age of my nation pleaseThank you sir, it is much appreciated.And kevin cash, why speak with such profound knowledge about a time you know nothing about and can therefore not put this war into context.
There is a reason for it and maybe if you were older and wiser you would know it.
also try not to contradict yourself in the same line (bolded)
ok ok i promise this is my last post for real.
[ooc]night all dont get too worked up about pretend politics... though knowing how things work round these parts thats not likely to happen
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see now youre just making stuff up as you go. i thought this was about tpf/pc relations, when i call you out, you change the details and claim you were right the whole time. thats bull****It is TPF's treatment of both PC, and a multitude of others, that has brought this upon TPF. This goes beyond TPF/PC bilateral relations.
this is more bull****. 'hegemony' is not perpetuating crimes right now. i could list fan, gato, a host of items from the gga, but it doesnt matter because none of it is the here and now. only this war is here and now, and o i criticize your hypocrisy. you say you stand against injustice yet perpetuate the same injustices as the past. oh, and you might want to take note here that i hardly support every action the 'hegemony' has made. instead of making things up about me.That is not what is making you a hypocrit, what makes you a hypocrit here is that you are ignoring what Hegemony has done, ignored what TPF has done, and instead hold karma and PC to a different, more harsh, set of standards than you do for Hegemony and TPF.
i admit it, i laughed. youve got a great stand up routine here man. honoring treaties! haha!So how is an alliance honoring a treaty here an affront to Karma? If you are upset with the way the treaties in this war chain, you clearly haven't seen some of the more blatant betrayals in the history here.
the actions of every leader of pc from since its inception. thats what im referring to. pc are arrogant and hateful, full of malice and with zero sense of honor. i think it funny that you have yet to directly deny that claim i make.What despicable actions of PC are you referring to?The actions of one member, for one night?
ok now im really going to bed i promise
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i am a hypocrite because i didn't call out past crimes when my nation did not exist? please, give me a break.I am calling him out on hypocricy for his failed attempt at comparing Karma to Hegemony based on the actions in this war.i dont think i can argue with you anymore. debates are fun and all, but it is mighty late to be wasting my time with someone who cannot scrap together a coherent argument for the life of him.
good night.
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so if both sides wanted this, why is it that only tpf are the evil ones here, shouldnt pc be getting an equal amount of scorn in that case?No, the only thing in the way of repairing relations between TPF and PC was TPF and PC. Both sides wanted this, don't kid yourself by believing otherwise.
this intentional misinterpretation of what i said does not even dignify a responseExplain to me what I have said is hypocrisy. Really, I want to hear this, because I take great effort in not being hypocratic.
youll have to explain to me what you mean by 'nocb war' im sorry i dont speak karmite. though i do think it funny that in the same breath you state that there was 'no cb' and then that 'polar had it coming for a long time'BLEU was led by Polaris, however you are also forgetting Echelon, MCXA, NV, and a few other alliances (sorry to forget your names now, its late).And I did not cry when Polaris got hers. The NpO had it coming for a long time, the only thing I spoke out against in that front of the NoCB war was that NATO, MCXA, Echelon, and NPO all betraying Polaris and not standing with her in her hour of need.
im sorry that i cannot travel back in time to when my nation did not exist, so i can whine and complain about these events for you. i must be a hypocrite for that.You still don't know who you are talking with. I have spoken out against these unjust acts for the past 2 years, while you are calling Karma hypocrits for doing nothing at all similar to what the Hegemony has done. I've lived through this, you are acting as if you read this in some history book.You fail your history exam, but I hear theres a retake after school.
Innocents?
Clearly you have not had the pleasure of hearing the Hegemonies party line over the past 2 years.
"Alliances as a whole are responsible for the actions of their leaders". The NPO and Continuum condemned the GPA to an all out blitz based on Valid, the then President of the GPA's, actions towards Dilber of the NPO. The GPA was finally released from terms about a year after they had surrendered.
Countless alliances have been hit by Hegemony forces for the actions of a few. GATO got hit by One Vision because at one point since GW2 GATO had accepted Chris Kaos into their ranks. He had been gone from CN for months before the NPO found out, yet the actions of a few people in the government in GATO condemned the entire alliance to warfare from the entire One Vision bloc.
Care to tell me where your outrage was when these events were occuring?
i speak out against the karma hypocrisies because the karma hypocrisies are happening right now. im not sure what is so difficult to understand about that, but apparently, something is.Oh wait, you only speak out against "Karma", and compare what Karma is doing, with their white peace and lenient surrender terms, to what the Hegemony has done, which was extort alliances for tech, hold them under surrender terms for close to a year, install foreign Viceroys, hold grudges for 2 years, betray alliances, and issue growth crippling surrender terms.So ...how is what Karma is doing anything at all to what the Hegemony has done?
Explain this, because your simply aren't getting it.
my friend, it is you who are not getting it. i am posting about pc and their protectorates, and their conduct during this war, and how it is appalling that karma, who tout themselves as the bringers of light in this world, stand idle and watch if not support the despicable actions of pc and others during this war. this is not about hegemony, as much as you would like it to be. this is about pc. now stop dodging my points, or you may force me to look up the latin phrase for whatever logical fallacy you are using. and nobody wants that.
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here's a crazy theory, but maybe, just maybe, it was in response to the continual arrogance and blind malice shown by poison clan?Perhaps you didn't participate in it, but much of your alliance did.
if the gov does not expel a member they are supporting the actions of said member. and yes, it is true that a leaders actions are the same as those of his alliance. so, tell me, what exactly is the huge crime tpf is being charged with here? not allowing themselves to be treated like crap by pc? trying to improve relations? oh, the horror. i heard that slayer got a bunch of folks off pzi, and even went to bat for fan... what shameful actions by tpf.And you and yours have always stated that the alliance is responsible for the actions of their leaders as well as their members. I've seen alliances rolled because of a perceived slight from a gov official, and the refusal of alliances to expelling a member over a perceived slight.
i enjoyed the way you left out the trivial little fact that the people doing the attacks were the leadership of goons.That is why I support PC in this whole heartedly. The logic your side has spouted over the past 2 years is being applied to you, and we are holding your entire alliance responsible for what some have done. Just like how TPF held the entire GOONS responsible for what some GOONS did. -
pretty much just blatant lies in the above quote. the only thing in the way of improved relations between pc and tpf was pc's arrogance.Don't support Poison Clan's actions?Why wouldn't they? PC is rolling TPF and PC's allies are rolling Avalon.
PC has also called TPF out on the crap that TPF tried to pull, and has been pulling, on PC for the past year.
TPF has had this coming, thus they are hit by forces fighting under the side that "Karma" is on. TPF brought this upon herself by treating PC a certain way. Now that the boot is on the other foot, TPF doesn't seem to like being treated this way at all.
forgive me for calling you out on your hypocrisy?And for some reason, people like you are coming out of the woodwork saying "oh evil karma, why must you make alliances that initiative an offensive war which has broken out into a huge global war, why must you make the side that started, that initiated hostilities, surrender with anything more than white peace? I mean even though Hegemony alliances have issued a lot of harsh surrender terms in the past, how dare Karma do it".
bleu was led by polaris, and if memory serves right, you all cried and moaned when they got rolled for their crimes. funny thing, that. its almost like youre willing to make friends with whoever winds up on your side, no matter how tainted their history. which only reinforces my point about poison clan.Where was your outrage when Hegemony was doing this?Where was your outrage over BLEU rolling NADC based in "evidence" that they refused to share with the public CN forums, or anyone not in BLEU?
Where was your outrage over the NoCB war, and over the Infra>Friends side's reps?
Where was your outrage over the NPO telling GATO nations in peace mode that if they aren't out in 3/5 days (forget which it was) that they will face perma ZI?
so two wrongs make right... no, even that tired phrase doesnt fit... what youre doing is harming one group of innocents because in the past a group you dont like harmed another set of innocents, and you somehow think it is justified. its like if i shot an innocent man on the street, and you pulled out your gun and shot another innocent man to somehow punish me. in reality, you are being pathetic, and even with the massive nation strength advantage held by karma, a number of you are even yet grasping for straws to put together some sort of weak argument to demonstrate how it is ok for poison clan to be as arrogant and blindly hateful as they are.Learn your history, boy, and that should tell you which side has issued the harshest surrender terms on alliances who have enterred wars solely because they were honoring treaties. -
do you know what the phrase 'unwarranted self importance' means?The Phoenix Federation will get what it deserves for spending over a year with a sole goal of destroying our alliance.true, you have always been an alliance that was defined by its arrogance and malice, but if you think that tpf dropped everything for an entire year just to crush you... wow, i just dont know what to say.
if you want my honest opinion, tpf should have wiped you out when they had the chance. your alliance doesnt have a single redeeming quality, and you have contributed nothing of any value whatsoever to the world, except maybe one day you might be useful for target practice. they were far too merciful to grant you any sort of terms at all.
and you repaid that mercy with this arrogance and hatred, and a knife in the back.
karma, make me eat my words, show this classless scum that you do stand for change and that you won't tolerate this crap. show that youre not a coalition of convenience and you truly believe in what you say.
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dead serious right now, if karma is worth anything at all, you are going to get rolled after this war, possibly even before its over.Good lord, you need to roll that hard six.Let a few more protectorates die while you're at it, will you?
of course it wont happen, karmas tag lines and battle cries are just words of convenience, when it comes down to it you can be the biggest arrogant, malignant slimeball on the face of the planet, but as long as you stand next to karma they're more than happy to pat you on the back and tell you you have honor.
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this is correct, poison clan broke the treaty by ignoring this clause and attacking tpf.Article 3: CancellationEither Party may cancel this agreement. Once one party notifies the other with their intent to cancel, the Pact stays in effect for 10 days. If either party breaks the pact, it is considered null and void.
what i think is incredibly amusing is the argument that 'poison clan didnt break the treaty because they broke the treaty'
i mean, seriously?
[/ooc]
Cyber Nations Alliance Statistics Depot
in Open World RP
Posted
besides that minor point, it was more-so directed at those claiming 'hey look npo kills all the big alliances' as if that is the only explanation for the pattern seen, which consists of merely 4 data points over a three year span. the stats are indeed cherry-picked as it does not include other major alliances for comparison purposes, again, notably, iron.
please expand it, as critical as i sound, seeing three years of data plotted is incredible, and i commend your work, but still ask that more be included.